Is Psychic Blast/Kinetics just a really bad combo?


Aurora_Girl

 

Posted

I busted out my low-level Psychic Blast/Kinetics corruptor yesterday, and while I got her bumped up to level 10, it was a horribly frustrating experience:

• Inability to hit - It was appalling how difficult it was to actually hit my enemies with ... anything. I've harped on this before, about ToHit/Accuracy issues in the low-level game, but based on the constant denial of the problem I get back from other players, I'm starting to suspect that there is a problem with the "Beginner's Luck" bonus in the Mac version of the game not functioning properly, because what I see in the game does not match up with what other people seem to see (and it's safe to assume that everybody responding to my complaints is playing on a Windows machine, not a Mac). But in any case, the problem is even worse on this particular character.

• Low damage - her attacks, when they hit, seemed to do little damage to enemies, particularly in comparison to my Psychic Blast blasters. It was taking forever to defeat anything, even with the help of possessing a Blackwand and a Nemesis Staff to provide additional attacks.

• Ineffectiveness of non-damage effects: Subdue, when it hit, frequently failed to immobilize even same-level minions. I'm aware of the need to apply mezzes 2-3 times before they'll fully affect lieutenants and higher-level enemies; I've very rarely had to repeatedly apply mezzes to same-level minions on other characters. Similarly, while doing a Kings Row safeguard, Martial Gloom walked right through my Repel shield, stunned me into complete helplessness, and kicked me to death while I could do nothing. Twice. This was exacerbated by the fact that he got to me in the bank lobby while I was still trying and failing to defeat the entire group of Skulls there. So when I rezzed at the hospital and ran to the escape point to try to stop him there, he arrived with the entire group of Skulls in tow and proceeded to stunlock/kick me to death again.

• Endurance issues - I realize this is largely due to the way Repel works, but I kept finding myself running completely out of Endurance while attempting to take out a single group of three same-level minions. Of course, in addition to Repel, the previously-stated problems with ToHit, damage, and ineffective other powers contribute to running out of endurance before the enemies are down, purely because it just takes way too long to put them down.

Now, I can solo effectively on pretty much all of my other characters, which include other corruptors, even at low levels. But trying to solo on this particular character has proven to be nothing but an exercise in frustration. So I have to wonder, did I just have the misfortune of running into a ridiculously bad RNG streak (that went on for more than an hour), or is Psychic Blast/Kinetics just a really bad combination? Will it get better at higher levels, or should I just reroll with a different secondary?


 

Posted

Well, I can't speak for the Psi/Kin combo...but as for Martial Gloom, he uses Oppressive Gloom, IIRC, so yeah, it's gonna keep you stunned as long as you're in melee range, just like Vahz bosses.

I have a few Psi Blast characters, and I've never seen a problem with Subdual not immobilizing minions. If it hits, they're immob'd, pretty much 100% of the time.


Carl and Sons @Aurora Girl (Pinnacle)
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Posted

Beginners Luck is not generated by the client, it is on the to-hit from the server so MAC or WINdoze doesn't make a lick of difference there.

Honestly, I think it is observer bias. Save your combat tab and dump it into a spreadsheet, sort by misses and I think you'll see you hit a lot more than you think you do.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aurora_Girl View Post
but as for Martial Gloom, he uses Oppressive Gloom, IIRC, so yeah, it's gonna keep you stunned as long as you're in melee range
Geez, my DM/DA brute doesn't get access to OG until the mid-30s. Kinda cheesy springing that on level 9-10 characters, if you ask me.

Quote:
I have a few Psi Blast characters, and I've never seen a problem with Subdual not immobilizing minions. If it hits, they're immob'd, pretty much 100% of the time.
That's indeed the case for my blasters who have that power, but it didn't seem to be working consistently for this corruptor. Misses with ranged attacks are pretty obvious, and I could see it was hitting - it just didn't seem to be sticking.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeRobe View Post
Beginners Luck is not generated by the client, it is on the to-hit from the server so MAC or WINdoze doesn't make a lick of difference there.
Well, scratch that theory then

Quote:
Honestly, I think it is observer bias. Save your combat tab and dump it into a spreadsheet, sort by misses and I think you'll see you hit a lot more than you think you do.
In this safeguard scenario, what I observed was that in the time it took for Martial Gloom to run to the bank vault, empty it out, and return to the lobby, my character had failed to defeat a single one of the Skulls there, largely because she was failing to hit them. Which is why I acknowledged that I may have just had an extremely poor run of RNG luck. I should have been able to take down at least one of them in the time I had.

How do I save my combat tab? The 3rd-party tool somebody else recommended is Windows-only, but I gather from what you said that I can save my combat tab with an in-game command?


 

Posted

Yeah, herostats is great but it is Win only.

In game, go to options -> Windows -> Enable chat logging
Pull up your combat chat log and fight
The game will save a plain text log of what is in the chat window, including what you had to "roll", what you did roll and what your damage was. In Windows, this is in the CoH install folder -> logs subfolder. I don't know where it will put it in the Mac version.

You'd need to do a bit of spreadsheet magic to get it parsed but I think you'll find you are hitting much more than you think you are.


 

Posted

Wait until Fulcrum Shift...it gets better.


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Posted

Personally I'd say yes it is. I'm sure others will disagree, but I've always found psi blast weak, with its myth of being so great because it is "so rarely resisted". Same as you the only place I could enjoy it was with the higher base damage of a blaster (and a psi/fire blaster in my case so my secondary added a significant damage boost and gave me a non psi damage mix).

Kinetics at higher level will make it better so sticking it out may be worth it, but just be aware kinetics is more about offense, not defense, so you'll always be more squishy than a lot of the other secondaries, unless you IO/incarnate up significantly.


 

Posted

Subdue has an 80% chance of applying a mere 7 second Mag 3 immobilise if it hits. It is an unreliable control.

The Blaster Subdual in Mental Manipulation works 100% of the time when it hits, an applies a 17s Mag 3 immobilise, more like a Controller power with lowered magnitude.

Subdue in Psychic Blast is a flaky control power, its not just you, Rik.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Harmony View Post
Subdue has an 80% chance of applying a mere 7 second Mag 3 immobilise if it hits. It is an unreliable control.

The Blaster Subdual in Mental Manipulation works 100% of the time when it hits, an applies a 17s Mag 3 immobilise, more like a Controller power with lowered magnitude.

Subdue in Psychic Blast is a flaky control power, its not just you, Rik.
Immobilize is a flaky control type in general, and Subdual also deals its lower scale (1 vs 1.32) damage over a 9.2 second span while Subdue hits in one packet and costs less endurance.

Subdue is supposed to be used for damage, not to keep things in place - that's just a secondary effect that goes off more often than not. Subdual is supposed to keep things in place, and just happens to do a little bit of damage on top. If I had to choose only one, and there aren't any situations that place you in this other than AT selection which carries over into far more things than just these two powers, it would be the former.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mister Rik View Post
I busted out my low-level Psychic Blast/Kinetics corruptor yesterday, and while I got her bumped up to level 10, it was a horribly frustrating experience:

• Inability to hit - It was appalling how difficult it was to actually hit my enemies with ... anything. I've harped on this before, about ToHit/Accuracy issues in the low-level game, but based on the constant denial of the problem I get back from other players, I'm starting to suspect that there is a problem with the "Beginner's Luck" bonus in the Mac version of the game not functioning properly, because what I see in the game does not match up with what other people seem to see (and it's safe to assume that everybody responding to my complaints is playing on a Windows machine, not a Mac). But in any case, the problem is even worse on this particular character.
By level 10, Beginner's Luck is reduced to only +7% ToHit, which results in less than 1% better chance to hit than you'd be getting with a single Accuracy TO in each attack. Don't rely on Beginner's Luck passed like level 5.

Quote:
• Low damage - her attacks, when they hit, seemed to do little damage to enemies, particularly in comparison to my Psychic Blast blasters. It was taking forever to defeat anything, even with the help of possessing a Blackwand and a Nemesis Staff to provide additional attacks.
Outside of Scourge, Corruptors do only about 67% of the damage of Blasters. Also, it's difficult to compare Blaster Psi Blast to Corruptor/Defender Psi Blast because damage scales were shifted amongst powers.

Blaster Psi Dart is the same scale as Corruptor Mental Blast.
Blaster Mental Blast is the same scale as Corruptor's Telekinetic Blast.
Blaster's Telekinetic Blast is the same scale as Corruptor's Will Domination.
Blaster's Will Domination is almost the same scale as Corruptor's Subdue (0.08 less).

Quote:
• Ineffectiveness of non-damage effects: Subdue, when it hit, frequently failed to immobilize even same-level minions. I'm aware of the need to apply mezzes 2-3 times before they'll fully affect lieutenants and higher-level enemies; I've very rarely had to repeatedly apply mezzes to same-level minions on other characters. Similarly, while doing a Kings Row safeguard, Martial Gloom walked right through my Repel shield, stunned me into complete helplessness, and kicked me to death while I could do nothing. Twice. This was exacerbated by the fact that he got to me in the bank lobby while I was still trying and failing to defeat the entire group of Skulls there. So when I rezzed at the hospital and ran to the escape point to try to stop him there, he arrived with the entire group of Skulls in tow and proceeded to stunlock/kick me to death again.
Subdue only as an 80% chance to Immobilize; it's not guaranteed like Blaster's Subdual.

Regarding Martial Gloom, his stunning kicks are melee only, so if you want to avoid them you have to stay out of melee. This really isn't an issue with Kinetics or Psi Blast, or even Corruptors, though. It would be the tactic multiple ATs and powersets would have to use at that level.

Quote:
• Endurance issues - I realize this is largely due to the way Repel works, but I kept finding myself running completely out of Endurance while attempting to take out a single group of three same-level minions. Of course, in addition to Repel, the previously-stated problems with ToHit, damage, and ineffective other powers contribute to running out of endurance before the enemies are down, purely because it just takes way too long to put them down.
As you said, that's probably mostly due to Repel. Repel costs as much endurance to run as 3 toggles on a Melee character, and drains 1 Endurance every 0.5 seconds for enemies knocked away. If an enemy is close enough to be affected by multiple tics (or if they just don't get knocked away), they'll keep draining you at a rate of 2 points of endurance a second in addition to the cost just to keep the toggle on.

Repel should not be a power you keep on like Dispersion Bubble. You turn it on and off when absolutely necessary.

Quote:
Now, I can solo effectively on pretty much all of my other characters, which include other corruptors, even at low levels. But trying to solo on this particular character has proven to be nothing but an exercise in frustration. So I have to wonder, did I just have the misfortune of running into a ridiculously bad RNG streak (that went on for more than an hour), or is Psychic Blast/Kinetics just a really bad combination? Will it get better at higher levels, or should I just reroll with a different secondary?
I have a Kinetics/Psy Defender and I can tell you it gets better. And with the nuke changes in Issue 24, you better believe I'll be Fulcrum Shift+Psychic Wail-ing my way through every mission. It's just that Kinetics can be a fragile set before you have all the powers or at least teammates to take advantage of some of the earlier powers, though.


Trickshooter's Characters | @Trickshooter @Brightside

 

Posted

I have a Kin/Psy Defender which was my first Kin. It took me quite awhile to get him to 50, mainly due to frustration. Someone may have covered this already but the thing is both sets are late bloomers. This will probably lead to being frustrated until you get to 39ish and are able to select and slot Fulcrum Shift. Lucky for me since I was on a Defender things started looking up at 33.

Although Psy Blast seems weaker than other blast sets in base damage I enjoyed the increased range of the attacks which made hover blasting easier. I did of course and still do hate fighting robots with him though, and sadly iTrials are filled with them so I tend not to waste my time attacking and spend more time buffing.


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Posted

I am moving my Kin/Psi defender to another server since I don't play her much these days.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trickshooter View Post
By level 10, Beginner's Luck is reduced to only +7% ToHit, which results in less than 1% better chance to hit than you'd be getting with a single Accuracy TO in each attack. Don't rely on Beginner's Luck passed like level 5.
Yeah, +ACC is the first enhancement I plug into all of my attack powers, on every character.

Quote:
Regarding Martial Gloom, his stunning kicks are melee only, so if you want to avoid them you have to stay out of melee. This really isn't an issue with Kinetics or Psi Blast, or even Corruptors, though. It would be the tactic multiple ATs and powersets would have to use at that level.
Yeah, but in this case he apparently was able to completely ignore my Repel and stun me, and once I was stunned I was helpless, especially since all of his goons were still up (because I couldn't put them down) and helping him beat on me. Once I was stunned, I was defeated in about 2 seconds. I never had a chance to keep out of melee range because Subdual didn't subdue him and Repel didn't repel him.

In any case, I decided to just delete the character and reroll her as a Mind Control/Psionic Assault dominator. Those PSs fit the character concept better anyway (her name is Mental Miyuki).