Um - no I don't think so ..
By
afocks,
Posted on: 2012-09-19 11:04 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
No, thank YOU, NCsoft. Thank YOU.
Cordially,
The Copper Cockroach
SAVE THE UNIVERSE! www.cohtitan.com
P.S. By "thank", I mean "****".
You took the words right out of my mouth, dude.
"But we are like children, thinking our toys will make us happy and the whole world is our nursery. Something must drive us out of that nursery and into the lives of others, and that something is suffering." �C.S. Lewis
Forget my earlier... I changed my mind, misread, hungry.. distracted. Probably shouldn't have typed all of it.
All hail Paragon Studios, and City of Heroes!
As for NCSoft... well... I'll see what happens.
Mike
August 31, 2012. A Day that will Live in Infamy. Or Information. Possibly Influence. Well, Inf, anyway. Thank you, Paragon Studios, for what you did, and the enjoyment and camaraderie you brought.
This is houtex, aka Mike, signing off the forums. G'night all. - 10/26/2012
Well... perhaps I was premature about that whole 'signing off' thing... - 11-9-2012
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by The Electric Brick
No, thank YOU, NCsoft. Thank YOU.
Cordially, The Copper Cockroach SAVE THE UNIVERSE! www.cohtitan.com P.S. By "thank", I mean "****". |
Erm - YES - Categorically not a fan of NCSoft.
I personally thought that giving us real money refunds for time past foreclosure and recent points purchases was the RIGHT thing to do, rather than a reason to be even more angry.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
|
Quote:
To be fair, it is also what they have to legally do.|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
I personally thought that giving us real money refunds for time past foreclosure and recent points purchases was the RIGHT thing to do, rather than a reason to be even more angry.
|
I think the window for the paragon points could have been larger... by a week at least... maybe even up to the start of August. But no matter which date you set for the refund on points, people will always complain.
At least for the subscription, as it will be prorata on how much you get back, everyone is treated equally (ie i get nothing back, my GF gets 5months(ish) back.)
Quote:
There's always been those that wanted desperately a reason to complain.
|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
I personally thought that giving us real money refunds for time past foreclosure and recent points purchases was the RIGHT thing to do, rather than a reason to be even more angry.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by ShadowNate
;_; ?!?! What the heck is wrong with you, my god, I have never been so confused in my life!
|
Quote:
Oh indeed... and I am actually quite surprised in that people haven't been clamoring for more in the reimbursement package, along the lines of what players from Tabula Rasa received.|
Originally Posted by Kitsune Knight
There's always been those that wanted desperately a reason to complain.
|
And unlike common belief, the Tabula Rasa players *did* receive a refund on subscriptions *and* got other stuff as well....
Sure, you might not want to use the codes that were given, but at least they were offered for TR players to use*
Quote:
It IS the right thing to do. But the rest of that news posting is obvious crap to the point that NCSoft defecating on our keyboards would be less blatant.
|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
I personally thought that giving us real money refunds for time past foreclosure and recent points purchases was the RIGHT thing to do, rather than a reason to be even more angry.
|
Quote:
This. Real money refunds will make me consider my own stance on not buying NCSoft again. Of course, they'll have to come out with games I want to play. Like Comic Book themed MMOs.... |
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
I personally thought that giving us real money refunds for time past foreclosure and recent points purchases was the RIGHT thing to do, rather than a reason to be even more angry.
|
oh....
@Rylas
Kill 'em all. Let XP sort 'em out.
I said it once, and i will say it again...
Going from previous experience with NCsoft and the closure of their previous games, they give a refund on unused subscription time. They didn't credit the "unused time" to another game.
Sure, they gave you codes AND Game time for other games, but this was *in addition* to refunding the unused gametime on your account.
See what was posted up on the EU Tabula Rasa website when the announcement for its closure was posted
Quote:
I have bolded and increased the size on the important part.
|
21st November 2008 17:14 Posted by Avatea On February 28, 2009, Tabula Rasa will be shutting down its servers, and as of January 10, 2009, the game will be free to play. To thank our loyal Tabula Rasa fans weve prepared a little closing down gift. Any active paying player as of 10:00 AM Pacific Time on November 21st, 2008 will be eligible for all of the following: 3 free months of City of Heroes including digital client 3 free months of Lineage II including digital client Aion Exclusive Preview Event access (details coming soon) Aion pre-order access (available in 2009) 1 free month of Aion including digital client (available in 2009) These offers are limited to active paying players. Subscribers who join or reactivate cancelled accounts after 10:00 AM Pacific Time on November 21st, 2008 will not be eligible. If you are an eligible Tabula Rasa player, youll be receiving notification directly from NCsoft in the near future with information on how to collect these thank you gifts. If you are a player that has pre-paid for Tabula Rasa subscription time beyond January 10, 2009, you will be refunded for that pre-paid time by February 28, 2009. Should you have further questions please dont hesitate to contact our customer support team at http://eu.plaync.com/eu/help/. From everyone at NCsoft, wed like to thank you for the support and enthusiasm youve dedicated to Tabula Rasa over the last year. |
Quote:
Do You think our being really angry didn't contribute them deciding to honor their legal obligations ?
|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
I personally thought that giving us real money refunds for time past foreclosure and recent points purchases was the RIGHT thing to do, rather than a reason to be even more angry.
|
"Honor their legal obligations?"
The refund/restitution program is NOT a legal obligation. Go read section 4b of the Agreement, the big bolded part about halfway through.
This is above and beyond their legal obligation, as it were, as we all agreed by playing the game (and/or having an account) they can just say "oh well, too bad, thanks for the cash!" But they didn't. Perhaps our displeasure had something to do with it, but they could have been *real* nasty about it, and perfectly within their "legal obligations" in doing so. And given some of the vitriol against them, I sort of thought maybe it might happen they'd get all huffy and do exactly that: Keep the monies, and say "g'way now, we're done." A small percentage chance, I figured, but it was a chance nonetheless.
I wanted to point that out in case someone decided to pick up that ball and try to run with it. Nope, people, this is not A Thing(tm).
I'm glad to see they're trying to be nice about things... even if they are stabbing us all in the feels with the closure.
But we're not dead yet! Keep on keepin' on people!
Mike
August 31, 2012. A Day that will Live in Infamy. Or Information. Possibly Influence. Well, Inf, anyway. Thank you, Paragon Studios, for what you did, and the enjoyment and camaraderie you brought.
This is houtex, aka Mike, signing off the forums. G'night all. - 10/26/2012
Well... perhaps I was premature about that whole 'signing off' thing... - 11-9-2012
Quote:
You have to remember that the EULA doesn't trump local laws either. I know that talking as an EU player, that just by shutting the service down, that for any complete months of unused time (ie a subscription) you are entitled to a refund.|
Originally Posted by houtex
"Honor their legal obligations?"
The refund/restitution program is NOT a legal obligation. Go read section 4b of the Agreement, the big bolded part about halfway through. This is above and beyond their legal obligation, as it were, as we all agreed by playing the game (and/or having an account) they can just say "oh well, too bad, thanks for the cash!" But they didn't. Perhaps our displeasure had something to do with it, but they could have been *real* nasty about it, and perfectly within their "legal obligations" in doing so. And given some of the vitriol against them, I sort of thought maybe it might happen they'd get all huffy and do exactly that: Keep the monies, and say "g'way now, we're done." A small percentage chance, I figured, but it was a chance nonetheless. I wanted to point that out in case someone decided to pick up that ball and try to run with it. Nope, people, this is not A Thing(tm). I'm glad to see they're trying to be nice about things... even if they are stabbing us all in the feels with the closure. But we're not dead yet! Keep on keepin' on people! Mike |
Now, if NCsoft had gone bankrupt, then yes, you are at least *mostly* correct. We just then become one of the many people owed money (and to be honest, we would be faaar down the list on those who would be paid back)
Quote:
Indeed, and thank you for pointing that out. I apologize for my overreaching blanket statement. But excepting those exceptions (ugh, that's so wrong of me to type...) I'm guessing a majority shouldn't have expected any 'legal obligation' on NCSoft's part.|
Originally Posted by Gangrel_EU
You have to remember that the EULA doesn't trump local laws either. I know that talking as an EU player, that just by shutting the service down, that for any complete months of unused time (ie a subscription) you are entitled to a refund.
Now, if NCsoft had gone bankrupt, then yes, you are at least *mostly* correct. We just then become one of the many people owed money (and to be honest, we would be faaar down the list on those who would be paid back) |
I know I didn't.
Mike
August 31, 2012. A Day that will Live in Infamy. Or Information. Possibly Influence. Well, Inf, anyway. Thank you, Paragon Studios, for what you did, and the enjoyment and camaraderie you brought.
This is houtex, aka Mike, signing off the forums. G'night all. - 10/26/2012
Well... perhaps I was premature about that whole 'signing off' thing... - 11-9-2012
Quote:
No worries. To be fair, I am pretty certain that something similar stands for the US side of the market, *however* in that case, i believe that the "transferal of unused credit to another product" is something that is allowable. I do also believe that you have a right to ask for the credit to be re-issued as a monetary refund.|
Originally Posted by houtex
Indeed, and thank you for pointing that out. I apologize for my overreaching blanket statement. But excepting those exceptions (ugh, that's so wrong of me to type...) I'm guessing a majority shouldn't have expected any 'legal obligation' on NCSoft's part.
I know I didn't. Mike |
I think that no matter their reasoning, that NCsoft did the fair thing, even allowing the refunds on points that were bought (upto) a week earlier before the shutdown.
Yes, people can complain about the lack of refunds before that point, but that is going to be something that you can talk to billing and support about. So if you bought your points 2 months ago (or even a month before the announcement) get in touch with those guys to see if they will refund you accordingly.
It won't hurt to try (and as an interesting side note, i actually wonder how much of their revenue *was* from the buying of paragon points, and not from subscriptions... it would give an interesting view on the status of the player base and if those people *stopped* buying points, would the game have been profitiable).
Quote:
You shouldn't expect the EULA to trump any complaints you might have, either. Based on my albeit casual reading of various local laws in the US, NCSoft wouldn't have had a strong case if they'd tried to withhold refunds for undelivered subscription time. |
Originally Posted by houtex
Indeed, and thank you for pointing that out. I apologize for my overreaching blanket statement. But excepting those exceptions (ugh, that's so wrong of me to type...) I'm guessing a majority shouldn't have expected any 'legal obligation' on NCSoft's part.
I know I didn't. Mike |
(The relevant clause in the EULA is neither prominently displayed prior to purchase, nor is it phrased in obviously easy-to-understand language; the clause is buried in a veritable mountain of legalese covering any number of abstruse and practically unimportant topics to the average consumer -- which might be fine for this-or-that locality, but the standard in several US localities seems to be that the refund policy must be displayed and phrased in such a way that it's basically impossible for the customer to miss or misinterpret.
It's not even clear to me that NCSoft could withhold refunds if the relevant clause in the EULA were forcibly tattooed to the customer's forehead, either -- because if you read the clause sensibly, along with the related clause 10, it's pretty obvious that NCSoft's legitimate concern is that people will demand refunds for server outages or maintenance periods. A judge would have to be insane to infer from that clause that NCSoft has the right to take subscription money for any length of time during which they've deliberately and permanently discontinued the entire service.)
But if Gangrel's info about Tabula Rasa is correct, then it looks like the concern was a tad overblown to begin with. As usual, the truth is a little less shocking than the rumor on the internet. In any case, and regardless of their reasoning, I'm glad to see NCSoft's doing the right thing for CoH's long-term subscribers.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze
Nice build
 |
Quote:
I can see where the worry came from, because when TR was announced to be closed, it *also* came with the post that i quoted up earlier on.|
Originally Posted by Obitus
But if Gangrel's info about Tabula Rasa is correct, then it looks like the concern was a tad overblown to begin with. As usual, the truth is a little less shocking than the rumor on the internet. In any case, and regardless of their reasoning, I'm glad to see NCSoft's doing the right thing for CoH's long-term subscribers.
|
Unlike the CoX closure, which was very abrupt and devoid of any reimbursement information from NCsoft.
This is why i quoted from the webarchives what was actually given.
Quote:
Yes, we're definitely not dead yet. And we're still needed for support. To make noise.|
Originally Posted by houtex
But we're not dead yet! Keep on keepin' on people!
|
Run a TF today! The first Positron's Ally event is tonight! Run the first TF, be Positron's ally!
Also consider sending NCsoft an e-mail urging them to sell the game if you haven't yet. They set up an e-mail just for us at COHSunset@ncsoft.com
Is it a black hole? I don't know! I sent one anyway.
Tell anyone who doesn't know about these. And the Titan Forum is also a good source of organization/stuff to do.
Culex's resistance guide
" we want to personally share with you NCsoft’s sincere thanks to all of our fans"
from the thread http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=297471
Categorically not a fan of NCSoft Zwill. Certainly a fan of City of Heroes, the Devs and the Community team because of who you all are and what you have done for us and the game.