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Posts
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The PvPOs give a recovery bonus, while the Makos give immob resist. While the +recovery may not be worth the price, per-se, the immob resist is truly valueless to an Invuln.
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Agreed. That's the Tribal pattern, and that's been here since day -3.
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Quote:I see a lot of ignorant things said in odd-ball places in the game. I can't say that soft-capping is one of the ones that came up often enough for me to take note of it as a common theme. People have weird notions about powersets that are good or bad, weird notions about tactics and strategy, and weird notions about how powers work (which often factor back into the weird notions about powesets and tactics).I'm not suggesting any validity to the so called "defense myth" but I do disagree with your's and Werner's perception of what the general player base believes about defense and soft capping. I see far too many builds that make what I perceive to be questionable sacrifices in the pursuit of defense soft cap.
In game, I frequently get tells asking how I soft capped my DM/DA and then shock when I explain I'm not. I also see player confused as to why they're soft capped characters is face planting while I'm still alive.
From my perspective, the majority of the player base (not forum posters), do believe defense soft cap is the end all be all of survivability.
I find that the worst misinformed players are so misinformed that breaking out the notion of the soft-cap in discussion with them would be like suddenly discussing Newton's laws to a child awed by their first sight of all the people and shiny lights in a shopping mall. Their lack of knowledge about something like what mitigation is good to build for is rooted in a much more fundamental lack of knowledge about the game.
Note that I never fault people for a lack of knowledge, unless I know for sure they've been around long enough to know better but are making a truly boneheaded assertion. But even for vets, it sometimes depends on what they're asserting - CoH is a pretty simple game compared to some, but the math behind how it works can get quite dense if you drill down into it. I think it's fair for people who aren't interested in getting their arms dirty in that math to have misunderstandings, to a point.
No, the only thing I fault people for is a hard-headed refusal to listen to how things work when what they're bring told is something we think isn't actually controversial any more. Fortunately, it's fairly easy to point them to the community's large repository of game information, which usually contains the more non-controversial game mechanics in multiple places.
People still have to be careful, though. Not too long back I got into an argument with someone who was telling me how Pylons worked in a RWZ raid, and I knew from experience that what they were saying was wrong, but they were armed with misinformation from ParagonWiki. (The "right" one, no less.) That made them very hard to convince that I wasn't some n00b, though eventually enough other people agreed with me that they were convinced. -
Quote:That's an apologist's definition of exploit, and one I categorically dismiss.The difference between an exploit and a valid strategy is developer intent.
An exploit is about undesireable levels of reward per effort or time. I cannot accept that pulling him into the hallway is more time effective than knocking him into the lava or simply DPS-ing him to death with a damage-dealing build. (Did I mention that the lava killed him on its own the one time I knocked him in it? I just had to defeat his bifurcations.)
Closing off innovative solutions to a problem that don't give unreasonable reward comes across as petty, intentions be damned. If it's not giving unreasonable reward, the motivation for doing it is purely conceptual, and it says that their concept for how the encounter should play out trumps player ingenuity. -
Quote:Ditto on both counts.Okay, if you're going to be in 'my camp', we need to ditch the parts I highlighted in yellow. I have NO PROBLEM with the arc as originally designed. I do NOT think it needs an overhaul. I LIKE it.
My only issue is with the change to Trapdoor as it sounds to me like the devs saying, "Play it OUR way. This is the RIGHT way to do it." -
Quote:Link is here.I'm SURE I read in multiple threads where the level 50 rewards were changed as a result of fixing a long term bug, you're convinced that the devs "decided to double the rate that 50s generate inf." (If someone else wants to link that, great. My search-fu is weak tonight and I've wasted more than enough time here.)
While it was a bug fix, I personally feel it was fixed with perhaps a bit too much sense of rote. It wasn't working as intended, but I am not at all sure how it was actually working before they fixed it was actually undesirable. -
Quote:Yeah, that's a really good point. It didn't even sink in that SP is in there. I don't even have that power on my DMs. You should be able to run MG, Smite, SL, Smite with only a small gap while Hasten is up - I was doing that on my DM/Regen with the Spiritual Radial boost and 60% global Recharge. (I19 gave me more recharge, though.)But I really don't know if you really need and/or want Shadow Punch.
Stealing the last two slots from that sounds really good to me. That opens up room for an end mod in Fire Ball, a Panacea, and then possibly:
- A Regen Tissue in Health OR
- A Perf Shifter proc in Stamina
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If you tend to spam Fire Ball, I am pretty sure the end reduction is going to help your net end recovery more than either the Panacea or the PS procs would. Of course, it won't do anything for your regen rate, but if you're able to regularly land Siphon Life, that may be a minor consideration.
It's not nearly as sexy to slot a common end reduction as to slot a ~2B PvPIO, but it might give you the most noticeable benefit.
If you don't spam Fire Ball, then the Panacea probably looks best to me, giving you both some +end and +health. -
Nothing especially helpful. They all sound like good ideas. I think given your stats, I'd probably either grab the Panacea (though I say that without having given the numbers much thought - it just sounds good
) or go for the end reduction in Fire Ball. Adding a 6th slot of end reduction to 5 purples is something I do quite often.
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Kismet in Invincibility does wierd things. Since it won't affect your total # of slots or bonuses, if you keep it I'd move it to some other toggle, perhaps Weave. What happens is that it only goes off when foes are in range of Invincibility (meaning it won't give you benefit for Fireballs at range). Also, last it was tested, which was a few issues back, it scaled with foe rank when placed in Invincibility, meaning it was a larger toHit bonus for under-level foes and a smaller one for higher-level foes.
Basically, bad mojo.
When I respec'd my BS/Inv for I19, I ended up dropping it. The situation's a little different though, since he has Build Up to help penetrate initial defenses and -def on all his attacks. Basically I can stand in the debuff of a +2 Death Mage and sustain a 95% hit chance, so I ditched mine to save a slot. -
When XP/inf exploits land, they tend to make a small percentage of the playerbase immensely wealthy relative to pre-existing prices through direct creation of new inf. That then trickles down through the rest of the players using the market, and inf fees remove 10% of that money every time. But the initial surge still represents short-term price inflation, because these wealthy players often start spending much more than they would have before for items, empowered by the sense that they can earn back what they're spending in a short time.
Even once prices settle on a new equilibrum, those new equilibrium prices will be higher than they were before. For aggregate outflow of inf from fees to match an increased aggregate inf creation, the either the number of transactions per time has to increase or the market prices have to rise to level where the 10% fee can balance the increase. More transactions/time is certainly possible, but higher price/transaction seems more likely to me.
I think what people have been seeing is that we've had a long series of changes that have, in fact, increased this aggregate rate of inf creation. XP smoothing made over-level mobs worth more per kill. IOs sped up the reward/time efficiency of characters. I16 difficulty settings made if far easier for each player to set the game to their optimal reward/time capability. The doubling of inf rewards is a clear doubling on top of all that. Now we have the Alpha Slot and, to some extent, even Inherent Fitness increasing the reward efficiency of existing 50s, and on top of that I19 is probably convincing more people to play 50s more of the time.
Between each of these changes have been relatively short periods between inf production rate shifts. The market may have achieved some degree of equilibrium between each one, but this is almost impossible to see with data players usually have at hand as other factors shifted both supply and demand for specific products around and AE exploits introduced jolts in inf rates of varying size and duration.
The main point, though, is that the total rate of inf creation has been trending upwards for some time. For a fixed market fee rate, that means prices will trend up over time as well. My own contention is that the only negative effect of this, generally, is sticker shock on people who don't want to use the market except as a store, for whatever reason. I think it would be nice if we could avoid that effect, but I don't feel, personally, that avoiding it is worth dramatic change for that sake alone. -
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Quote:That's correct. I do believe, for example, that the attacks in Energy Blast are all flagged Smashing and Energy, which means you get to use good L/S defense against them. About all you could do in a simple table of frequency is just take stock of attacks' damage type flags instead of actual damage dealt. The tables would probably look very similar.In your example, splitting into fire and smashing is useful when considering resistance, but keeping all the damage under fire is useful when considering defense. But defense gets problematic, because aren't some attacks flagged under two different types for defensive purposes, and you get to use the better defense? I'm not thinking of a very good way to account for that in a simple table.
I'm betting it's close enough for government work. I was just curious if it was the table of applied damage type frequency more than concerned the applied damage frequencies were way off of defense type frequencies.Quote:And the damage you actually take just seems like the more commonsense interpretation of the numbers, even if I can't say whether it's the right or wrong interpretation. -
That's actual applied type, right? Like if the attack hits you, that's the type(s) of damage it's likely to apply to you? I ask because, while it's not that common, some attacks have attack type flags (for defense purposes) that don't match up 100% with their applied damage types. My canonical example is Fire Ball, which deals Fire and Smashing damage, but is attack typed only AoE and Fire.
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Quote:IMO, the Honoree has some issues. He's literally invulnerable to several damage types when he pops his version of Unstoppable, and (like many "signature" AVs) he has an incredibly low recharge time on the power once he reaches the HP threshold to use it.LGTF earlier today, 7 players could not take down the Honoree. If we hadn't had an Amy and a Shivan we'd still be in there.
As a result, you can be unable to defeat him unless you've brought the "correct" damage types. But there's nothing to warn of this except experience with the encounter, and you don't find out about it until the very end of the very last mission of the TF.
Honestly, I'm not fond at all of him getting true 100% DR against any damage type, because it makes me feel worthless bringing something on the TF that primarily contributes damage of that type to the encounter. But there's probably nothing inherently broken about it given that external tools do exist for overcoming it. Shivans are a decent example. The problem IMO is that it's not really communicated at all, and lots of players are still being surprised by it after all this time. It's also fairly non-typical in this particular game to have to worry quite so about what sort of damage type is dealt by the characters you invite to a team. Sure, it can matter, but it's rarely a make-or-break the way it can be with the Honoroee. -
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Quote:I think you were mistaken. I spend a lot of time trying to get as many things on me as possible, and the 17 limit is very severely enforced, and affects even ambush AI. If you found a way to exceed it, I'd like to see it.Especially if your solo. Because it still doesn't seem to be true. I know I was getting charged by a LOT more than 17 when doing that damn mission on Alpha.
More than 17 things may have been coming in your direction if ambushes were coming, but no more than 17 would have actually attacked you at once. -
Quote:Ditto this.Personally, I don't see Trapdoor as a challenge and always just beat him down where he stands. But I don't like this change, since it reeks of the devs telling us how to play. We used to get a lot of that and I'm not happy to see it returning.
I have had zero problem with Trapdoor solo. I've defeated him on Scrappers, Brutes, Defenders and Corruptors. Every time I've fought him as a +2 EB and only once did he even come close to defeating me out of seven different variations on the fight. Never once did I use an inspiration to win.*
Despite this, I do not like this change. I do not thank the devs for it. I agree with another post (in another thread) comparing this to the pen-and-paper game master who insists the players solve an encounter "their way" alone. Just because this change has no impact on me does not mean I think it is good.
*I never willingly solo with characters I did not build to be able to solo, and even though I solo ATs that ostensibly are not meant for it, I do so with powersets that facilitate it.
Edit: I just ran it again, and I knocked him into the lava not because I wanted to, but because I have an attack with strong knockback. I actually tried to lead him out, but he stayed down in it. It eventually defeated him without my help at all, while I was trying to get him to leave. -
Quote:The main thing that keeps me from being certain of that is the regular use of the claim that people disagreeing with Bunny are explicitly wrong. This seemingly isn't just about looking at the same math from a different perspective, it's about claims of erroneous conclusions based on the most common ways of looking at the math.Or it might be that Bunny realized both of the things going on in the thread are actually correct, just that the method Bunny is using isn't very practical or applicable to the game. This led to him/her going on with the thread and eventually bailing it because they couldn't win the argument.
I doubt there's a sense of victory, since it's clear pretty much no one agrees with Bunny's argument, at least as best as any of us thinks we know what it was. But I do think there may be a certainty of the rightness of their thinking.Quote:Alternatively they actually think they won, and if that's the case, LOL. -
She seems exceptionally annoying. For some reason you can't even target her. Leading a hostage like this out of caves is fraught with the AI getting stuck repeatedly.
It's not really the idea of what was done here that's annoying, it's (a) the reality of the implementation and (b) that there was no patch note.
And I'm sorry, but I'm going to preemptively state anyone who responds to (b) with "but it was an exploit" is full of crap. Stealthing to the end of a map is not an exploit of the sort that calls for the devs to make a change sans patch notes. This isn't the sort of change they've intentionally done that for before, either. I'm guessing it got missed in the patch notes. That's bad, because it's extremely likely no one in beta tested it - why would they? That means no one gave feedback on the wonky hostage AI. -
Quote:There's nothing wrong with impatience, when you can afford it. It's when people are impatient, can't afford to pay the "impatience tax" for what they want right now, and then also complain about that combination of events that there's some looking down the nose at people. Even then, that's usually reserved for the people who carry that one step further - come here and complain its the fault of marketeers that this is the situation they find themselves in.The only thing I want to comment on is the apparent dogma that being impatient is a sin to be punished. "Want it nao!" I probably take that meme from around this forum too seriously but it seems, to me at least, that is is a pejorative when used by most of the posters here. It places bricks in the wall separating people.
The market is these people's friend. The market is a vast boon to such people exactly because the market is asynchronous. You place a bid at a price you can/will pay for something and you go away. Perhaps you go play, perhaps you go log out for a week. The point is that you come back potentially much later. So long as your bid was no so low that everyone else outbid you while you were gone, you will likely have what you bid on.Quote:This is a game, not real life. Some people only have so much time that they can devote to it and have to choose where they put their time.
There is much less "us" in this forum among the regular posters than might appear. Many of us don't actually interact much other than to respond here to the same posts. We can agree about how the market does and doesn't work without actually acting directly to support one another. Hell, some folks in here don't even like one another. We just all have seen many of the same things and come to the same conclusions, often completely independently.Quote:Yes people coming here from outside the local clique often expect too much. I see an Us vs. Them forming. Maybe I am wrong.
What doesn't help is when posters come along and brand anyone who uses the market regularly and/or with a lick of applied knowledge as some sort of greedy evildoers out to screw the little guy. If you want to see people band together, make them all feel mutually persecuted. I'm sure there are some posters around here who will get a kick out of the notion that the market regulars should feel persecuted, but I don't think all the sharp edges around here formed naturally. -
Quote:I'm not sure any but the most uninformed think that. This very thread talks about the ways various forms of mitigation combine to keep you alive.You'd have better luck trying to explain why defense is not the be all/end all of mitigation so many believe, but few want to hear about it.
The reason everyone focuses on defense is because:
- Linear increases in Defense and DR both act as if they are multiplying your HP and regen rate by 1/(1-M) for solving for time-to-defeat, where adding HP or regen rate are linear increases
- Defense is much more readily available than DR in both powers and set bonuses
- Defense also helps avoid many other negative effects, such as mezzes and debuffs
- Defense is not capped at 75% average mitigation the way DR is (edit: meant to add "for most ATs")
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Quote:Ehhh. That's a comparison I don't think I'm especially deserving of. I think I'm usually pretty good at understanding the math and explaining to others, but except for the basic algebraic stuff like a time-to-defeat model, I have rarely come up with a (correct) model for parts of the game on my own. I mostly absorb what folks like Arcanaville, Stargazer or a few others figure out and then use it myself.calling out Uber and Arcana in the same thread?
Even I've never managed that particular feat....GRATZ!
Umbral's probably got a better track record on hard-core game math than I do.
And then there's stuff like Arcanaville coming up with Arcanatime, or validating the streakbreaker through statistical analysis. I'm not just not in that ballpark, I live in a different county. -
Wow. Just wow.
I eagerly await a response to that.
Edit: I'll toss in my own.
Quote:No one said it is. What was said is that the survival benefit of a given amount of regen is multiplied by (the mitigation of) defense.It is trivial to say that overall survival improves when regen and defence improves, but regeneration itself is not being multiplied by defence.
Gaining defense (or DR) that reduces incoming DPS by a factor X has a mathematically identical impact on your time to defeat of having your HP and HP recovery rate multiplied rate by 1/X. -
Quote:I agree, but I also think it's kind of crappy to take away such a basic tactic. Why does the only way to defeat Trapdoor have to be to DPS him down? (I'm including killing his bifurcations there.)I really don't understand how people are having so much trouble with Trapdoor. I soloed him on a Blaster at base difficulty. Inspirations exist for a reason.
I haven't had any problem defeating him, even on squishies. But it seems an odd thing to disallow an alternative approach.
