Rethinking the MMO: How I would do CoH2
By
Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2012-09-13 15:26 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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While my idea describes the technology, I hope the presumption is that the way this technology would initially be used is in a way that encourages "cloud play" even if solo. And the intent of the server technology architecture is not intended to imply the game would naturally be run on a blizzard of thousands of tiny servers, but would under normal conditions be run much like any other MMO: with servers operated by the game owners. Alternate servers would be secondary options, and a fallback if the primary servers were temporarily or permanently unavailable.
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Originally Posted by Starsman
Maybe even take it further; a single player game does not need to have private instances as we know them. Perhaps the game can choose to toss other players into your own instances. Always giving the player a setting to entirely turning off multiplayer mode, though, but turned on by default.
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I am unaware of any public statements addressing that topic specifically.
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Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
Rather than start a new thread for it I have to ask: Has Matt Miller or the others expressed any opinion either way about doing a spiritual successor to CoH? I mean, I know that final bell hasn't rung here yet but I'm curious and I'm honestly just looking for something to hope for.
I can see how this is something they may want to, but I can also see why they may be burnt out on super heroes and how they may want to move on to something else. Like I said, it's too early to say anything, I just want to know if the desire is there. . |
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I would not be shocked if Matt Miller pursues such a goal, but you can't do that kind of stuff without strong financial backing. He will have to spend a time shopping the idea around, and once he gets a publisher we will not see any fruits for at least 2 or 3 years in the future.|
Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
Rather than start a new thread for it I have to ask: Has Matt Miller or the others expressed any opinion either way about doing a spiritual successor to CoH? I mean, I know that final bell hasn't rung here yet but I'm curious and I'm honestly just looking for something to hope for.
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Keep in mind, if they don't aquire CoH and all that is under it, they will be forced to start from scratch.
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| I can see how this is something they may want to, but I can also see why they may be burnt out on super heroes and how they may want to move on to something else. Like I said, it's too early to say anything, I just want to know if the desire is there. |
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That almost sound as you are discretely saying "I am aware of private statements addressing that topic specifically that I can't talk about right for obvious reasons" |
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
I am unaware of any public statements addressing that topic specifically.
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Indeed.|
Originally Posted by Starsman
That almost sound as you are discretely saying "I am aware of private statements addressing that topic specifically that I can't talk about right for obvious reasons"
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But, in a world where even well-funded games with experienced crews never even make it to beta, I'll take it with a tea spoon of salt.
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*kicks the rumor mill on full power*|
Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
Indeed.
But, in a world where even well-funded games with experienced crews never even make it to beta, I'll take it with a tea spoon of salt. |
Who knows, maybe she already was approached to do a "new breed of MMO", something that can be done with a smaller budget without server dependencies and this thread is just her first assignment at scounting player feedback on the concept.
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If Arcana is involved to that degree I'm not sure I'd want to play that hypothetical MMO.|
Originally Posted by Starsman
*kicks the rumor mill on full power*
Who knows, maybe she already was approached to do a "new breed of MMO", something that can be done with a smaller budget without server dependencies and this thread is just her first assignment at scounting player feedback on the concept. |
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Yeah, the problem is that none of us can afford her.|
Originally Posted by Starsman
Who knows, maybe she already was approached to do a "new breed of MMO",
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Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
If Arcana is involved to that degree I'm not sure I'd want to play that hypothetical MMO.
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(To be fair, I'd be way more interested in her second game than her first.)
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To elaborate, I'm unaware of any attempt to build a CoH2 by any former member of the Paragon team, or any other developer.|
Originally Posted by Starsman
That almost sound as you are discretely saying "I am aware of private statements addressing that topic specifically that I can't talk about right for obvious reasons"
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I said public because I have had a few private conversations with a number of the Paragon team after the shutdown, the contents of which I will not divulge. However, I am not in any way coyly suggesting the team is working on, or has approached me regarding, either continuing the development of City of Heroes or any explicitly stated successor. I have no explicit knowledge of that one way or the other.
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To be candid, if I ever actually found myself working on another MMO, I don't think you're able to recognize my design signature. You'd only know I was involved if I said so explicitly.
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Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
If Arcana is involved to that degree I'm not sure I'd want to play that hypothetical MMO.
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OK so the MMO you heard they are working on is called something entirely different, got it.|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
To elaborate, I'm unaware of any attempt to build a CoH2 by any former member of the Paragon team, or any other developer.
I said public because I have had a few private conversations with a number of the Paragon team after the shutdown, the contents of which I will not divulge. However, I am not in any way coyly suggesting the team is working on, or has approached me regarding, either continuing the development of City of Heroes or any explicitly stated successor. I have no explicit knowledge of that one way or the other. |
*PS: dont ruin the fun, we all know better, we just having some fun here.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
To be candid, if I ever actually found myself working on another MMO, I don't think you're able to recognize my design signature. You'd only know I was involved if I said so explicitly.
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And you would patiently wait until the day J_B identifies himself while at the same time claiming "This is the best MMO ever and what all other super hero MMOs should have been like!" ?
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Challenge accepted. I don't play fair. Nice sig.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
I don't think you're able to recognize my design signature. You'd only know I was involved if I said so explicitly.
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*squints eyes*|
Originally Posted by Jack_NoMind
Challenge accepted. I don't play fair. Nice sig.
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Who are you...
(seriously confused)
What? Nothing. Hey, Hector, do you know anyone from Serbia?
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If only the gaming gods were that kind.
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Originally Posted by Starsman
And you would patiently wait until the day J_B identifies himself while at the same time claiming "This is the best MMO ever and what all other super hero MMOs should have been like!" ?
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I think I'm going to retire Johnny Butane and become someone else for the next great super hero MMO, on the slim chance there is one.|
Originally Posted by Starsman
And you would patiently wait until the day J_B identifies himself while at the same time claiming "This is the best MMO ever and what all other super hero MMOs should have been like!" ?
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Arcana's involvement or not, I think a month or two after CoH shuts down, most of the people on these forums are going to be climbing the walls for a spiritual successor no matter who it's being offered by.
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What is the spirit of the game ? |
Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
I think I'm going to retire Johnny Butane and become someone else for the next great super hero MMO, on the slim chance there is one.
Arcana's involvement or not, I think a month or two after CoH shuts down, most of the people on these forums are going to be climbing the walls for a spiritual successor no matter who it's being offered by. . |
What are the things that define it to you ?
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For me, the core reasons I continued to play this game were:|
Originally Posted by Another_Fan
What is the spirit of the game ?
What are the things that define it to you ? |
1. Superheroes
2. Character creation
3. Tolerable gameplay
There were not a lot of options for number 1, and when a couple came along they didn't do 2 & 3 as well as this game (which is pretty sad, given that I found the gameplay here to be merely "tolerable"). One of those has improved to the point where if it had been like it is now when it launched it would've been a tough decision for me to stick with this game, despite a few ongoing frustrations.
Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound
For quite some time I've been toying with the idea of a more lightweight hero-themed game, that had some of the social/teaming aspects of CoX but a very different structure.
The idea is more of a board game set-up, where players would work together to "beat the map". Characters' only persistence between games would be in non-gameplay aspects (things like badges, reputation, etc); during the game you would "level up" but only insofar as the map required you to in order to achieve victory (or defeat). If anyone has played Arkham Horror, it's very similar to that in concept, although with a more online feel: custom characters, probably some kind of "classes" or what CoX calls archetypes, etc. Also, player-created missions would be a little less problematic in that kind of structure, since overly unbalanced play would only affect the one mission/map and would presumably get weeded out due to boredom.
Anyway, bit of a tangent, but I wonder if a game like that could cover some of the better things about CoX while being a little more friendly to interruptions and mobile play.
And for a while things were cold,
They were scared down in their holes
The forest that once was green
Was colored black by those killing machines
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For 1 there is only two games that are specifically superhero themed mmo (CO and DCUO) and one more which you have been considered to an extent to a superhero ingame by some NPC (TSW) there maybe more for second ones but it is hard to say.|
Originally Posted by Tenzhi
For me, the core reasons I continued to play this game were:
1. Superheroes 2. Character creation 3. Tolerable gameplay There were not a lot of options for number 1, and when a couple came along they didn't do 2 & 3 as well as this game (which is pretty sad, given that I found the gameplay here to be merely "tolerable"). One of those has improved to the point where if it had been like it is now when it launched it would've been a tough decision for me to stick with this game, despite a few ongoing frustrations. |
For 2 among three previous option only one comes close to CoH it has a steady addition of options as well but most options are money shop gated (you can convert a type of ingame currency to money shops but it is more grinding oriented)
For 3 among three options all have their own way and for some people it maybe tolerable while not for others. I find TSW's controls fairly easy and maybe closest to CoH among three (actually I find it a little better than CoH but that is my opinion), if there was not block mechanics CO's controls are similiar to TSW (or considering release dates TSW's controls are similiar to CO's) not sure about DCUO but considering it is made console friendly I doubt it will be an easy conversion to count as a tolerable gameplay unless you were already accustomed to third-person shooting games in consoles.
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I like that idea.|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
It wouldn't be an MMO. Hear me out. If I were making City of Heroes today, it would be a stand alone single player game.
Or rather, it would start like one. I would make a game client that would reproduce, to the best extent possible (at least to start) all of the gameplay I love in City of Heroes as a stand alone game that anyone could play solo, forever, without needing any other resources. Everything, from the character creator to the mission content would be run entirely on your PC. It would be the solo version of City of Heroes.. |
But then I would take this stand alone single player City of Heroes and recreate the MMO from scratch, without any of the design baggage of the past.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Lets take this in stages. We start with a stand alone City of Heroes. And then we add global chat. That's not hard: there are a million ways to make global chatting systems, we just need to integrate one of them into the single player game. So while running around in single-player CoH, you can chat with your friends. You'd have the same CoH global chat communities we have now, you just couldn't actually team with anyone
So lets add teaming. Single player games already have the means to allow for LAN play and cooperative play, we'll let the single player game connect to other single player games and play cooperatively. So if you want to play CoH with four friends, no problem. But what about your fifty guildmates?. |
-Female Player-
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Originally Posted by mauk2
Evil_Legacy became one of my favorite posters with two words.
"Kick Rocks." I laffed so hard.  Never change, E_L! |
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Originally Posted by Mind Forever Burning
For quite some time I've been toying with the idea of a more lightweight hero-themed game, that had some of the social/teaming aspects of CoX but a very different structure.
The idea is more of a board game set-up, where players would work together to "beat the map". Characters' only persistence between games would be in non-gameplay aspects (things like badges, reputation, etc); during the game you would "level up" but only insofar as the map required you to in order to achieve victory (or defeat). If anyone has played Arkham Horror, it's very similar to that in concept, although with a more online feel: custom characters, probably some kind of "classes" or what CoX calls archetypes, etc. Also, player-created missions would be a little less problematic in that kind of structure, since overly unbalanced play would only affect the one mission/map and would presumably get weeded out due to boredom. Anyway, bit of a tangent, but I wonder if a game like that could cover some of the better things about CoX while being a little more friendly to interruptions and mobile play. |
It's interesting that you bring up Arkham Horror. I haven't played that, but I did play Betrayal at House on the Hill recently. They both seem like cool foundations for a game.
Here's a partial description of Betrayal for people who haven't heard of it, from the 2010 reprint press release:
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Betrayal at House on the Hill is a tile game that allows players to build their own haunted house room by room, tile by tile, creating a new thrilling game board every time. The game is designed for three to six people, each of whom plays one of six possible characters. Secretly, one of the characters betrays the rest of the party, and the innocent members of the party must defeat the traitor in their midst before it’s too late! Betrayal at House on the Hill will appeal to any game player who enjoys a fun, suspenseful, and strategic game. Betrayal at House on the Hill includes detailed game pieces, including character cards, pre-painted plastic figures, and special tokens, all of which help create a spooky atmosphere and streamline game play. |
1) Make All Enemies Level-less - All around, everywhere. What's Green is Green and what's Purple is Purple. What increases as you get more powerful is your ability to deal with them more efficiently.
2) Greatly Reduce Street Spawns / Introduce More Zone Events - Make street encounters more meaningful and encourage teaming and community to work together to succeed.
3) Make PvP and PvE simultaneous zone event success/failure effect each other - Trigger spawns, events, missions, buffs, debuffs, etc.
4) Make Badges mean a little more - Unlock special missions for acquiring certain defeat badges vs a certain group thereby offering you a unique reward table.
5) Better Story Arc Rewards for All - Upon completion of the final mission of a story arc, all team members receive a reward table offering them choices such as Reward Merits, an Enhancement Converter, etc.
6) Make unwanted IOs more useful - Disassemble unwanted IOs to receive a chance for unique temporary powers (weaker versions of bank missions), etc.
Might stop by and add more later... but work calls.
PEACE!
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Original Guild Wars did something very much like this, and I really disliked it a lot.|
Originally Posted by SupaFreak
1) Make All Enemies Level-less - All around, everywhere. What's Green is Green and what's Purple is Purple. What increases as you get more powerful is your ability to deal with them more efficiently.
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I get some of the reasons people dislike the level-based combat threat systems, but I think, ultimately, CoH ended up somewhere that really gave a best-of-breed combination of them. (Notice I said "a", not "the" best-of-breed.) Against stuff that it made gameplay sense to have be a roughly equal challenge to everyone, you had (mostly) leveleless foes. Against stuff that it would suck to have to worry about (hellions in Atlas park attacking 50+1s), you didn't.
I think that, done well, there's room for both systems, and I would dislike one where everything is levelless as much if not more than something where everything had a fixed level and would be "gray" or "purple" to based on relative levels.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
Rather than start a new thread for it I have to ask: Has Matt Miller or the others expressed any opinion either way about doing a spiritual successor to CoH? I mean, I know that final bell hasn't rung here yet but I'm curious and I'm honestly just looking for something to hope for.
I can see how this is something they may want to, but I can also see why they may be burnt out on super heroes and how they may want to move on to something else. Like I said, it's too early to say anything, I just want to know if the desire is there.
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