Put us out of our misery


Anti_Proton

 

Posted

Forbin is the troll here, always has been. js


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project View Post
You know, we've never spoken Forbin but I like you. Your posts have always been clearly stated and mostly full of common sense. But I feel I must state that you clearly do not know Shadowe at all and that this post was incredibly rude. In many, many debates Shadowe has been the voice of reason and is one of the most coherent and intelligent posters on these forums. So please, before you go labelling people as trolls, try and look at what he is saying and respond in the reasoned way that I know you are capable of.

However, as much as I understand what Shadowe is saying, I do not believe we will receive any communication from NCSoft other than what we already have. Let me tell you a little story.

I may be one of the few EU subscribers around who remember what happened when NCSoft Europe shut down. I even, by a bizarre co-incidence, worked in the office next door to them. The EU had separate servers, separate forums, we were a totally separate entity. One Friday, there was a very short post on our forums telling us the NCSoft Europe was shutting down. That was it. Aside from a few hurried posts from our community and moderation team, the office was closed and about a hundred people given their marching orders on the same day. For weeks and weeks, the EU forums exploded with angry people who had no idea what this meant for us. Were the EU servers being shut down? What would happen to the forums? Who was in charge? What about our billing?

We waited for weeks and nothing happened. We were completely left in the dark by NCSoft until finally some temporary moderation came through from the US. Shortly after the forums merged but I remember for that time we were abandoned with no communication whatsoever. So to see them do the same thing again to the whole game comes as no surprise to me. It's pretty much par for the course for them so I am not expecting any further communication from them whatsoever. If the servers go dark on the 30th of November without another word from NCSoft, I will not be surprised in the least.

That said, I totally endorse and support every action that is being taken to try and keep CoX alive. And I live in hope that our fat can be pulled from the fire and that we can keep going as a community. But us in the EU have already had this treatment before so this treatment is nothing new. As for us, right now we need everyone to stand together rather than descending into mudslinging. Please.


@Dante EU - Union Roleplayer and Altisis Victim
The Militia: Union RP Supergroup - www.themilitia.org.uk

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nethergoat View Post
If we end up bashing into a brick wall, as seems likely, we do it with the finest motives and in excellent company.
I'll toast to that.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by katnap View Post
Two weeks and we have heard nothing, the community has been fantastic, Tony and his team brilliant, so many people have done more than anyone could ask, and more.

NCsoft cannot have missed what we have been saying, I don't beleave they are unaware of our actions, I think they are ignoring us, and they can continue to do that until the servers shutdown, they have nothing to lose, it's all just business to them, money, not people.

Tonyv sounds worried in his last post, I am worried, I'm sure many others are too.

I'm not giving up, but the fight is hard, I think we deserve an answer now.

Ncsoft, tell us, put us out of our misery, 'is there any chance that COH will be saved ? yes or no', thats all we, well, at least that's all I ask, am I really asking that much ?

Actually... yes, you are asking that much, to be blunt. They've quite obviously had some offers, there are discussions that have been mentioned - *any* word on NC's part before any of that is done would be premature. So, no, I don't expect to hear a thing from NC for at least another two weeks. I'd be surprised to see a press release acknowledging ... well, anything.

Frankly, we've been spoiled by how great *our* dev team is at talking with us. It's very unusual.


Now, my saying that about NC does *NOT* excuse the lack of communication to current subscribers about refunds or the game shutting down. That's just horrible service, and that *should* have been sent out to every single subscriber. I see where I applied one of the serial codes given out for one of the auras. After that... not a *peep* from NCSoft. Where is the "City of Heroes is being sunsetted, closing November 30th?" Where is the "Billing is currently shut down for this game and will not be renewed?" Where is the "Questions about refunds" (or even "No, we won't give refunds") email? That's just bad, *bad* customer service. Heck, I don't even see a remailing of their press release. THAT silence, to me, is inexcusable after this long.


 

Posted

I've been here longer than many of you (early beta.) My wife and I have been playing CoH for over 8 years...

That said, why is it magically the publisher's job to personally tell you anything all of a sudden, instead of the development team? Why are the people who worked on the game mean nothing to you whatsoever now - and their news of the game shutting down something you choose to ignore? Did you go and thank NCSoft for the issue releases instead of Paragon/Cryptic all these years?

Also, the TonyV thing - he's pretty much given up his personal efforts and wants us to contact the gang at NCSoft. There is no 'talks' between Titan Network and NCSoft because NCSoft has so far refused to even give one reply to TonyV and Titan Network.

I want this game to continue but I'm realistic.


My new Youtube Channel with CoH info
You might know me as FlintEastwood now on Freedom

 

Posted

Honestly, I take the silence as a promising sign.

If NCSoft was doing the "right" thing, then they ought by now to have put something on the launcher about the "sunset". My memory may be faulty but I recall that with Tabula Rasa they wasted little time doing just that.

If they hoped to sell the game along with its existing base of users then the last thing they'd want to do is to encourage users to start leaving in droves.

The silence suggests the possibility that "negotiations" might actually be happening. In that case, nobody says anything that might derail the deal.

In any case, two weeks is a short time; too short to reasonably expect to hear anything from a large business that moves at the speed of bureaucracy. Especially if there IS a negotiation in play. They need to work out what the sunset plans actually are, and how those plans will be implemented. They need to work out how to contact everyone, including the people like Shadowe's wife, who just play the game and don't follow gaming news. If there are offers, then they have to put a dollar value on the IP and its customers, and they have to draw up contracts, and they have to dicker.

Expecting to hear anything at all before the end of September is an unreasonable expectation, IMO.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by SlickRiptide View Post
If NCSoft was doing the "right" thing, then they ought by now to have put something on the launcher about the "sunset". ...
If they hoped to sell the game along with its existing base of users then the last thing they'd want to do is to encourage users to start leaving in droves....
Er, Paragon Studios' shut down letter has been linked onto the CoH section of the NCSoft launcher since that letter was posted on August 31st.

Sorry, but....


 

Posted

Quote:
why is it magically the publisher's job to personally tell you anything all of a sudden, instead of the development team?
Because they're the ones taking my money.

Quote:
Paragon Studios' shut down letter has been linked onto the CoH section of the NCSoft launcher since that letter was posted on August 31st.
That's true, but I'm pretty sure that anything posted in the Announcements forum automatically goes to that section of the launcher. So it doesn't exactly represent initiative on NCSoft's part.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gayla View Post
Because they're the ones taking my money.
Oh, I forgot Paragon worked for free.


My new Youtube Channel with CoH info
You might know me as FlintEastwood now on Freedom

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by JayboH View Post
That said, why is it magically the publisher's job to personally tell you anything all of a sudden, instead of the development team? Why are the people who worked on the game mean nothing to you whatsoever now - and their news of the game shutting down something you choose to ignore? Did you go and thank NCSoft for the issue releases instead of Paragon/Cryptic all these years?.
let's try an analogy (useless though they are).

I bank with a particular bank. It's called NatWest, and it is a subsidiary of the Royal Bank of Scotland. What if, one day, RBS decided to completely close NatWest, and NatWest decided to communicate this via a post on a message board, and a press release sent to a banking news website? Would it be unreasonable of me, a paying customer for a number of years, to expect one or the other group to communicate that information directly to me? And, since NatWest gets shut down immediately with only a skeleton crew available to wrap up things, would it not fall on RBS to be the ones to tell me? Ignoring terms and conditions that say they can, isn't it polite to actually inform your paying customers - all of them - that you are stripping a service? As business practices go, failing to do so actually stinks.

My wife eagerly awaits Paragon Studios or NCsoft actually telling her that they are removing a service for which she pays. Because so far they have not.


The wisdom of Shadowe: Ghostraptor: The Shadowe is wise ...; FFM: Shadowe is no longer wise. ; Techbot_Alpha: Also, what Shadowe said. It seems he is still somewhat wise ; Bull Throttle: Shadowe was unwise in this instance...; Rock_Powerfist: in this instance Shadowe is wise.; Techbot_Alpha: Shadowe is very wise *nods*; Zortel: *Quotable line about Shadowe being wise goes here.*

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by JayboH View Post
That said, why is it magically the publisher's job to personally tell you anything all of a sudden, instead of the development team? Why are the people who worked on the game mean nothing to you whatsoever now - and their news of the game shutting down something you choose to ignore? Did you go and thank NCSoft for the issue releases instead of Paragon/Cryptic all these years?
1: Well, the publisher is the one who canceled the game out of the blue, blindsiding the development team as much as the community. Which makes them the logical source for further interrogation.

2: See above.

3: If we were "ignoring" the news we wouldn't be fighting to save the game.

4: I thanked NC over the years in the only language they care about: $$$.


Quote:
Also, the TonyV thing - he's pretty much given up his personal efforts and wants us to contact the gang at NCSoft. There is no 'talks' between Titan Network and NCSoft because NCSoft has so far refused to even give one reply to TonyV and Titan Network.
That isn't giving up, it's realizing one tactic isn't going anywhere and looking for another route to the goal. The Titan crew are still serving as a hub for the efforts of those trying to save the game.

Quote:
I want this game to continue but I'm realistic.
Gratz!
Now, go play GW2 and let all us unrealistic losers keep fighting for this game.


The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.

My City Was Gone

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunder Knight View Post
Worse still, from a customer-relations perspective, is that they've said nothing about refunding subscription time or points. That's something that should have been communicated to customers within 24 hours of the announcement of the game closing (if not as part of the game-closing announcement), yet here it is, more than two weeks later, and there's been no information.

In fact, NC Soft has themselves said nothing about CoH at all, including that the game was being closed. The only communication has come from Paragon.

And that's... disconcerting, at best.

Of course, I'd rather have the game continue and I'd be more than glad to continue paying to subscribe, but they shouldn't get to both kill the game AND keep our money.
Brillant words! I agree with all you've said here.


Les Gardiens de l'Equilibre / Les Disciples de l'Equilibre / Les Traqueurs de Chaos

 

Posted

Quote:
Oh, I forgot Paragon worked for free.
Of course Paragon doesn't work for free, but they're not the ones I pay. I pay the publisher. (Our game accounts are NCSoft accounts, after all.) So the publisher has a responsibility to let me know what's going on.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by shadow35 View Post
Er, Paragon Studios' shut down letter has been linked onto the CoH section of the NCSoft launcher since that letter was posted on August 31st.

Sorry, but....
Ah, true. I glance past that most of the time.

Well, the point still stands. Regardless whether the information is "here's how the game closes" or "here's how it moves to a new owner", expecting info about it this early is expecting it too soon.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadowe View Post
let's try an analogy (useless though they are).

I bank with a particular bank. It's called NatWest, and it is a subsidiary of the Royal Bank of Scotland. What if, one day, RBS decided to completely close NatWest, and NatWest decided to communicate this via a post on a message board, and a press release sent to a banking news website? Would it be unreasonable of me, a paying customer for a number of years, to expect one or the other group to communicate that information directly to me? And, since NatWest gets shut down immediately with only a skeleton crew available to wrap up things, would it not fall on RBS to be the ones to tell me? Ignoring terms and conditions that say they can, isn't it polite to actually inform your paying customers - all of them - that you are stripping a service? As business practices go, failing to do so actually stinks.

My wife eagerly awaits Paragon Studios or NCsoft actually telling her that they are removing a service for which she pays. Because so far they have not.
To answer the questions, no, because NCSoft didn't communicate anything with you before and never needed to, since it was Paragon's job.


My new Youtube Channel with CoH info
You might know me as FlintEastwood now on Freedom

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nethergoat View Post
1: Well, the publisher is the one who canceled the game out of the blue, blindsiding the development team as much as the community. Which makes them the logical source for further interrogation.

2: See above.

3: If we were "ignoring" the news we wouldn't be fighting to save the game.

4: I thanked NC over the years in the only language they care about: $$$.




That isn't giving up, it's realizing one tactic isn't going anywhere and looking for another route to the goal. The Titan crew are still serving as a hub for the efforts of those trying to save the game.



Gratz!
Now, go play GW2 and let all us unrealistic losers keep fighting for this game.
My answers were replies to those in the thread and not to you. Thank you for your permission to play GW2 - can I play some other games too or no? Why are you insulting yourself, by the way?


My new Youtube Channel with CoH info
You might know me as FlintEastwood now on Freedom

 

Posted

I think the community outpouring has been great; I never thought that people online would band together like this over a video game. I'll keep signing any petition that comes my way, but it looks as if NC Soft isn't changing its mind.

I don't want to sound negative and be one of the few who drives down the energy of the Save City Of Heroes campaign, but TonyV posted exactly what I was thinking in his latest post. Talks aside, I doubt any of the development team has been or is willing to stick around and not look for a job on the slim chance NC Soft might change its mind. The biggest threat to the death of this game is already happening. I'm sure that some of the dev.'s have pretty much secured new jobs and TonyV is aware of this.

The biggest trial will be getting a reaction from NC Soft in the next two to three weeks. The executives at NC Soft know that no sane person from Paragon Studios is going to stick around in the hope that the company might reverse its decision. My feeling is that after a month to five weeks from the date of the statement being made to sunset the game is the most integral time period. After the next two to three weeks I wouldn't put much hope into the game being saved. TonyV knows this. Furthermore, if the developers get hired elsewhere, City Of Heroes will not be the same game even if it survives under another studio's banner. TonyV is seeming more desperate and I know I am not the only one sensing this. Since he has direct contact with some of the people at Paragon Studios I would not take this as a good sign.

In the meantime everyone should keep up the support, I will, but be very realistic that as with anything in life, nothing lasts forever and that this game had a great run of eight years. Eight years is much longer than what most MMO's stick around for nowadays and we should be happy that we got to play for this long and happy that the player base isn't taking this lying down. I do feel that NC Soft has a right to do what it wants (obviously) with its own property, but they should have given more respect to the development team and players and have given City Of Heroes a proper send off. They should have kept a small staff on to create a small end of the world event. One final assault from The Battalion let's say.

As for emailing the top executives at NC Soft? That's something I'd refrain from doing. My father works in upper management and while it may not be a video game company he works for, I imagine that the upper management at NC Soft is very similar. I doubt that most of the executives even play video games. They are only concerned about making more money and are not entirely too concerned with an old IP that they find insignificant. Emailing the executives directly, in my mind, is a bad idea and may only serve to annoy them and reinforce their decision to shutter the game. If I know my dad and his coworkers well enough, annoyance is probably what will be the end result and make them less likely to reconsider sunsetting City Of Heroes.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gayla View Post
Of course Paragon doesn't work for free, but they're not the ones I pay. I pay the publisher. (Our game accounts are NCSoft accounts, after all.) So the publisher has a responsibility to let me know what's going on.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SlickRiptide View Post
Ah, true. I glance past that most of the time.

Well, the point still stands. Regardless whether the information is "here's how the game closes" or "here's how it moves to a new owner", expecting info about it this early is expecting it too soon.


Yeah that's a good point too. The official NCSoft launcher provides us the news. It's not complete, but there it is, on top of what is on the official game site page and the releases to the press.


My new Youtube Channel with CoH info
You might know me as FlintEastwood now on Freedom

 

Posted

Quote:
I'm sure that some of the dev.'s have pretty much secured new jobs and TonyV is aware of this.
Do you really think so? It takes a while to find a job, in my experience. There are usually multiple interviews and they have to be scheduled around all the meetings on everyone's calendar. And then HR gets involved, and all of that red tape takes a while as well. I think the last time I was looking for a job, it took two months from the first phone call I got until the day I started it--and that was what the company considered rushing! (Granted, it was a really big insurance company and there was a lot of bureaucracy.)

Maybe the devs are really well-known in the industry and basically had jobs waiting for them; but especially in this economy I would expect it to take several weeks even if the first place they interviewed with loved them.


 

Posted

Actually, I thought I heard NCSoft was helping with a job fair for Paragon shortly after the layoff.


My new Youtube Channel with CoH info
You might know me as FlintEastwood now on Freedom

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gayla View Post
Do you really think so?

Gayla, I do. I specifically said "pretty much". You said it yourself that they have friends in the industry and as Jayboh mentioned, NC Soft was actively helping them find new jobs. One thing I've learned from working in a certain field is that many people within a given industry know one another. Video game development, despite the larger studios and massive profits these days, is still a relatively small field compared to fields in the rest of the country. I'm sure that some, if not many of them, have jobs pretty much lined up at this point and are only waiting out the rest of the official hiring process. City Of Heroes despite its end was a highly successful independent MMO. How many developers can say that they were a part of something like that? Not many I'd wager. I'm sure that a good portion of the senior staff in particular is being snatched up as we speak. I saw over in the CO forums that a Cryptic community manager said that he passed on the information about City Of Heroes' closing to the hire ups and specifically said that the studio is interested in snatching up whoever they can. Time is going to be the real killer of City Of Heroes here, not NC Soft. NC Soft has in effect actively worked to dissolve Paragon Studios. It seems the company isn't exactly soulless if it set up a job fair for its former employees.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by JayboH View Post
My answers were replies to those in the thread and not to you.
Well gee, that's not how public forums work.
Unless you quote posts, which you didn't.


Anyway, this post in another thread nailed you and your ilk to the wall:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mister_Bison View Post
Just making counts here.

There are people that work toward saving City of heroes from closing.
There are people that work toward making something that'll accomodate the players after City closes.

And then there are people that are on the forum, barking their opinions sitting on their backside.

Have fun yapping!


The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.

My City Was Gone

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill View Post
Now, my saying that about NC does *NOT* excuse the lack of communication to current subscribers about refunds or the game shutting down. That's just horrible service, and that *should* have been sent out to every single subscriber. I see where I applied one of the serial codes given out for one of the auras. After that... not a *peep* from NCSoft. Where is the "City of Heroes is being sunsetted, closing November 30th?" Where is the "Billing is currently shut down for this game and will not be renewed?" Where is the "Questions about refunds" (or even "No, we won't give refunds") email? That's just bad, *bad* customer service. Heck, I don't even see a remailing of their press release. THAT silence, to me, is inexcusable after this long.
... VERY good points, and ones I know JUST who to point out about thanks to Tony V.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nethergoat View Post
Well gee, that's not how public forums work.
Unless you quote posts, which you didn't.


Anyway, this post in another thread nailed you and your ilk to the wall:




Have fun yapping!
If you request nicely, I will be happy to edit the post to include quotes. What is 'my ilk' exactly in your eyes? Is 'my ilk' the kind that have paid thousands into this game, made numerous helpful CoH videos, made AE arcs that let you bash NCSoft goons, linked the various help efforts everywhere, and also don't expect anything to change? If so, that's pretty accurate.


My new Youtube Channel with CoH info
You might know me as FlintEastwood now on Freedom

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Star Ranger 4 View Post
... VERY good points, and ones I know JUST who to point out about thanks to Tony V.
Yes, he does have valid points. The problem is that corporations are extremely arrogant these days. They should have at least done the minimum in communicating via email the closure, refund policy, etc., which they have not done.

It's little matter to me at this point because after City Of Heroes I'm done with video games for good. So it's one last gamer in an already shrinking video game market. If you ask me, video games started dieing the day that microtransactions and preorder content became the norm. I've only played City Of Heroes for the most part in the past 10 years now so I wasn't really around when all of that crept in and became the norm, but the current model of things is only going to make people slowly stop playing games because eventually people will be sick of being nickel and dimed. It's already happening from what I can tell.