Reworking the Mez System.

A few Coffee Talks ago, someone asked a question about giving Blasters mez protection as part of their upcomming buffs. The reply was that this wasn't going to happen, but the devs voiced their opinion that the mez system could stand up be updated/modernized (I don't recall the exact phrasing).

This past weekend I dusted off some long-neglected characters and ran them through some Double XP. I usually play melee ATs and last weekend reminded me why. With that fresh in my mind, I'd like to present my opinion on what's wrong with the current system.

First, in general the feeling I get is mez is far too effective when enemies employ it against players than when players employ it against enemies. This is because the enemies are stacking the Hell out out of it, rapidly and repeatedly, from multiple sources while you as a single player can only cast it as fast as your powers recharge. If you are faced with just two mezzing enemies on equal ground and you yourself can mez, you can loose this encounter. While you are attempting to mez one enemy, and he you, even if it's a draw, the second enemy will keep mezzing you even while the first frees himself.

Furthermore, there are simply too many player powers the "don't do what they're supposed to". Now, I put this in quotation because while the powers in question may be working as intended, they fail to work far too often in my opinion: Fear powers that don't fear the target when I use them. ST Immobs that don't immobilize. Confuse powers that fizzle.

Now, the actual reasons for these powers failing can be varied, and that's part of the problem in my opinion. First, the enemy can simply be resistant to that kind of mez because that's their schtick. Second, the conning/Rank systems comes into play. Third, missing/accuracy checks means your power may not have even reached the target.

These three conditions feel far too random to me. If a player is trying to learn how to approach a gameplay situation, say, what kind of mez power is effective to use on Trolls, the other two conditions just obfuscate the issue and they learn little from their failure.

Also, regarding the Rank system versus mez; I fail to see the need for single target mez powers that are not effective on at least Bosses. Rarely do I have to mez a single Minion. Yes, there are edge cases like Sappers, but in general if I'm mashing Scare it's because a Boss is running right at me.


So, with all that said, here are some suggestions/ideas

-Reduce the number of conditions for mez to fail when players use it. This means removing protection of some kinds of mez from some enemy groups that cover too wide a range or making some mez powers work more reliably on Bosses. Or even consider making a few of them autohit so accuracy isn't a fail point.

-Provide easy to understand feedback why the mez is ineffective and why it failed. As simple as having "Resisted" in text appearing over the target's head if they have protection for that mez type and "Ineffective" if that mez power doesn't work on that Rank of foe.

-Prevent chain mezzing of players by granting players a brief period of mez protection after they're freed, even if it's just the mez timer running out.

-This may not fit with the vision of the game, but perhaps allow a way for players to break out of a mez faster by tapping a button. A very arcade-like mechanic but I feel it would be more productive than players furiously trying to combine inspirations into a Break Free or sitting there unable to do anything while being chain mezzed.

-This is just a pet peeve of mine, but allow Break Frees to cancel out -Fly, -Jump and Run Speed debuffs.



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The primary problem with the Mez System in CoH is its Boolean nature.

Are you Mezzed (Y/N)?

This means that Mez effects are either "All ON" or otherwise "All OFF" and there's not a whole lot of middle ground (ie. none). The problem with this formulation is that you don't have degrees of impairment that are meaningful when targets are affected by Mez, but haven't completely succumbed to the effect. In point of fact, pretty much the only Mez effect that shows a "degrees of impairment" scale are Slows ... and even then, anything less than a 1/3rd reduction in speed/recharge is hard to detect/sense in actual gameplay.

This sort of thing carries over into all kinds of other aspects of the game ... such as Regeneration Debuffing (where the values need to be "HUGE" to maintain the ALL or NOTHING flavor of the game) and Defense Debuffing, where even just a pair of "unimpressive" Defense Debuffs can negate an entire powerset devoted to Defense as a means of protection (hence the presence of Defense Debuff Resistance to bring Defense sets some parity with how Resistance inherently "resists" being debuffed by Resistance Debuffs "for free").

Basically, the Mez System in use in CoH is extremely simple ... and extremely limited (and limiting) in the kinds of situations it can model and produce. Suffice it to say, if the Devs (today) had a second shot at building the Mez System for CoH from the ground up ... I sincerely doubt they'd do things exactly the same way as was done prior to game launch.

It's the end. But the moment has been prepared for ...

Generally, I love to play mezzers. I don't find the system overly-complicated... until I try to explain it to someone who is fresh to the game. Then I've got to pause a moment and think about how long it took me to really start playing my controllers well, and I'll have to admit there is some learning curve. To really play the role of the mezzer well, one has to know their own powers as well as the enemies protections and the threats they pose. That, I think, is what leads to some of the satisfaction of playing a mezzer well. (When someone compliments the use of Wormhole rather than lament the knockback, it puts a smile on my face.)

Overall, while I do enjoy the use of mez, I must admit it has it's flaws. As Redlynne points out, the ON/OFF nature of it is sometimes frustrating. I think the best example of the weakness of that system comes from the PToD, which for the most part shuts of any mitigation provided by mez 2/3 of the time. How it works on AVs scaled down to EBs is immensely annoying. I have often wished for PToD that shifted between periods of protection (immune to all but hold for 25 seconds then immune to all but stun for 25 seconds, etc. while maintaining the hole for immobilize) that would encourage smarter play than the brute force tactic of stacking 54+ mag.

I'd say the worst problem is being mezzed for too long.

Get rid of chain mezzing with a suppression mechanism like Johnny suggests.

Change those Mag 3 30 second stun grenades to Mag 5 15 seconds or soemthing. This way a Scrapper can still get overpowered by a big horde of Malta, but Blasters etc dont spend the whole mission staggering. Having a break free wear off and till be stunned is the worse - give Break Frees some mez resistance as well so this doesnt happen.

First I absolutely agree with the OP, but I'd like to add something:

I believe that if complete status protection for all characters isn't an option, those without protection should be able to actively remove mez. ie: "Stunned! Press the following random sequence of keys in the order that they pop up in order to break the stun!" "x!" "a!" "b!" "Success! Stun broken!" This would add a whole new level of active play to the game while ridding unfair "perma mez" situations that aren't challenging, since you don't even have the opportunity to be challenged when you can't move or react in any way.

Y'know, part of me gets irritated when the people crying out loudest for mez protection make up lame excuses why they can't carry Break frees. I carry 4 at ALL times on ALL characters, and I've never had a problem. Except then I realized there's badges for BEING mezzed and so after 5 years on my badger (a nice and squishy controller) finally hard to farm for them by standing in front of a sapper all night.

By the same token, not even my blaster has a single mez-taken badge, and only the first debt badge. I guess -I-'m the one doing something terribly wrong if Blasters have such a great ability to get mezzed and faceplant =/

That said, the few times i HAVE been mezzed, I find it greatly cathartic to mash a button (usually an attack), so I guess it WOULD be cool if that did SOMEthing.

Personally I think there is nothing specifically wrong with a mezz system that is on/off. That is how mezz typically works in RPGs (not all of them, but many). The reason for it is it makes it very easy to communicate how impaired the enemy is/you are.

So what is different about City of Heroes compared to other games? A few things:


Unlimited potions. We call them "inspirations," but they serve the same role. Our ability to access inspirations without a cooldown makes the game very hard to balance. A lot of people think unlimited potions in this game grants us power beyond what we'd get in another MMO; in actuality, what they do is make everything balanced around the idea that you should manage potions, which is why it's considered perfectly acceptable to have an end-boss that can kill some characters in one hit or mezz them to death. Should have brought the right potion!

Deadliness. City of Heroes is the only game I have ever played where getting mezzed shuts off your armor. In most MMOs, a mezz lowers your defense somewhat, but it almost never completely removes it like CoX does. This is related to the next item:

Melee immunity. The deadliness of mezz means that it's much too devestating to hit melee characters with it, so they are just made mostly immune. This puts the burden on only a couple of classes.

Duration. Enemy mezz lasts a very long time relative to other MMOs. Why are these durations considered okay? Because of unlimited potions.

You can't potion while mezzed without an anti-mezz potion. Here's where it comes full circle. While getting mezzed is certainly dangerous, what makes it extremely powerful for enemies is it blocks the use of any potion except a specific one, in a game based on infinite potions to get you through alive. Think about this for a second. A Scrapper can generally eat a green, purple, orange or whatever no matter what she is fighting. Not so anyone who is easily mezzed. If you could eat greens, purples, and oranges while mezzed, surviving it would be much easier.

mezz should not stack on PC's. I understand that you might want an AV to be able to mezz any character and give them a huge mag, but lots of minions should not mezz a tanker.

mezz should have a supression afterwards. Being mezzed for 10 seconds is okay for a squishy - it is something you have to deal with. Being chain mezzed is terrible gameplay.

mezz not working when a PC hits an NPC is something you have to deal with. I play doms and controllers most of the time. If you could use the same tactics against every enemy group it would be boring. Some are immune to knockdown, some to sleep, etc. You learn and deal with it and it makes the game interesting

The way I wouldn't mind seeing mezz work is a lot closer to how it works in PVP. I don't mean the 3 second duration, but I do mean shorter duration and more emphasis on mezz resistance instead of mezz protection. It has always made more sense to me that anyone who is resistant to mezz would end up getting out of a situation easier, instead of being completely immune to the situation. Higher tiers of enemies have higher resistances, and the purple patch will also take effect, but this would allow even SO enhanced controllers and dominators be much more potent to high level enemies with their abilities, instead of firing off enough mezzes to eventually see an effect.

The negative being that the mezz system for all enemies would have to be reworked from the ground up. Of course, the side effect being that anyone can be chain held even with reduced mezz duration and mezz resistance, so there would have to be some kind of diminishing return system to save players with no mezz resistance. That, or just really reduce the mezz on duration on enemy mezzes. The powers that de-toggle with mezz will also have to be changed to nearly none at all. It is a lot of work, but Rome wasn't built in a day.

Excellent Post Mister Butane. I even have Mezz issues on a Dom....especially if I get mezzed at the beginning of battle. After Fighting Malta On Live a few weeks ago I actually had to sit down and ask myself...

"Seriously, why am I playing a Ranged Toon?" After leveling a Stalker and Scrapper during DBXP and getting my Dom wiped out by Malta in one mish back to back, to back to back it hit me.

I am a 98% Ranged person and I have found myself drifting away from my toons altogether due to so many performance issues compares to meleers but unfortunately I can't Stand Melee so I'm stuck.

The new changes are nice though and I'm eager to see how things will be with the New IO set Bonuses.

What if mez just worked differently on players than it did on NPCs? Here's my idea to make it not binary:

Each point of magnitude would lock you out of one power, similar to exemplaring. Also similar to Defiance 2.0.

So a level 50 blaster with a mag three stun would lose his epics. A level 22 would lose the three most recent power picks. Defiance for blasters could still work as normal, just preventing the last three powers from being mezzed away.

Brawl and the origin temp would be exempt from mez, so no matter what, you could always do something. Incarnate powers might be exempt. Mez protection would work the same as it does, reducing the mag applied.

How to remedy the binary nature of Mez:
1. Fear and KB/KD, repel, confuse get an attached -acc or -tohit : use BF and/or acc to remedy.
2. Sleep, stun/disorient - get a -rech added : use BF and/or blue/greens that now help resist slows.
3. Holds, immobs, teleport get a -dam component and travel suppression : use BF and/or oranges/purples to remedy. No longer on/off just longer delay to cast.
4. Taunt/playcate - BFs and reds

small = mag 2 res, med = mag 4, large = mag 6
The corresponding mag to debuff numbers would have to be hashed out. I wont venture guesses (unless someone likes this well enough to flesh it out more for submission).

BF's would still be binary to the mez (the choice option), but more options of dealing with the mez are now available.

So (real fast cause I be work'n)... Mez is fine and yes I do understand the OP. Not all ATs and power sets have mez protection and I find this to be fine. If you give everyone mez protection, then why take Clear mind type powers. And I know that the OP did not say that everyone should get mez protection.

Why do the group of mez'n baddies cause a mez effect on you? And why do you miss a few? Your trying to mez a group and a few miss. If they never missed then why bother playing. Auto hit, is what your looking for and that would be boring after 5 mins. Look at the knockdown proc in bonfire (pre-nerf). Fun for 5 mins and that's it. So we need to miss.

Now if you play at a higher lvl you learn what baddies are threats. The ones that mez need to be stopped. So those high mag hold powers are what you use... first... on them. Then you can spam the lower mag powers. Yes, you will still miss and you should miss.

The baddies don't miss? The OP answered this. If they have more than one Mez and it's a group and your solo. If your on a team and you get mez's it's an aggro issue. The Tanks (and no i do not mean just Tankers) have mez protction. They are supposed to take aggro. If they do, they will get the mez attacks and they will fail to do anything. Lets face it.. the baddies are all dumb. They should target our controllers/doms 1st.

And then...yes... break frees (or someone with a clear mind style power). Its what they are for.

The idea of an mez mini game with botton mashing isn't really the style of game play that this game uses. If I want God of War...i'll play GoW.

The new IO set bonuses have some new Mez Res... that might help. But IMO if it ain't broke.... well you know.