If you're doing a lot of Mission Architect stuff, the lead often picks things that are as easy as possible. In those cases, a tank brings less to the team than another scrapper or controller.
Get on a team doing something challenging, and a tank is nice to have. Still not necessary...no AT is necessary in this game, but good to have. A buffed scrapper can absolutely take the alpha, but few can hold aggro well, and against hard stuff you want that.
That's probably farming teams, they fight easy crap and just want to defeat them as fast as possible, no survivability needed. I'd be thankful not to be invited to such teams. Most teams still prefer to have one Tanker. Heck, most teams take anything that comes along.
I feel I should point out that your duo is very suboptimal. A SD/SS tanker surrounded by mobs and with double stacked Rage (common scenario) is already above the damage cap. A Kinetic helps you very little. I suggest a secondary that deals high base damage with few damage buffs instead.
I find it laughable they are turning down a SD/SS for a scrapper. I cannot imagine a run of the mill scrapper outdamaging that combo by very much, particularly since it has a kin in tow.
Taking It On the Chin I-16 Tanker Guide
Repeat Offenders
Cool, I'll try and keep away from the MA. We're getting to the task force levels so hopefully things'll open up a bit. I don't see many group shouts at the moment outside of special missions and AE stuff....
She likes her controller and I'm not too picky, the CC on Mind is great heh. She puts a whole group down and in a few levels I'll just move in and clear it all out I figure. Maybe rad would have been more useful as a secondary but we're havin plenty of fun so far.
She originally wanted to go Storm which seemed kinda messy since it would split groups up.
It sounds like you are just running into the type of people that are not for you, playstyle-wise. Don't get discouraged, you'll find what you're looking for if you keep at it. 
"I never said thank you." - Lt. Gordon
"And you'll never have to." - the Dark Knight
Playing a scrapper...
I could never say no to a tank on the team...
If they're turning down an SD/SS Tanker for a Scrapper, then they don't have a clue what they're doing. That's it.
Look around for global channels on your server that are more in line with the sorts of things you want to do. I know Justice server has a couple of popular global channels for badge hunters, Hamidon and Rikti ship raids, and Trial/TF teams, as well as channels pretty much dedicated to PLing/farming.
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I just came back to CoX to play with my wife because she always really enjoyed the game. She is playing a Mind/Kinetics Controller and I'm playing a Shields/SS tank since I wanted to play something new and different from what was there the last time I played.
So we started joining groups in the teens and there is usually an immediate grumble since we join as a pair (They want her for kinetics). The general feeling seems to be that they don't want any tanks in the group at all, they would rather have another controller or a scrapper, I guess the general view now is the scrapper can tank just as well due to the high kill speed and the defense difference is negligible.
Is this the norm now? Because if I'm gonna be dealing with alot of players giving me a hard time just cause of my AT I would like to know now so I can switch out early because it is really ruining my gameplay experience at the moment. I've always enjoyed playing tank classes just to be a meatshield and knockdown based character but I could do the same thing as a scrapper too and all I really lose is taunt....
I'm at a loss. Tankers used to be incredibly necessary as anyone else seemed to get killed really fast trying to deal with AVs. Now I just feel unwanted and unwelcome in groups and it is making the game very unfun.
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Wait till you hit your 20s and beyond. You'll be asked to group more then your wife.
In the teens (and I hate to say this) Tankers just don't shine well ... almost to the point we feel we're being carried. This all changes however and quickly as your defenses start to mature in the 20s, and teams start watching their Scrappers wilt under heavier alphas and/or prelonged fights that require agro control.
I will say that the tandem you guys have picked isn't the best from a synergy point of view (confuses and power increases with capped power (eventually) requiring a close concentration of mobs) *but* Kinetics will always be valuable in a team setting and a Tanker will always be valuable in a team setting. Also, you can both cover eachother's weak points well (so not a disasterly combination by any means).
Reading your post got me to thinking, short of running a TF I don't see many requests for a tanker. Now granted the team composition has alot to do with it also. Get a bunch of trollers together and they'll generally scoff at inviting a "pure" Tanker. Get a group of blasters and it's heals and a tank.
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Reading your post got me to thinking, short of running a TF I don't see many requests for a tanker. Now granted the team composition has alot to do with it also. Get a bunch of trollers together and they'll generally scoff at inviting a "pure" Tanker. Get a group of blasters and it's heals and a tank.
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True, a multi-troller group doesn't need a Tanker. My Ice/Rad and Ill/Kin Trollers both can replace a Tanker in most group situations.
However when I log on my Trollers it can sometimes be painful how long it takes me to get a group. On any one of my Tankers (save my weee ones in their teens) the moment I log on I get asked to join a team (from strangers no less).
Now there have been times where I've hung out on my Tanker and did missions while waiting for a team and there are times my Trollers have been picked up right away. Go figger.
My Scrappers tend to be very hit or miss.
My Blaster is still picketing outside of Atlas City Hall bemoaning the smoke grenade fix of 4 years ago 
Out of all my many alts, the tanks by far get the most blind invites followed by the defenders.
Taking It On the Chin I-16 Tanker Guide
Repeat Offenders
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Wait till you hit your 20s and beyond. You'll be asked to group more then your wife.
In the teens (and I hate to say this) Tankers just don't shine well ... almost to the point we feel we're being carried.
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Yes, I have to agree with Kruunch on this. It does sometimes feel like Tanks are being carried through the lower levels, however, that does change dramatically once you hit SO range.
"I never said thank you." - Lt. Gordon
"And you'll never have to." - the Dark Knight
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Cool, I'll try and keep away from the MA.
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Just be careful not to throw out the baby with the bathwater. I've been playing quite a few MA story arcs (both solo and with friends), and there is some truly exceptional stuff in there, as well as a lot of very good story arcs.
In short, while you may want to stay away from MA farm teams, you also don't want to deprive yourself of the opportunity of mining the MA for a lot of good alternate content.
And on a more general note, you will find that a lot of groups have different preconceptions as to how "best" play the game. That can go both for and against certain ATs. Some people like tankers, some don't. Others go all nuts over scrankers. Some players adore FF defenders, others consider them a waste of a team slot. Some people think Stormies are the best thing since sliced bread, others hate them with a fiery passion. And so forth. In the end, of course, it's largely prejudice.
Ideally, you want to play with those folks who understand that more often than not it's the player behind the character who matters and not the AT or powerset of the character. Even if you're thinking purely in terms of potential XP/hour, the extra time you need to get a minmaxed team together is likely costing you more than you can gain once you've got your perfect team together.
My experience is that it is very level dependent. Low level tankers are... well, not that good. As they level up this change and once they reach level 22, now having both stamina and access to SOs, the Tanker becomes an invaluable member of the team.
The main issue I have found with the tanker is when there's multiple tankers in a group. The tanker has one role in a team, being a meat shield. There's only really a need for one of those (perhaps two if you fight large mobs and there's more mobs than one tankers aggro can handle). Scrappers and Blasters provide damage and more damage is always nice. And the Controllers and Defenders are a diverse bunch, so the more of those you have the better. This means that if a team already have a tanker, they'll not be interested in a second.
If you've been running MA missions with PuGs there is another explanation for it.
Thanks to the broken PL farms that were getting characters from 1-50 in 2 days (or less) there are a lot of people with high level characters that don't know what they're doing in the slightest.
It could be a case of these people having had bad experiences with tanks that think they're scrappers and don't understand what their job is. And if the people you're teaming with are new as well that may have led to the (mistaken) belief that all tanks suck and are useless on teams.
I only have one tank currently, a Shield/DM, and I am the first to admit that I am not that good at agro management, but at least I know what I'm supposed to be doing, which is more than some can say. I have seen so many Invuln tanks in the 40's over the past couple weeks that only have the passives and all the attacks, and no taunt or taunt aura.
I have also run across people who told me that my claws/regen and BS/DA scrappers are gimped because they can't farm as good as a spines/fire (which I also have)
Short version: Some people are idiots. If you are a competent tank you will find teams of non-idiots that will appreciate your contribution.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
Like has been mentioned before, by the time you're running perma-rage, AAO in big groups, have Footstomp and Shield Charge (plus all the recharge and damage buffs from the /Kin) you'll be doing Scrapper level damage. I run with my SD/SS all the time on TF's and Farms and he destroys everything. Once you get to the ancillary power pools and add in Fireball, your AoE potential is on par or above any Scrapper set in terms of AoE.
Yeah as I'm coming up to the late teens now things are getting a bit better. Theres definitely some prejudice against the newer players (even though I'm not really new, just out of date) right now probably a result of the massive powerlevelling that went on. I'm seeing alot of low level groups still trying to powerlevel but I guess it was changed enough that it is kind of hard to do again now.
I guess what was probably giving me issues was that the teams were probably looking to do low level AE and thats why they wanted my wife to join whereas I don't get my AE until the mid 20s so having me get dragged along is kind of a waste. I found some good people though after zone hopping a bunch to do radio missions and TFs so that made me feel alot better.
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Playing a scrapper...
I could never say no to a tank on the team...
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I'd normally say the same...until I ran on a lvl 20-ish team running the midnighter arc the other day. Inv/* Tank didn't have his status protection. But he did have both the flight and speed power pools and I believe he had 3 of the 4 powers in each pool. I thought something was bugged when I saw him flopping around...until I looked at his powers. 
50 Inv/SS Tank, 50 Inv/EM Tank, 50 FA/SS Tank, 50 Shield/SS Tank, 50 WP/SS Tank, 50 Dark/Dark Tank, 50 EM/Elec Brute, 50 SS/FA Brute, 50 SS/SR Brute, 50 Fire/Kin Controller, 50 Plant/Storm Controller, 50 Earth/Therm Controller, 50 Necro/Dark MM, 50 Bots/FF MM, 50 Elec/SD Scrapper, 50 Arch/MM Blaster, 50 Emp/Psi Defender
<QR>
I very rarely play a tank but love it when a good tank is on the team! I dont think this is the norm for most content, probably just some farm teams.
Shenanigans
LotD - JaL - POWT/SMD - SoCo - AJs
I agree with the earlier posts about the level range. I normally end up soloing or playing primarily with SG buddies from 1-20 just because you are pretty weak as a tank overall. You don't really have the slots or enhancements to make your defense/resistance all that great and your offense is laughable until it gets slotted up. I love tanks, but in the early levels we just don't bring a lot to the table.
You won't have that problem in the later levels though. I have a SG mate who is Shields/SS at lvl 50 and he can do some ridiculous things with that toon. I still think Shield Charge is the coolest attack in the game.
Coming back out of the woodwork after a couple years away from the game...
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Playing a scrapper...
I could never say no to a tank on the team...
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I'd normally say the same...until I ran on a lvl 20-ish team running the midnighter arc the other day. Inv/* Tank didn't have his status protection. But he did have both the flight and speed power pools and I believe he had 3 of the 4 powers in each pool.
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But, in this case, that would be "saying no to a knucklehead on the team..."
Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
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Yeah as I'm coming up to the late teens now things are getting a bit better. Theres definitely some prejudice against the newer players (even though I'm not really new, just out of date) right now probably a result of the massive powerlevelling that went on. I'm seeing alot of low level groups still trying to powerlevel but I guess it was changed enough that it is kind of hard to do again now.
I guess what was probably giving me issues was that the teams were probably looking to do low level AE and thats why they wanted my wife to join whereas I don't get my AE until the mid 20s so having me get dragged along is kind of a waste. I found some good people though after zone hopping a bunch to do radio missions and TFs so that made me feel alot better.
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Yeah the Meow farms brought up a lot of players quickly in the first couple of weeks of I14. Like you, most of them were returning players, giddy at the thought of hitting L50 in less then a week.
The prejudice against these types of players has always been around by the more veteran crews in the game and on these boards. Right or wrong most forget what it was like when they were nubbies and didn't have every percentage memorized.
You'll be fine.
P.S. - In general I tend to use MAs for farm teams (which still can power level you btw, just not as fast as those original Meow farms) and run full groups for normal mission arcs and radios. MAs (as content) tend to get a little annoying when trying to wade through all the crap to find the couple really neat ones. Mostly it ends up feeling like a waste of time after awhile. Full group radio missions can be fun as heck and fairly easy to form (and fast levelling to boot).
I just came back to CoX to play with my wife because she always really enjoyed the game. She is playing a Mind/Kinetics Controller and I'm playing a Shields/SS tank since I wanted to play something new and different from what was there the last time I played.
So we started joining groups in the teens and there is usually an immediate grumble since we join as a pair (They want her for kinetics). The general feeling seems to be that they don't want any tanks in the group at all, they would rather have another controller or a scrapper, I guess the general view now is the scrapper can tank just as well due to the high kill speed and the defense difference is negligible.
Is this the norm now? Because if I'm gonna be dealing with alot of players giving me a hard time just cause of my AT I would like to know now so I can switch out early because it is really ruining my gameplay experience at the moment. I've always enjoyed playing tank classes just to be a meatshield and knockdown based character but I could do the same thing as a scrapper too and all I really lose is taunt....
I'm at a loss. Tankers used to be incredibly necessary as anyone else seemed to get killed really fast trying to deal with AVs. Now I just feel unwanted and unwelcome in groups and it is making the game very unfun.