Alkirin
-
Posts
103 -
Joined
-
Quote:Well, this isn't particularly difficult. Not artificially inflating prices removes an element responsible for the inflation of prices.Originally Posted by seebs
Not really, unless you have evidence to show that this isn't what would actually happen.
Certainly, in all the cases where we've seen it tried, the actual outcome is exactly what the theory predicts. Prices stabilize, and tend to go lower.
More than one salvage item rests comfortably at high supply and low turnaround in the absence of manipulation (what used to be computer viruses, regenerating flesh, etc). That shouldn't exist by your definition unless there is someone actively working to keep supply high and listed prices low.
Seeing as you're supporting the claim of the OP, you can't accept that either.
QED.
Plenty of common salvage gets flipped for attempted profit on a regular basis. To include circuit boards and ancient bones as of most recently. The fact that any one such case exists, much less multiple cases, denies the claim that I responded to.Quote:Originally Posted by seebs
For common salvage, it effectively is -- there's too much new salvage coming in for that to be a practical strategy.
If you buy out absolutely everything at all below your listing price, you lose money if anyone sells things close to your listing price, due to WW fees.
If you don't, then sales will tend to go to people who decide to sell for 5% under the market price in the hopes of getting a quicker sale.
That is...Unless you have a viable alternative explanation for the variety of cases that don't fit your rules?
Aside from the above criticisms that apply, this is a nice off-hand risk analysis on flipping high traffic items. It doesn't stop people from doing it, people have had varied success at attempting it, and the effect on the average price on the item often persists at the inflated rate for a length of time.Quote:Originally Posted by seebs
See above. And remember, the "net of buy orders" runs into the other half of the "lowest price sells" maxim: Highest bid buys. If you have any bids at 50k, they will ALL fill before any bids at 25k do. Meaning, if you actually want to cover "snipers", your bids all have to be at close to 85%-90% of your listing price -- meaning that you're paying 85%-90% of your listing price to people who were listing at 1 inf.
If you're saying that listing small items as opposed to full stacks of 10 is inefficient, then yes...Though that isn't saying much.Quote:Originally Posted by seebs
Lots of people who aren't using the market actively will just list small bits of stuff, but statistically, they're a smaller effect on the market. Unless they're listing full stacks of 10, they're not going to have the same effect per slot they use that marketers who buy and sell in full stacks do.
If you're saying that every non-marketeer that participates in the market is negligible because they aren't operating at high efficiency, then that is a dubious claim.
Your first problem is using real-world market principles and asserting (nay, insisting ) that the in-game economy is both an accurate model and that it follows all of the same principles and rules.Quote:Originally Posted by seebs
This is simply not true. It's not true in the game, and it's not true in real life. Read about "market makers" in the stock exchanges. That's a fancy word for "flippers", and they're regarded as one of the major tools exchanges have to keep prices comparatively stable.
'It doesn't work like that in real life' is a baseless argument. This isn't the real life economy. I'm sure you sound 'cool' spouting off everything you learned in 101, but sorry to break it to you. This is not the real world economy, despite specific parallels. That is a grand composition fallacy.
It's...Very surprising that this needs to be stated.
See above.Quote:Originally Posted by seebs
Again, they're not forcing an inflated price to begin with. There is no inflated price that they are forcing.
No, there seems to be a discrepancy between what you declare is happening without a shred of evidence, and what actually happens in every market ever studied over the past couple thousand years of written history.
Actually...This is a valid point. Though perhaps not for the reasons you'd think.Quote:Originally Posted by seebs
It's not "flipping" to buy a whole bunch of stuff and then not sell it.
Toward that end, I should declare some terms here.
You guys seem to speak of 'flipping' with regard to a measure of responsibility taken for what you are doing, or an otherwise seemingly benign motive.
When I speak of 'attacking', I refer to a malicious attempt to manipulate prices for it's own sake. Where profit over the long run is irrelevant so long as you tag those few 'must have now' buyers that will pay something obscene.
See above. Another fallacy in asserting that real-world principles hold across the board in a fictional MMO economy.Quote:Originally Posted by seebs
NASDAQ. Pretty much every stock exchange ever. Commodities markets -- all of them. The WoW auction house, where you can actually track the effects much more easily. CoH's auction market. Consider Nethergoat's experiment on ancient bones, back when redside was a separate market. Prices were very volatile and tended towards being awfully high. Bring in a flipper for a week or two, and prices stabilized with a lower average.
To call this a naive take on the matter would be an understatement. Either all costs on the market are doomed to average toward absolutely zero, or there are other factors in place. Other factors that, one way or another, render this statement inane.Quote:Originally Posted by seebs
Part of this is simple, basic, mathematics: Every purchase through WW reduces the amount of inf in the market. If you reduce the amount of inf, you necessarily lower prices in the long run. -
Quote:Uhm...I've seen and personally participated in attacks on items, done specifically to do exactly this. Hell, others who have posted in this thread are also guilty of this. Secondly, your reply does not address the statement.Originally Posted by Fulmens
You have no proof that what you see is actually anyone "pinching supply" - in many cases there's a natural explanation which is, at the least, not LESS likely. (Recent example: "Why are alchemical silvers high? Oh, ToTing produces XP but no common salvage." Thread is called "Fess up, who went medieval on AlSil?" )
Now, bear in mind the discrepancy between what I said, and the things you are drawing out of my statement.
What I said: "Pinching supply does inflate the price of an item."
What I did not say: "Supply only falls short when some is attacking it.", or "There are never natural explanations behind the supply of any item falling short."
This...Seems to be a persistent problem throughout the whole of your response.
Forgive me, but...This example, even if taken purely at face value, doesn't 'disprove' anything? Perhaps you should elaborate.Quote:Originally Posted by Fulmens
II. "If flippers stopped attacking items on the market then, yes, the prices for those items would indeed drop, then stabilize." This has been repeatedly disproved. The first public attempt I know of is the Luck Charmers. We dropped several thousand LC's on the market and prices went crazy for several days- from 1000 inf to 100,000 inf or more, whereas previous prices had been stable in a 50-60K band for months. They eventually did stabilize, but I don't think they stabilized at a significantly lower price.
What is "it" in this circumstance? You went an entire paragraph without an antecedent there and I'm not a mind reader.
I concede the point about profit being made in this. I'd argue that it isn't the most efficient of methods, but this discussion is branching out a bit much and this isn't really a central point.Quote:Originally Posted by Fulmens
Because if "it" is flipping, I've made a few billion inf. If "real profit" means "profit in actual 3-dimensional space" then, no, nobody except (one presumes) RMTers have made any real profit off their game money. If "real profit" means "significant amounts of influence" then ... yeah, people have. I bought a purple for 351 million and sold the same item, unchanged, for 600 million last week. I know, 200 million inf is not a lot in the grand scheme of things, but that was only one item, two transactions. I flipped at least a hundred Respec Recipes when I was trying to burn inf in market fees, and I only lost money on about two of those.
You're comparing a lackluster marketeering experiment in an MMO to...Watergate?Quote:Originally Posted by Fulmens
IV. "Lacking this most important element alone cripples any credibility - aside from the other failing points." There are an awful lot of credible reports that are not conducted according to the strict scientific method- Woodward and Bernstein didn't have a control President.
Try that again. -
A few things.
Quote:The buyers do. They are the ones putting the money in to actually move anything. Nothing sells until they do that. The only thing that that 'utility' of yours is noting is that you're consistently listing below what the buyers are willing to pay for those particular items. No greater implications there.Originally Posted by seebs
I'm too lazy to do the searches, but I can explain the mechanism.
For the most part, sellers don't really have much effect on prices...
The part in bold actually made me chuckle. In this case, there is a disconnect.Quote:Originally Posted by seebs
So if you take the flipper out of the picture, the remaining items for sale are at higher prices, by definition. You might argue that, hey, the ones they bought would still be there... But that's not usually how supply and demand works. There's a lot more demand for brass at 500 than there is at 10k. Lots of people will buy brass if it's under 5k, but won't buy it if it's over 10k. What that means is that low-priced supply will dry up faster. The same 2000 bars of brass will not stay on the market as long at 500 as they would at 5k, and that means that your chances of finding low-priced stuff aren't great -- it's too likely that it already sold out. (This is why economies with government-defined fixed prices for goods tend to need rationing -- because there's not enough supply to meet the demand at the made-up price.)
Through the scenarios and definitions you have set up, yes, removing flippers would arbitrarily raise prices by default. It would then go to show that the actual market doesn't work through the scenario and definition you have established. It breaks down at this point.
"Because the next sale always goes to the lowest price, no matter how much higher or lower than the bid it is, flippers must list below everyone else to get action."
This assumes that listing low is the only alternative to dealing with the obstacle of low bids, as opposed to simply buying them out to relist at the higher price. I'm actually surprised at this oversight, as you literally listed such a strategy in the preceding paragraph.
The flipper only needs to account for low-ball bids entering the market during the attack. This is easily accomplished by placing a net of buy orders to catch them.
This doesn't account for alot of common salvage listed with few to no bids. In the case of common salvage, not everyone lists toward the sole end of making profit - as opposed to just a better alternative to vendoring.Quote:Originally Posted by seebs
The other component is that a lot of people won't bother listing something if there aren't any bids up.
The flipper only provides 'stability' in the artificial, semi-closed environment erected during an attack. That is, 'stability' at the inflated price that they are forcing. As an after-effect, there tends to be an 'echo', where an item will ride the wave of inflation until eventually lowering to another level.Quote:Originally Posted by seebs
A flipper provides a steady supply of bids, usually at a rate above what vendors will pay for an item, which means that if you have one or two of some salvage you don't need, there's buyers -- you can list and sell immediately. If there's no buyers, listing chews up one of your WW slots, so you are better off going to a vendor. (Doesn't matter that you might think you could get more from WW -- slots are more valuable than inf!)
That tends to mean that there's a lot more supply, which is being listed in stacks of 10, which means more supply per WW slot. More supply, more stability.
There seems to be a discrepancy between how you describe this hypothesis on flipping, and the actual effect of that kind of manipulation on the market.
As recently as the notable attack on Alchemical Silver, there are many past and still-persisting examples of how flipping only serves to inflate prices where they otherwise would be lower.
I would like for you, or anyone for that matter, to provide an example case where any kind of flipping has lowered and stabilized prices on an item.
Don't worry, I won't hold my breath. -
Quote:I let other people waste the effort, then just piggyback from my stores. :POriginally Posted by Nethergoat
the absence of flippers increases volatility in several ways, all of which I've explained in many previous threads over the years.
I'd suggest flipping something for a while.
it's cheap, easy and provides a helpful primer on market forces, plus its way more entertaining than a lecture from me.
=P
Though, do me the favor and at least link to one of those 'many previous threads'. -_-; Because, honestly, I'm failing to see how this kind of activity stabilizes anything. I'll grant benefit of the doubt, though. I want to hear this. -
Quote:Alchemical Silver would still be going for 500k+ if that weren't the case. I'd like to see the case where prices consistently continued to inflate after being spiked. Enlighten me.Originally Posted by Nethergoat
That's pretty much the opposite of what actually happens.
There's two main points there for you to contend (counterpoints to A and C). I'm not sure that counts as 'alot' for some people, but YMMV.Quote:Originally Posted by Fulmens
My, that's a lot of unsupported statements, Alkirin.
In many cases, my experience suggests that you're wrong.
On a petty note, "wastes a lot of time and effort" is the usual phrasing. If you actually meant "wastes a lot of time IN effort" I apologize for my high-handed tone.
I went through all of the effort to actually state a case against what I disagreed with. At least spare me that courtesy.
Also, yeah, I distinguish between time and effort. Some things are hard to do, but don't take much time. Some things are easy to do and take forever. -
I believe that I've had this discussion with you in-game about this. I'll say the same thing here that I told you there.
None of what you've done establishes anything related to your claims about flippers and the effect that flipping has on the economy. I'll tackle the specific claims made in this recent post though.
"The fact is (and this is fact, documented here on these forums for you to paruse) that people are regularly coming here blaming flippers for the following:
a) Manipulating prices
b) Putting things for sale beyond the reach of the casual player
c) Asserting that if flippers left things alone that prices would drop
d) Asserting (oddly enough) that all of the multitudes of data collected on this very subject and its impact on the specific item don't actually warrant any merit for all of the reasons you claim. "
a.) Pinching supply does inflate the price of an item. This is seen on a regular basis. Nothing in your experiment addresses this, only your failure to spontaneously produce an opposing effect.
b.) This is somewhat dubious, as people have radically different ideas of what the 'casual player' is and who the 'majority of players' are. At best, it can be stated that prices are easily inflated to the point that they are impractical to buy.
c.) If flippers stopped attacking items on the market then, yes, the prices for those items would indeed drop, then stabilize.
d.) There are a variety of reasons that this experiment doesn't establish or conclude much, mostly in your failure to attempt a control, having only a single variable, then (worst of all) assuming inerrancy. One of the most significant points in publishing any experiment is listing possible issues, accounting for known and possible errors, then stating the evidence and scenarios that would invalidate the conclusions. Lacking this most important element alone cripples any credibility - aside from the other failing points.
----------------
Now, that being said. I've a few points of my own to make.
1.) There are too many far more significant issues with this market to claim that flippers alone are single-handedly ruining anything.
Oh, it's annoying, yeah. But that's the whole of what it is at it's worst. A nuisance that passes in time. There's no real profit made off of it, it wastes alot of time in effort, and from what I can tell, it's mostly just a result of people with too much money and too much time. Or angsty people who think they're 'cool' contributing to some kind of 'anarchy'.
Regardless, the worst they accomplish is a temporary effect (talking months in some cases, but still).
2.) For the people that take serious issue with what flippers are doing to common salvage:
Architect Missions are your friend.
- Run 1000 ticket farm.
- Roll common salvage (1/6 chance to get exactly what you're looking for, 8 tickets each. Given how easy tickets are racked up, even 80 is a small price to pay for uncommons that you don't need more than a few of)
- Dump rest on market or store in SG supply for rainy day.
- Spot flippers spiking random items on market, piggyback using stored excess.
- PROFIT. -
I've seen some trickling over, but the most of the SoA I've seen are still Villain for one reason or another.
Helpful that there are plenty of active SoA groups to boot. -
My SoA is on Virtue.
I can say, from experience, that precious few VEATS actually skip the leadership abilities. Some, like me, DO take them a bit late in the build. In my case, I took defensive a bit early, but went with Leadership, Assault, Pool Maneuvers, and Pool Assault in one big splurge near level 30. -
Quote:A reward system? I don't think that the PvP IOs need to be tiered or anything. Better to start small...Something as small as badges/titles or even costume pieces, where they might not be the best solution, would be easier to implement and would draw an interest toward at least participating in PvP.Originally Posted by Lolblaws
That said, I don't think any reward system would help pull pve'ers into pvp anymore. Pre i13 where the two systems were essentially the same (just one was on speed and awesome) a solid reward system could have had the potential to get pve'ers away from static and mindless spawns. But the new ruleset is so divergent from pve that you really have to want to pvp in the first place to be willing to take on learning it. That greatly reduces the chance of pve to pvp conversions.
The important thing about a reward system in PvP is that it needs to offer a reward that doesn't scale the strength of the toon. People who are at the top tier of PvP need to hold those positions within a community by merit of their skill - not because they gamed the system to farm the best gear and abuse a clear advantage as a result of it.
The rewards need to be something fun and light that reward players for participating without punishing or crippling people for losing, or for simply being new to it.
Additionally...The outlook of a few with respect to PvP should be reconsidered. This game wasn't sold on PvP, this game isn't supported by PvP, this game isn't going to die by PvP. Doomsaying over PvP is silly, and I doubt it will be taken seriously.
There -is- growth potential in this game's PvP, however. As far as faction conflict is concerned, CoX has a number of unique elements that can spawn serious growth if they are encouraged and developed. That is where the focus should be, I think. -
Hmm...Might seem odd as I'm still relatively new coming into this.
Though it's been a few years, one thing that I noticed is that there are a few of these issues that have actually been addressed. Granted, progress is a bit slower than any of us would like it to be...But it's a sense of hope, even if it is a naive one at that. -
Yikes. Surveillance gets nerfed to hell in PvP or something (or I'm thinking maybe 20% isn't so great against the generally reduced scale in PvP)?
Didn't think I'd want to keep both Shatter and Shatter Armor if I'm primarily staying at range. -
With three extra powers in this build? I'd probably go with Acrobatics, TT: Assault, and probably Grant Invisibility as that would stack with Cloak on the rest of my team.
-
I'm only recently getting into PvP in this game, but I can say from experience in other games that a reward system done wrong is an easy way to ruin it.
So long as PvP is reasonably balanced and there is a place for factions to fight...People will gladly walk out and kick each other's ***** for the sake of it.
I think there is an important element lost when PvP is rendered down to just a slightly more complex means of grinding for 'phat lewt'. -
Wanted advice on this build, made mostly for Zone PvP in a group of at least 1-2 other people. I don't think it would solo all too well, and I don't plan to Arena much. 35 Mag should resist Levitate, at least. Though, even breaking 41 won't protect from a fully KB slotted power push, I think. If you squeeze the jumping pool down earlier in the build and drop something else (or if you're a 60 month vet), you can pick up Acrobatics at 50 for extra protection.
Credit to macskull, as I was mostly furrowing over his builds while trying to find a way to squeeze in Tactics (I'd like to rock at the one thing Banes do well). Dropped Invisibility pool, Phase shift, and Shatter to pick up Surveillance and Tactics. I'll be using the temp shift instead.
From what I can tell, it might be a bit pricey mostly because of the two LotG recharges and the miracle. However, it manages 60% defense and pretty high regeneration/recovery.
I was tempted to slot the GSFC into Build Up, so I could Build Up while I Build Up...But I'm unsure if that adds up to 5% chance to go SSJ or if it would just be wasted.
Open to thoughts.
Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.81
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
NobsPvP: Level 50 Natural Arachnos Soldier
Primary Power Set: Bane Spider Soldier
Secondary Power Set: Bane Spider Training
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Leaping
Ancillary Pool: Mace Mastery
Villain Profile:
Level 1: Mace Beam- (A) Kinetic Crash - Damage/Knockback
- (3) Kinetic Crash - Accuracy/Knockback
- (3) Kinetic Crash - Recharge/Endurance
- (7) Kinetic Crash - Recharge/Knockback
- (13) Kinetic Crash - Damage/Endurance/Knockback
- (13) Kinetic Crash - Accuracy/Damage/Knockback
- (A) Steadfast Protection - Knockback Protection
- (15) Titanium Coating - Resistance
- (17) Titanium Coating - Resistance/Endurance
- (34) Titanium Coating - Resistance/Endurance/Recharge
- (A) Steadfast Protection - Resistance/Endurance
- (9) Steadfast Protection - Resistance/+Def 3%
- (9) Steadfast Protection - Knockback Protection
- (A) Karma - Knockback Protection
- (5) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance
- (5) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Recharge
- (7) Luck of the Gambler - Defense
- (17) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed
- (A) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - To Hit Buff
- (48) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - To Hit Buff/Recharge
- (48) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - To Hit Buff/Recharge/Endurance
- (48) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - Recharge/Endurance
- (50) Rectified Reticle - Increased Perception
- (A) Endurance Reduction IO
- (A) Recharge Reduction IO
- (11) Recharge Reduction IO
- (11) Recharge Reduction IO
- (A) Devastation - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge
- (19) Devastation - Damage/Recharge
- (19) Devastation - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
- (40) Devastation - Chance of Hold
- (42) Decimation - Chance of Build Up
- (42) Achilles' Heel - Chance for Res Debuff
- (A) Blessing of the Zephyr - Knockback Reduction (4 points)
- (15) Blessing of the Zephyr - Run Speed, Jump, Flight Speed, Range
- (A) Jumping IO
- (A) Numina's Convalescence - +Regeneration/+Recovery
- (23) Numina's Convalescence - Heal
- (23) Numina's Convalescence - Heal/Endurance
- (25) Miracle - +Recovery
- (27) Miracle - Heal
- (36) Miracle - Heal/Endurance
- (A) Performance Shifter - EndMod/Accuracy
- (21) Performance Shifter - EndMod/Recharge
- (21) Performance Shifter - EndMod
- (25) Performance Shifter - Chance for +End
- (A) Run Speed IO
- (A) Karma - Knockback Protection
- (27) Luck of the Gambler - Defense
- (37) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed
- (A) Endurance Reduction IO
- (A) Touch of Lady Grey - Defense Debuff
- (29) Touch of Lady Grey - Defense Debuff/Recharge
- (29) Touch of Lady Grey - Defense Debuff/Recharge/Endurance
- (34) Touch of Lady Grey - Defense Debuff/Endurance
- (34) Achilles' Heel - Chance for Res Debuff
- (A) Karma - Knockback Protection
- (31) Red Fortune - Defense/Recharge
- (31) Red Fortune - Endurance/Recharge
- (31) Red Fortune - Defense/Endurance/Recharge
- (36) Red Fortune - Defense
- (37) Red Fortune - Defense/Endurance
- (A) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - To Hit Buff
- (33) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - To Hit Buff/Recharge
- (33) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - To Hit Buff/Recharge/Endurance
- (33) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - Recharge/Endurance
- (36) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - To Hit Buff/Endurance
- (37) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - Chance for Build Up
- (A) Basilisk's Gaze - Accuracy/Hold
- (39) Basilisk's Gaze - Accuracy/Recharge
- (39) Basilisk's Gaze - Recharge/Hold
- (39) Basilisk's Gaze - Endurance/Recharge/Hold
- (40) Basilisk's Gaze - Accuracy/Endurance/Recharge/Hold
- (40) Basilisk's Gaze - Chance for Recharge Slow
- (A) Recharge Reduction IO
- (A) Trap of the Hunter - Accuracy/Recharge
- (42) Trap of the Hunter - Endurance/Immobilize
- (43) Trap of the Hunter - Accuracy/Endurance
- (43) Trap of the Hunter - Immobilize/Accuracy
- (43) Trap of the Hunter - Accuracy/Immobilize/Recharge
- (46) Trap of the Hunter - Chance of Damage(Lethal)
- (A) Mako's Bite - Accuracy/Damage
- (45) Mako's Bite - Damage/Endurance
- (45) Mako's Bite - Damage/Recharge
- (45) Mako's Bite - Accuracy/Endurance/Recharge
- (46) Mako's Bite - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge
- (46) Mako's Bite - Chance of Damage(Lethal)
- (A) Blessing of the Zephyr - Run Speed, Jump, Flight Speed, Range/Endurance
- (50) Blessing of the Zephyr - Knockback Reduction (4 points)
- (A) Blessing of the Zephyr - Knockback Reduction (4 points)
- (50) Blessing of the Zephyr - Run Speed, Jump, Flight Speed, Range
Level 1: Brawl- (A) Recharge Reduction IO
- (A) Run Speed IO
- (A) Healing IO
Level 4: Ninja Run
------------
------------
Set Bonus Totals:- 10.5% DamageBuff(Smashing)
- 10.5% DamageBuff(Lethal)
- 10.5% DamageBuff(Fire)
- 10.5% DamageBuff(Cold)
- 10.5% DamageBuff(Energy)
- 10.5% DamageBuff(Negative)
- 10.5% DamageBuff(Toxic)
- 10.5% DamageBuff(Psionic)
- 4.25% Defense(Smashing)
- 4.25% Defense(Lethal)
- 4.25% Defense(Fire)
- 4.25% Defense(Cold)
- 12.06% Defense(Energy)
- 12.06% Defense(Negative)
- 3% Defense(Psionic)
- 5.5% Defense(Melee)
- 17.38% Defense(Ranged)
- 5.5% Defense(AoE)
- 18% Enhancement(Accuracy)
- 35% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
- 5% Enhancement(Immobilize)
- 15% FlySpeed
- 200.79 HP (18.75%) HitPoints
- 15% JumpHeight
- 15% JumpSpeed
- Knockback (Mag -35)
- Knockup (Mag -35)
- MezResist(Confused) 5%
- MezResist(Held) 11.05%
- MezResist(Immobilize) 10.5%
- MezResist(Sleep) 7.2%
- MezResist(Stun) 5%
- MezResist(Terrorized) 5%
- 20% Perception
- 16% (0.281 End/sec) Recovery
- 68% (3.649 HP/sec) Regeneration
- 2.5% Resistance(Smashing)
- 1.26% Resistance(Fire)
- 1.26% Resistance(Cold)
- 18% RunSpeed
Code:| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build | |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |MxDz;1446;733;1466;HEX;| |78DA9D93494F535114C7EFEBC0A373A174601E0A42C156BA7358185434289092021| |A35364FFAA44F9BB6E9ABC6593F802B4DC0899D0C6E54361AC58D3B352E9DF563B8| |7057CF704BC4A52FE9FFF77AEE19EE3BE7DE898B07DC42DCDC2B94D0FEBC669A999| |1B236972B14CD4CBA98CF1A7A599DD42AE7CB5A5E9D2C9E36531752AA10A2EF5F27| |33B14F2BE89974C9C8EAE59AB16FBAAC1905A3309F39A465E7F5CA56A7DA62C3582| |1A797F54225517BF1A58AC57C625CD7C0CDCC192527FD4F97743DEBA6D78346A5A0| |9BA6BBE6578234A1D1923197981D1D99CE4C68733A8859D1CB9722B0DB18FC1CA2F| |654EDE2B24588A4B05C615C23D45D25B8AF336E109EB82040A128AB88C04BBBF026| |145CF10F12BAE384E7E0A7B09F4509915F7D98C1512FC0C1CA0E36EB6F81269B9F4| |26D0D84BA264E1B2460593BEFD6667F445BD9B1CC5861AC12924B8080688499A89C| |5DA8DD02577AD4DA37572D8E213239B7C003EA920D71AD92A97199B142E85F23C41| |E02FA45EC0D558A425A0F47299E9FB407EF77EE1FACF8E41E7C0314AA82A9814DF6| |8659FAB0D00C638A1039AC60EE9631427494500F5101D9F3C002E56EBAC3B84D882| |C125EC3EE83B260304E059F82292CC710E62EB7705F7BB9AF01C8DD2C639AB951CF| |20A655B6BAF52D656E7BC7784FE8FEC0E006BC04F776F94DED5CA2C345B93BDC0C0| |F21EAE5BA4EC2064475CAA84E9E6717CFB38BE7D9C5F38CAE117A1F13D621AA478E| |A8E7A3056B6DFBC4F8CCF842E8FFCAF846F0E3FDE428D1C7B3FE65156240261A58A| |01DC51609837719F718F709F107847518F4908C1A3A4389B6CF33720C83103FCB38| |4708418B13F284247EF029E58312869561B932CCA6249F9D36DBE6E5E4924931FEB| |789A79BB2C9BB0826A5974C476C9BF7B3EA800FB7F2F2FF3EAFDCB5A28E2927681A| |6506E528CA3194E32827504EA29C42C9A0543736A37D3B715FBB5076A3EC4109E26| |06EA1A78AF7CE85E246F1A078517C287E94004A0BCA124AF50FEE7803A1| |-------------------------------------------------------------------|
-
I kinda pride myself on being an SoA who is well and happy working in Arachnos.
Operative Nobel was just generic Wolf Spider Huntsman who got attached to someone that eventually 'disappeared' hero-side. I took him rogue just so that he can RP in paragon as an undercover agent in Longbow while searching for what happened to them. -
Yes. It gives your pets a chance to trigger buildup. Worth varies on where it is slotted.
Heard good things about demonlings. Grave Knights are where Necro would want them for sure. -
For the record, Dark Servant is semi-perma with just a couple of recharges also (dead time of a few seconds). Depends on whether the set bonus is worth another power to you.
To amend my first response, I must have overlooked Dark Servant. I had thought it wasn't in there, lol. -
Quote:1 is annoying, but you can fix that by adjusting the prompt threshold.Originally Posted by gameboy1234
Now if only:
1. My pets didn't die whenever I'm side-kicked down and I exit or enter a mission.
2. My pets didn't die whenever I'm side-kicked up and I level up.
3. My pets didn't die whenever I'm side-kicked up or down and the team leader or mission owner levels up.
2 isn't something I hit. I usually just resummon to get them at the correct level.
3? 3 has caused some embarrassing situations, lol. -
Hard for me to say. I suppose Your Mileage May Vary with it, but a few things...
Gloom is quirky. Some people forego the personal attacks in favor of more utility as you won't be doing too much with it, though it's understandable that plenty are simply not comfortable having no personal attack of any kind.
Hasten, I never understood. The only things that would require any kind of serious recharge are Dark Servant (which you didn't take), and soul extraction which can perma on 3 recharges. Unless you're gunning for +3s or +4s, there isn't anything you'd need to stack Fearsome Stare and Tar Pit on either.
Hover or Combat Jumping would serve better for the defense and immunities they grant, I think. Even moreso with both Fly and Super Jump having a bit more utility than Super Speed, especially in the Isles. Especially if you have Ninja Run.
Adjusted Targeting is worth taking to full, in my opinion. 5% global recharge and 7.5% resistance are nothing to scoff at. Look at what the numbers are for Assault with two EndRdx on it. The second is only a measure of a couple of points, which likely isn't worth a slot on it.
My two cents. -
Quote:That's not the problem. The problem is when the minions go 'Derp' when issued certain commands in specific circumstances.Originally Posted by Nalrok_AthZim
So why is the easy way not being mentioned?
If a mob is under a form of control/Mez, and your pets stop attacking... Why are you choosing not to press the Attack command button? He's mezzed! Kick him while he's down! Seriously, explain that one to me because it doesn't make sense.
Specifically, either not going into BG mode at all or not responding to threats while in BG mode. It's less of a deal on normal play, but as you press +2 and +3 mobs, that window for AI quirks shrinks quickly. -
Provoke and Hasten on Necro/Dark? Wat?
Firstly, BG mode is a good safety net. Between the buggy AI and all manner of other things that go wrong, ontop of the lackluster performance of zombies as much more than an HP shield...Necro is NOT the set to be tankerminding in.
Hasten? For what?
3 Recharges in Soul Extraction gives you a perma-pet at the expense of trashing a pet.
2 Recharges gives a near permanent Dark Servant (minus a few seconds).
Necro/Dark has the slots to spare.
Fearsome Stare is a staple of /Dark. It can lock down entire groups of enemies, and a full set of Nightmare (easy, cheap I/O set for fear) grants good range, recharge, and duration that will allow a precious few seconds of OVERLAP.
Basilisk's Gaze is...A personal taste thing. Some never use it, others swear by it's ability to lock down a troublesome mob or an anchor for Darkest Night (which stacks with Fearsome Stare to flatline to-hit).
Howling Twilight is another staple of /Dark. The question isn't whether to take it, but WHEN to take it. Some take it early around the mid-20's, I personally opted for the 30's. A single recharge cuts the time to 2 minutes. That's the duration of 2 tar patches. Yes, it's worth it. Yes, 2 minutes makes it a viable offensive tool for the pure amount of awesome it sends at enemies. Yes, it makes the perfect panic button when you have alot of mobs that you need locked down immediately.
Life Drain is never worth it on /Dark. Even in PvP.
Tactics isn't a waste. Having tactics means you only need to slot one accuracy on each of your pets for good measure. However, unless yo really want the IO bonuses or plan on taking on +2 or higher (or like fighting CoT alot), you don't need heavy slots in it.
My two cents. -
Seems to struggle a bit with...What, to be particular?
You'll soon (if not already) hit your second lieutenant minion (which will round off your damage) and the Lich will add some much-appreciated control shortly down the line.
Post the build you're using? -
I actually used my Zombies as a pet set mule. Mileage may vary with that though.
Slotting will depend mostly on whether or not you have Tactics.
Remember, your Zombies are spawning at 2 levels below you. They already take severe penalties to their To-Hit (50% standard against other enemies at your level). If you have Tactics, slot it to high hell, then put one acc on Zombies for good measure.
You'll want to aim for 1.60+ base accuracy on your zombies. When you get into set IOs, aim for global accuracy.
Additionally, as poster above stated, the Aura IOs are very helpful if you plan on using your Zombies as anything more than BG fodder. -
Quote:Derp.Originally Posted by Tired Angel
Just as a note - you can't take Tactics until you have taken Assault or Manuevers. So I would suggest Assault and then Tactics.
Yeah...Whoops.
Ouch. I'd have thrown the -Res in your Lich. He does all of your AoEing. The reason why it's popular in the Thugs Lt's is because of their AoE attacks.Quote:Originally Posted by GGG247
Good to know. I'm up to level 22 now and he's rolling along nicely. I got an Achilles Heel -Res proc during a fight and slotted it in Grave Knight, and it makes a nice difference when it goes off.
Gloom is still slotted with 1 Acc 1 Rechg. Should I slot for damage next, or just to-hit debuffs? I usually click on my Zombies to attack and then hit Gloom to soften up the enemy as they move in.
For Necro: Zombies do general debuffing, Grave Knights deal your damage, Lich has all of your controls.
With this in mind, I want to double-back on my earlier statement regarding Zombie slotting. I had another Derp moment...and while it isn't a BIG deal, it may be worth slotting one or two Hit Debuffs in your Zombies.
Gloom should have 1 Acc PERIOD. Don't slot that power. Gloom is only suitable for filler attacks or because some just don't like not having an attack on their MM. All in all, it's not worth anything more than it's debuff. Slot one acc, one debuff, call it a night. -
Not sure if it's mentioned already, but Venom Grenade is worth taking. Yes, it causes redraw but so what. Especially since it stacks with Poison Ray, it's a solid means of keeping your DPS up between stealth strikes.