Interview with Zwillinger
By
Brillig,
Posted on: 2012-10-05 18:00 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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What do you consider newsworthy? Where is the bar set?
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Originally Posted by Brillig
Anything newsworthy? Or is it just reminiscing?
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My new Youtube Channel with CoH info
You might know me as FlintEastwood now on Freedom
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Anything new stated that we might not know about already, or anything that really stood out.
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Originally Posted by JayboH
What do you consider newsworthy? Where is the bar set?
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It is good to hear his voice again. Thank you for the links, JayboH.
Xzero45 - It was more an interview with Andy than with Zwillinger, meaning his career overall rather than #SaveCoH news.
I did like the section on how Twitch chats changed the perception about Community Management since players can see and interact with a person instead of just a disembodied forum redname.
On the other hand how Andy kept using past tense to refer to City Of Heroes and the community made me a little sad. I know Andy moved on with his life and that was good for him; but for many CoH is still an is, not a was.
Transcripts or it didn't happen. 
Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound
I'm not going to condense over an hour of content into a few sentences for you guys - come on get real.
My new Youtube Channel with CoH info
You might know me as FlintEastwood now on Freedom
Zwill was a class act. I'll miss him.
@Kyuu
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Agreed - hope he lands somewhere soon.
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Originally Posted by Kyuuen
Zwill was a class act. I'll miss him.
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My new Youtube Channel with CoH info
You might know me as FlintEastwood now on Freedom
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So in other words nothing important happened.
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Originally Posted by JayboH
I'm not going to condense over an hour of content into a few sentences for you guys - come on get real.
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Having listened to the interview, I'd basically say it doesn't have much if you are just interested in CoH related stuff. He's not there to give any news or dish any dirt on that front.
He's there as a veteran community manager, shooting the bull with two other industry people about topics like maintaining a persona online, internet culture, and being a community relations person. Interesting if you like those topics, to hear his perspective, but maybe not that entertaining to a general audience who's only interest in this interview would be his connection to CoH.
The one thing related to Paragon Studios that did make my ears perk up: he did mention what the target audience would have been for the "super secret project". He said they used the catch-phrase "the evolved hardcore gamer" for what they were shooting for in appealing to. He said he was an example of an "evolved hardcore gamer", in that he had that hardcore gaming attitude and background, but now he had wife, kids, job, commitments, etc.
That's an interesting idea, to tailor a game to that market.
I'm a published amateur comic book author: www.ericjohnsoncomics.com
******MA Arcs****
Arc 5909: "Amazon-Avatars"
Arc 6143: "Escalation" (Nominee: Architect Awards, Nominee: Player Awards, and Dev's Choice!)
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Frankly, I took it as his clear explanation of the NC SOFT "going in a different direction" line. It seemed clear to me NC SOFT did not have faith in the super secret project and therefore decided to shut things down now.|
Originally Posted by Shagster
The one thing related to Paragon Studios that did make my ears perk up: he did mention what the target audience would have been for the "super secret project". He said they used the catch-phrase "the evolved hardcore gamer" for what they were shooting for in appealing to. He said he was an example of an "evolved hardcore gamer", in that he had that hardcore gaming attitude and background, but now he had wife, kids, job, commitments, etc.
That's an interesting idea, to tailor a game to that market. |
To me this was just clear confirmation of what many here were speculating about.
Making a game that has it's target audience as "the evolved hardcore gamer" sounds like a death nail before it is even started. Especially in today's gaming environment of trying to appeal to as many as possible to maximize revenue on every single project.
Sounds like Paragon never had a chance.
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
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You could be right.|
Originally Posted by Darth_Khasei
Frankly, I took it as his clear explanation of the NC SOFT "going in a different direction" line. It seemed clear to me NC SOFT did not have faith in the super secret project and therefore decided to shut things down now.
To me this was just clear confirmation of what many here were speculating about. Making a game that has it's target audience as "the evolved hardcore gamer" sounds like a death nail before it is even started. Especially in today's gaming environment of trying to appeal to as many as possible to maximize revenue on every single project. Sounds like Paragon never had a chance. |
While I think targeting the "hardcore gamer who doesn't have much time for gaming anymore" could actually be a nice untapped market, I would think that might be exactly the opposite of what NCSoft wants to target, if they think hardcore grinding MMOs are where it's at. Maybe that conflict of vision doomed the Super-Secret-Project, and NCSoft killed Paragon because they didn't like what they saw in the pipeline.
Personally, I think Paragon was pretty good at being different than the crowd and finding new approaches to things. If anyone could have made a game that would exploit the "evolved hardcore gamer" market, it would be them.
I'm a published amateur comic book author: www.ericjohnsoncomics.com
******MA Arcs****
Arc 5909: "Amazon-Avatars"
Arc 6143: "Escalation" (Nominee: Architect Awards, Nominee: Player Awards, and Dev's Choice!)
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Do I take the bait? hmm...
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Originally Posted by Xzero45
So in other words nothing important happened.
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My new Youtube Channel with CoH info
You might know me as FlintEastwood now on Freedom
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Hard to take something that wasn't there to begin with, bro. Chill.
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Originally Posted by JayboH
Do I take the bait? hmm...
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Companies like NC SOFT are no longer interested in untapped markets or they would not be abandoning the tapped Western Superhero MMO market. They are only interested in the big revenue projects. This is the same kind of thing that happened in movies, tv and music a long time ago.|
Originally Posted by Shagster
You could be right.
While I think targeting the "hardcore gamer who doesn't have much time for gaming anymore" could actually be a nice untapped market, I would think that might be exactly the opposite of what NCSoft wants to target, if they think hardcore grinding MMOs are where it's at. Maybe that conflict of vision doomed the Super-Secret-Project, and NCSoft killed Paragon because they didn't like what they saw in the pipeline. Personally, I think Paragon was pretty good at being different than the crowd and finding new approaches to things. If anyone could have made a game that would exploit the "evolved hardcore gamer" market, it would be them. |
Artistic endeavors survived quite nicely in various niche's until the modern day suit/money trained corp. types took over with the increasing revenue and MAXIMUM bottom line mentality.
We will be lucky to see anything unique in the future. Very lucky....
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
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Except that this change could not have happened without the willing cooperation of the artists, who flocked to the big publishers/distributors in order to make the big money.|
Originally Posted by Darth_Khasei
Artistic endeavors survived quite nicely in various niche's until the modern day suit/money trained corp. types took over with the increasing revenue and MAXIMUM bottom line mentality.
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| We will be lucky to see anything unique in the future. Very lucky.... |
People are still figuring out how to work in the new reality, but this could be the beginning of the golden age of online gaming.
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Artists flocked to where they could get a paycheck. It was not their fault the large corps. eliminated niche opportunities at every turn.|
Originally Posted by Brillig
Except that this change could not have happened without the willing cooperation of the artists, who flocked to the big publishers/distributors in order to make the big money.
I couldn't disagree more. The advent of crowdfunding has made funding for niche projects a reality. Cloud computing has eliminated one of the biggest barriers to entry for online gaming by making it possible to pay for cycles on demand and cutting out one of the biggest costs of the online game - the datacenter. People are still figuring out how to work in the new reality, but this could be the beginning of the golden age of online gaming. |
Kickstarter, crowd funding etc. are great to get started, but as most small music publishers found out, if you want to go beyond a certain small niche, you must at some level get in bed with the big guys.
Also don't forget the factor that sees small niche companies reach a certain level then the big guys come in and buy them out and f**k it all up again. Until I see "that" trend change I don't see any difference. The small guys always sell out to the big guys for the money and then the big guys f**k it up.
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
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You keep missing the point. It takes two to dance. The big guys can't buy out the small guys if the small guys don't sell. And now, with the internet, the big guys don't control the distribution channel any more, so it really is a choice.|
Originally Posted by Darth_Khasei
Artists flocked to where they could get a paycheck. It was not their fault the large corps. eliminated niche opportunities at every turn.
Kickstarter, crowd funding etc. are great to get started, but as most small music publishers found out, if you want to go beyond a certain small niche, you must at some level get in bed with the big guys. Also don't forget the factor that sees small niche companies reach a certain level then the big guys come in and buy them out and ***** it all up again. Until I see "that" trend change I don't see any difference. The small guys always sell out to the big guys for the money and then the big guys ***** it up. |
And as for the artists needing a paycheck - well, there's a reason why the phrase "starving artist" exists. Again, their choice. If you want to get a regular paycheck for your art, then that's a choice you make. Alternatively, you can get a mundane 9-5 and work on your art in your spare time. But no one is being forced to work for a corporation at gunpoint. This ain't Shadowrun.
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Although it sounds like a sensible approach, the problem is that a lot of unevolved hardcore gamers still exist. When a new MMO title launches, groups of these show up, crash the party, drink all the booze, chuck the furniture in the pool, loudly proclaim, "THIS PARTY SUCKED!" and move on.|
Originally Posted by Darth_Khasei
Making a game that has it's target audience as "the evolved hardcore gamer" sounds like a death nail before it is even started. Especially in today's gaming environment of trying to appeal to as many as possible to maximize revenue on every single project.
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The evolved hardcore gamer doesn't see the damage done, but only hears that the title sucked and didn't have enough content in it. So they hold off, not wanting to sacrifice their precious time on something they might not enjoy.
It's a very hard group to reach.
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Originally Posted by Brillig
You keep missing the point. It takes two to dance. The big guys can't buy out the small guys if the small guys don't sell. And now, with the internet, the big guys don't control the distribution channel any more, so it really is a choice.snip
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Trust me I have been in the entertainment industry for two decades and live in the belly of the beast, I am not missing any points.
Small guys as individuals "sell out" when there is a major chance to enhance their lives for generations, but the average artist is living on much much less and many struggle just to make a living. Artist that work for corporations are a bit different, since they are not the type of artist that would need to worry about distribution. Since they are working for a corporation they have not issues in terms of trying to distribute and original work like a musician for instance.
In terms of distribution the big guys still have a hand in every new major distribution channel that has any real dollars flowing through just under different names. They have always done that kind of thing.
While the internet has opened the door to many, it has also made it harder to rise above the noise so to speak. Distribution alone is not the key to large retail sales. A large advertising budget needs to be allocated as well.
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
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Exactly. I think that scared some suits in a certain tower in Korea.
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Originally Posted by UnSub
Although it sounds like a sensible approach, the problem is that a lot of unevolved hardcore gamers still exist. When a new MMO title launches, groups of these show up, crash the party, drink all the booze, chuck the furniture in the pool, loudly proclaim, "THIS PARTY SUCKED!" and move on.
The evolved hardcore gamer doesn't see the damage done, but only hears that the title sucked and didn't have enough content in it. So they hold off, not wanting to sacrifice their precious time on something they might not enjoy. It's a very hard group to reach. |
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
Part 1
Part 2
Scroll down to the audio player.
I didn't want to give a direct link to the file, which I hope is proper etiquette, but there ya go.
My new Youtube Channel with CoH info
You might know me as FlintEastwood now on Freedom