I honestly hope we haven't given up already. Have you given up?

that is the million dollar question. Word is that they wasnt losing money on it but wanted to refocus on another product (word says Vault is what became of it) and...wait a sec this sounds very familiar.

Originally Posted by mauk2 Evil_Legacy became one of my favorite posters with two words. "Kick Rocks." I laffed so hard. Never change, E_L!

Originally Posted by Paladiamors I love you, I Burnt the Toast!

This. Exactly this.

Also, don't forget:

5. Just move on and find another game. Just because you've been playing video games all your life and CoH is the only MMO you've ever played that does just about everything in a way you enjoy doesn't mean you can't just instantly replace it with another game.

My main form of relaxation is being taken away, but it's okay, because I can console myself knowing that NCSoft is doing whatever they like with their own property without any regard to its customers' wishes!

I should be happy, knowing that I am a powerless gnat who can lose things he enjoys at on the whims of faceless corporations thousands of miles away!

I should be thrilled as I watch as one of the few development studios to actually talk to and care about their players is gutted and scattered to the four winds!

... seriously, what the hell is wrong with some of you people?

You see this is where we differ. I have plenty against NCsoft. If they had of handled this differently (roll out I24, the superpacks, put the game into maintenance mode and get somebody in who could properly focus on keeping the game going and maybe actually growing it out of maintenance mode), I would harbor no ill will towards them. I likely would have bought GW2 to fill in the gap.

They failed.

Originally Posted by Paladiamors I love you, I Burnt the Toast!

That's starting to change too actually. Amazingly we've been getting support from other games. And I think we're going to see more of it, if these kinds of things keep happening. The frontier of the internet is so young though that there's scarcely been any time to define its value beyond a literal sense. But philosophy can't help but become more of a factor as time goes on. And people will start asking the deep questions that will make the whole thing sound like a dialogue from the Matrix or Tron. "What is real?" "You don't have the right to cut the users off."

But comparing CoH to NCsoft's previous slayings is moot. All of those games were in FAR worse shape than CoH was when given the termination order. And whether it was a weak profit or a strong one, it was still a profit. And MMO's being shut down while they're still generating revenue is uncharted territory, and paints a pretty scary picture for the future of the genre.

By the way, the fact that you said NC doesn't care whether we keep buying their products or not, is EXACTLY why I have felt that "voting with your wallet" is a meaningless gesture and does NOT create the balance of power between company and consumer that most pro-capitalists (probably the wrong word to use, because I don't disagree with capitalism, only that it has become more corrupt and 'scroogey' as time has progressed) love to use as a reason why everything is as it should be.

Last I checked I dont think they are forcing anything besides taking, as you said, their cake back.

That would mean it's probably time to go find your own cake if you dont like people having control of what they own.

If you think everything else is poop, then that is your personal problem and not NCsoft. Yes there are plenty of other games out there but there isnt another COX. You dont need COX anymore than you need cake to survive, normally. But if it is to the point where there is a feeling of life and death if you dont get your fix of "chocolate cake" and a company have no right to decide what products they make or continue to keep making, then either you might need to seek help, or learn to make your own so you can have it without having worry about people taking it.

Dont worry, word on the street is that Plan Z is on the way so looks like you wont have to worry about NCSoft at least taking their stuff back.

Originally Posted by mauk2 Evil_Legacy became one of my favorite posters with two words. "Kick Rocks." I laffed so hard. Never change, E_L!

"The graveyards are full of indispensable men"

Look around not only will you find MMOs that do what CoH did but better, you will be truly upset at how our devs were copying the least fun parts of other MMOs.

Originally Posted by Paladiamors I love you, I Burnt the Toast!

Originally Posted by Paladiamors I love you, I Burnt the Toast!

Heh, this reminds me of an episode of Boston Legal that really intrigued me. An old couple sued a television station because all the shows targeted the teens demographic and there was no entertainment for them.

It sounds petty, but seriously think about it. What ever happened to niche marketing? It used to be a good thing, and now it magically isn't. In the most obvious example, nobody can make a low-pop MMO now even though what is now a low-pop MMO was top dog 10 years ago and highly profitable. This is bad, bad, BAD, for anyone but who always becomes the target demographic: the gullible young crowd. Why should everyone else have to be told, "you get nothing but what is crap to you because all we care about is the demographic that is easiest to string along"? This is how smart sci-fi has almost become extinct and now can usually just be described as soap operas in the future/space. Entertainment is telling you, "You're not in the largest demographic, so you don't like poop? Too bad. You either eat the poop, or starve, because the only people who matter to us are the poop eaters."

Ah you see. You said that those other games, because they were in far worse shape and nothign wrong with them shutting down. Lats I remember Tabula RAsa was generating a profit, small one, but as you said still profit. I bet those players was hurt when they game went but over here, it seems not much emotion for those games, but people that dont show emotion for this game is a (word of the week) robot now. Yet even now, it's not about the termination happening to other games that is bother some. It's just the fact that it's happening to THIS game or as some people put it YOUR game that it's bother some. I bet some at more profitable games say that this game had it coming because it's in worse shape than their game and so on.

But will change come? Time will tell. I think some people think companies only care about money but there is something else that rarely mentioned that many loves sometimes mroe than money. Power. Usually these two things go hand in hand. Want to change buisness? Easy stop voting for pro-corporation people into law making positions. But unfortunately people are attracted to money and power as leaders. They put on a suit, ran a big buisness, that means they are fit to be a politician. Why do laws tend to favor big buisness? You think the marketing budget is huge? Its small in most corporations compared to their political funds budget that go to politicians and or lobbyists.

Just as many people can feel the pain for loss of this game but seem to have hard time feeling the same way for other games is the way many politicians that have buisnesses, friends that run buisnesses feel compared to the plight of the people that are customers and want more for their money.

As someone said, they would not exist without us. Looks like we created a monster then. And sometimes monsters are not as easy to kill as they are to make.

Originally Posted by mauk2 Evil_Legacy became one of my favorite posters with two words. "Kick Rocks." I laffed so hard. Never change, E_L!

I'm confident my wanting to know more about NCSoft's reason(s) for "sunsetting" City of Heroes is NOT so that I have more to argue about.

Originally Posted by Paladiamors I love you, I Burnt the Toast!

Corrupt capitalism would be not maximizing profit to those who think acting in the name of profit justifies anything.

And for people who claim to be dispassionate and logical, you've already won, the game is dead, why are you still here?

Yeah I noticed this beyond the gaming world. Even though sometimes companies see their mistakes and realize that the niche was not as small as they thought, like the Camaro. When it was first killed off, there was no intentions on bringing it back because GM said that car filled only a niche market. Ford was filled with joy. Then the Mustang sale soared, it got a retro look, and GM starting looking and saying "God dang it what have we done." Thus the retro styled Camaro came to light and they spent big bucks to make up for lost ground and for them it works. For others not so much. I think about all the stuff that have come and gone now to be replaced wit hstuff more "generic" but hugely popular. Everything from car designs, clothes, shoes, tv shows, movies, even food.

One one hand it's maximizing profits on the other hand it makes it bland. But hey, seems that is what people want or at least enough of them want it that they dotn have to worry about the people that dont. Just like when Cadillac killed the Eldorado. There have been customers that (most now are highly pissed and said they wont buy another GM product) been buying Eldos. every year since the 70s. Niche market. DTS-niche car, replaced with something that is barely has more room than a CTS. Smooth ride in most new cars-niche. People like the feel of every bump inthe road accordign to car makers. Car designs that look like it had any thought process-Niche market. People apparently want cars that look like a giant insect or like a run of the mill Civic (Talking about that blasted C-CLass that looks like the Civic). Shows where people are not acting like a plum fool on tv-niche. Hey people love Snookie and them house wives.

Originally Posted by mauk2 Evil_Legacy became one of my favorite posters with two words. "Kick Rocks." I laffed so hard. Never change, E_L!

Originally Posted by Paladiamors I love you, I Burnt the Toast!

These boards were the most amusing part of the game for me during its existence. Playing spot the astroturf was always fun. I can even congratulate myself on spotting Arcanaville as co opted and paid for post I14. I still have to wonder about some if they were community manager sock puppets or just random lunatics.

Yep as usual, I just play the game unti lthey take it back and never put money/time that I will miss into something that I do not actually own .

Originally Posted by mauk2 Evil_Legacy became one of my favorite posters with two words. "Kick Rocks." I laffed so hard. Never change, E_L!

Hmmm. Interesting post, Tim. 1. how did the Boston Legal episode turn out? I assume the elderly couple lost/had no case. (Sounds like a frivilous lawsuit to my layman's ears.) and 2. I had a funny image of the Entertainment Industry dressed as Marie Antionette saying "Let them eat poop!" Not exactly enticing, and no doubt the reason why I find comparatively little on television worth watching or even in the movie house.

Originally Posted by Paladiamors I love you, I Burnt the Toast!

Well if that was the case, then sorry, I was mistaken. But everything I heard about Tabula at the end was that it was very much in the red.

However, the scary thing about profiting games still shuttering is, if you can at least assume that the game will continue while it's profiting, then you can contribute to keeping that game alive. If there's some unknown profit percentage for each company that may suddenly get more greedy for a number we can only guess at, then we lose the feeling that we are 'supporting the game', and that isn't good for the morale of a community.

Oh yeah, I'm fully aware of what's going on in the political ivory towers. Even there, we've seen a bit of a shocker in the past week though. The unthinkable happened. The 'businessman' wasn't given the king's seat despite the financial noose that has been slowly being tightened around everyone's necks. Whether or not that is the main reason is open to tons of debate, which we definitely shouldn't go onto a tangent about, but between that and the Occupy rant fest, it MIGHT be a sign that people are finally getting fed up with it.

This empathy for other games is more of the change I was referring to originally. Not a change across the entire business landscape. I don't know exactly what it is, but something about this shutdown has made an unusual impact. I wouldn't say it rocked the internet, but it was at least a ripple that everyone felt, and that's more than what usually happens. It's not a great change, but it's a first step. The eyes of the gaming world have been opened, at least a little.

Originally Posted by Paladiamors I love you, I Burnt the Toast!

Here's what I want:

• Full character customization, with looks not tied to powers. (Granted, I can think of a few other games off the top of my head that do this, but only a very few)
• The ability to play villains
• A lot of different character abilities, and a lot of different variations of those abilities. (i.e., if I want to have lightning powers, then I should be able to shoot lightning, or use it as armor, or use it to lock down enemies, or use it in melee, with a full powerset for each of those options. If my only choice is "shoot lightning with maybe one hold thrown in", then that doesn't satisfy the requirement)
• Little to no grinding. I expect some, sure (even CoH wasn't without its grindy bits), but it should be short-term grinding. I should be able to grind out short-term goals (a badge, for example) in an hour or two. In one game I've literally been trying to get one piece of equipment for months, and I still don't have all the ingredients to craft it, and there's still seven other pieces in the set with just as many ingredients each. I'm looking at years of grinding for one equipment set, which will be too low level for me by the time I get the whole thing. I don't want to grind that long, sorry.
• A feasible solo path. I should be able to get to the level cap in a reasonable amount of time (a couple of months, at most) without ever teaming if I don't want to. I should also be able to get most equipment (or the equivalent) solo fairly quickly (i.e., not the year-long grind mentioned above) and easily.
• Dozens of character slots to satisfy my altitis. I like to make at least one of each character class, and often multiples of each class if they have different build possibilities. I rarely have just one "main character".
• A game that doesn't abruptly stop at the level cap (and, for that matter, a game that doesn't abruptly start at the level cap). I want to be regularly gaining new powers and new ways to play from the moment I create a new character until way past the level cap. Endgame rewards should give me new powers, not just tiny stat boosts.
• Primarily an older and more mature community, not kids screaming "LTPUNOOB" every five seconds.
• No reliance on the "Holy Trinity"; no class should ever be required.
• As a follow-up to that, a game where "support class" means a class with heavy emphasis on buffs, debuffs, and mezzes, not where it's nothing but healing.
• Difficulty selection that goes down, not just up. The "default" game should be average, and I should be able to turn it down if I'm using a character that doesn't solo well.
• A story on an epic scale. I want to be facing world-shattering and even universe-shattering threats, and I want the various NPCs to acknowledge that. I've played games where the only "reward" for completing a dungeon and beating a difficult boss is to be insulted by the NPC at the end, and I'm not interested.
• Frequent updates from an excited and communicative development team, with that communication being a two-way street. The team will listen to and implement ideas from the community (or at least explain why they can't or won't).
• Oh, and lets not forget: a game that will actually run at full speed on my old low-end Mac laptop, the way CoH did. This one is not optional. If it won't run on my computer, it doesn't matter what features it has.

Those are just some of the things that attracted me to CoH and kept me playing (not even a full list; I removed items to keep this post from getting even longer), and those are the things I've been specifically looking for in a "replacement".

So what miracle game am I missing that does all of those, or even a majority of thsoe, "but better"? Because I sure haven't found it yet.

I know nothing will ever be exactly like CoH, but all these cookie-cutter medieval fantasy need-or-greed grindfests aren't even trying.

I think they actually did win that. Though with the way some trials go it isn't completely unsurprising. There are some equally ridiculous things that have gone in favor of the big dog, like the suit against Disney for stealing Finding Nemo from a pre-existing children's book. They brought a huge list of similarities as evidence, and the judge threw the case out on the grounds that Nemo was a different shade of orange.

But as for the Boston Legal case, the couple didn't want financial compensation. They just wanted the station to diversify.