it really bemuses me that this wasn't an option at launch.
it's like they've never used Steam or something.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
And what does the OP expect to happen when someone uses the feature to make unauthorized purchases for other peoples accounts? Say a child/angry spouse or BF/GF
Also NCSoft has already had a security problem where people were getting access to other players Master accounts by simply logging into their own accounts. From there they had access to the logins of all accounts on the Master Account and the ability to get/change passwords.
So if this feature and the store were in place when that was happening someone could easily increase another players credit card limit and then have a field day buying items for other players accounts.
A much safer and better idea would be to sell Paragon Point cards similar to Game/Time cards.
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Um..ok. Way to go right for the worst case scenario?? How about..you know..NOT opening said gift from your email? Rocket science I know but..come on. And besides, it IS a gift. What is there, buyable at the store, that you could 'grief gift' to someone you want to annoy? Name one, go on.|
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
And what does the OP expect to happen when someone uses the feature to make unauthorized purchases for other peoples accounts? Say a child/angry spouse or BF/GF
Also NCSoft has already had a security problem where people were getting access to other players Master accounts by simply logging into their own accounts. From there they had access to the logins of all accounts on the Master Account and the ability to get/change passwords. So if this feature and the store were in place when that was happening someone could easily increase another players credit card limit and then have a field day buying items for other players accounts. A much safer and better idea would be to sell Paragon Point cards similar to Game/Time cards. |
Selling PP cards would work. But..how do you 'give' them to someone? That is the whole POINT of the Gift idea. Buying a card for yourself..how is that different to just..buying points from the store?? And if you buy a card for someone else, it still leaves the 'issue' (according to you) of the other person getting it.
I can see it now..'Oh damn it to heck, my angry EX gifted me ANOTHER PP card! I so do hate that!'
Be reasonable.
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1. How about the worst case is exactly what the devs consider when looking at ideas like this.|
Originally Posted by MisterD
Um..ok. Way to go right for the worst case scenario?? How about..you know..NOT opening said gift from your email? Rocket science I know but..come on. And besides, it IS a gift. What is there, buyable at the store, that you could 'grief gift' to someone you want to annoy? Name one, go on.
Selling PP cards would work. But..how do you 'give' them to someone? That is the whole POINT of the Gift idea. Buying a card for yourself..how is that different to just..buying points from the store?? And if you buy a card for someone else, it still leaves the 'issue' (according to you) of the other person getting it. I can see it now..'Oh damn it to heck, my angry EX gifted me ANOTHER PP card! I so do hate that!' Be reasonable. |
2. How about the people "recieving" said gifts paid the person (see also RMTer) that hijacked the account real money for the items, just less than what NCSoft charges, via an out of game method that NCSoft can't confirm.
3. How about if the abuse is coming from a stupid kid/angry partner, they don't just give things away but award them as "prizes" for a Costume Contest, or Bio Contest, or other idea? That way the person receiving them thinks they earned it.
4. What about a situation where players have a falling out and the account holder decides he wants the gift he recently gave another person back by claiming his account was "hacked"?
5. The person being griefed isn't the person recieving the gift but the person whose account is being abused by being used to purchase unauthorized gifts.
6. You want a list of items that could be abused by disgruntled partners, stupid kids, or RMT hackers to grief/steal from the legitimate account holder?
Sure, here are some items.
Enhancement trays cost legitimate players $20 bucks
Other Storage increases that cost $10 bucks each
Bulk character slots purchase that cost $20 bucks
Respecs that cost $10 bucks
Bulk Mission Architect Slots that cost $20 bucks
Epic Archetype unlocks that cost $12 bucks
Signature Story Arc Collection that costs $30 bucks
Alignment Change Tokens that cost $10 bucks
Purple Attuned Enhancement Sets that cost $25 bucks
Bulk Enhancement Boosters that cost $22 bucks
MM/Troller AT unlocks that cost $15 bucks
Any Power Set that usually cost $10 bucks each
Bulk Super Packs that usually cost $18 bucks
8 hour XP Boosters that usually cost $12 bucks
Now another bonus of the Paragon Point cards idea is that the person applying the code from the card would get credit towards Paragon Rewards.
There's clearly security issues that would have to be addressed. But the same can be said of the Paragon Market, or of subscriptions in general, or of any financial transaction at all, online or otherwise. They've been solved to a satisfactory degree for similar things elsewhere and elsewhen; they could probably be solved here.
As Hopeling says..it could be solved. The difficulties have NOTHING to do with teh suggestion. Get over yourself Forbin. Should ever lil idea people have be put through your silly list of possible things that could go wrong?
Not to mention..IF it was done, and the devs, you know..just fixed any issues with security, and it just..worked?
How hard is it to just say..no, I dont like the idea, not sidetrack it with a list that just...does not matter? Why would I consider all that? Im not a dev, I dont program internet security. I made a suggestion I think would be helpful to the game..and also MAKE them money.
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If anyone needs to get over himself it's you. You seem to have forgotten that the purpose of posting in the Suggestion forums is to get BOTH positive and negative feedback so the OP can perfect his idea if he has overlooked anything.|
Originally Posted by MisterD
As Hopeling says..it could be solved. The difficulties have NOTHING to do with teh suggestion. Get over yourself Forbin. Should ever lil idea people have be put through your silly list of possible things that could go wrong?
Not to mention..IF it was done, and the devs, you know..just fixed any issues with security, and it just..worked? How hard is it to just say..no, I dont like the idea, not sidetrack it with a list that just...does not matter? Why would I consider all that? Im not a dev, I dont program internet security. I made a suggestion I think would be helpful to the game..and also MAKE them money. |
If you didn't want feedback you should have simply sent the suggestion directly to one of the devs (probably Zwill) via Private Message.
The Devs have already told us they'd like to have a method to gift points or items but that security concerns are what has been holding it back.
It's not just some twisted piece of Forbin's imagination that drives him to post the responses to this issue when it comes up, it's based on comments made by the Devs that are the basis for those posts.
If the game spit out 20 dollar bills people would complain that they weren't sequentially numbered. If they were sequentially numbered people would complain that they weren't random enough.
Black Pebble is my new hero.
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Yep, agreed. Raising security issues as a problem is valid, and the proper response is to try to think of ways to address them for this specific idea, or an alternate form of the idea that is more secure (a point card would be one method, since you could just tell the code to your intended recipient, although it wouldn't let you gift your monthly stipend and would be somewhat less convenient than having the whole process inside the game), not just poo-poo you as a worrywart and trust in the magic elves that figure out such things.|
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
the purpose of posting in the Suggestion forums is to get BOTH positive and negative feedback so the OP can perfect his idea if he has overlooked anything.
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Sometimes such criticisms come across a little bit like ye olde predictions that the human body cannot withstand the air resistance from a vehicle traveling at breakneck speeds in excess of 30mph, but that's just a matter of presentation
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Hey, I am fine with negative feedback. But really..you could have just said, in the same way Hopeling did, that the security is a big issue, and left it at that. I honestly did not even think of it. Because..ya know..i was just TRYING to make a decent suggestion and not get bogged down in crying utter doom about someones idea.|
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
If anyone needs to get over himself it's you. You seem to have forgotten that the purpose of posting in the Suggestion forums is to get BOTH positive and negative feedback so the OP can perfect his idea if he has overlooked anything.
If you didn't want feedback you should have simply sent the suggestion directly to one of the devs (probably Zwill) via Private Message. |
See me not attacking Hope? Cause his 'negative' feedback comes across as just that..feedback. Now, I dont know if you were intending to SOUND like a bit of posterior head wear, or if you just had a bad day. I know I have made some attacking posts too. Just that everything you said in your first response, came off as attacking my idea, flat out, because I should somehow have known the issue has security problems. Then you go and make a stupid list of ways in which security for gifts could be abused...which ALL come back to..oh look, a 'security issue.'
Well guess what smart guy..here is my rebuttal, to your 'feedback', so I can perfect my idea. You ready?
Store purchased Gifts, able to be sent to others. If there is any 'security issues' with this, FIX them all.
Done, perfect idea. See how easy that was? Almost as helpful as your feedback.
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This has obviously crippled Steam....it's a wonder Valve is still in business!|
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
And what does the OP expect to happen when someone uses the feature to make unauthorized purchases for other peoples accounts? Say a child/angry spouse or BF/GF
|
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| Also NCSoft has already had a security problem where people were getting access to other players Master accounts by simply logging into their own accounts. From there they had access to the logins of all accounts on the Master Account and the ability to get/change passwords. |
How about mommy and daddy just stop going to the bar, or put the house keys on one of those trucker chains.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
<gets popcorn>
**Damien**
"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind." ~Dr. Seuss.
"Going to church doesn't make you a Christian any more than standing in a garage makes you a car. "
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But mommy and daddy weren't leaving the house keys at the bar. Mommy and daddy had the keys with them at all times. The problem was that Stinky Pete was using his own house keys to get into his own house three thousand miles away and suddenly found himself in mommy and daddy's house instead of his own home, and while mommy and daddy were out with the family Stinky Pete made himself at home. Raided the kitchen, slept in everyones beds, and took everything that wasn't nailed down with him when he left.
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Originally Posted by Nethergoat
"We can't have nice things because mommy and daddy keep leaving the house keys at the bar" isn't much of a counter-argument.
How about mommy and daddy just stop going to the bar, or put the house keys on one of those trucker chains. |
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Agreed. They already addressed this issue and nobody should be personally attacked for conveying dev information just because it is not what they want to hear.
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Originally Posted by Texas Justice
The Devs have already told us they'd like to have a method to gift points or items but that security concerns are what has been holding it back.
It's not just some twisted piece of Forbin's imagination that drives him to post the responses to this issue when it comes up, it's based on comments made by the Devs that are the basis for those posts. |
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
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An object lesson about keeping your passwords SECRET.
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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
And what does the OP expect to happen when someone uses the feature to make unauthorized purchases for other peoples accounts? Say a child/angry spouse or BF/GF
|
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The system we have in place doesn't allow people to have seperate passwords for the market. If you can log into the game you have access to whatever CC is registered with the Master Account.|
Originally Posted by Quinch
An object lesson about keeping your passwords SECRET.
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But then that's what you get when you buy an off the shelf "market feature" from a third party vendor instead of paying for one that is specifically designed and tailored to our needs.
Other companies offer this functionality.
it would be a good business move for this one to do so as well.
I'm about as interested in hearing them whine about why they can't as I am hearing players whine about how this or that game system is "too hard".
It's been done. It's BEING done as we speak.
So get your act together and DO IT.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
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Originally Posted by Nethergoat
Other companies offer this functionality.
it would be a good business move for this one to do so as well. I'm about as interested in hearing them whine about why they can't as I am hearing players whine about how this or that game system is "too hard". It's been done. It's BEING done as we speak. So get your act together and DO IT. |
I would love to see something that allowed gifting done. I just don't want something half-pancaked added that isn't safe for us to use because the devs chose the fast cheap route like they did with the Store feature.
Obviously Forbin's well-versed in what we in the military call Operational Risk Management. You *have* to assume worst case scenario, because otherwise you're unprepared for it.
Magic elves or no magic elves.
Carl and Sons @Aurora Girl (Pinnacle)
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Originally Posted by EarthWyrm
But I do understand that there is an internet rule that any bad idea must be presented by someone at least twice a year to remind everyone who hasn't already read every previous thread on the topic precisely why the idea is bad.
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No plan ever survives first contact with the enemy. |
Originally Posted by Aurora_Girl
Obviously Forbin's well-versed in what we in the military call Operational Risk Management. You *have* to assume worst case scenario, because otherwise you're unprepared for it.
Magic elves or no magic elves. |
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Exactly.
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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
No plan ever survives first contact with the enemy.
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Carl and Sons @Aurora Girl (Pinnacle)
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Originally Posted by EarthWyrm
But I do understand that there is an internet rule that any bad idea must be presented by someone at least twice a year to remind everyone who hasn't already read every previous thread on the topic precisely why the idea is bad.
|
Its been almost a year and they can't even get the store interface to indicate what you have already bought. Or to use promo codes.
Even if they said today 'Right, Ignore any security concerns and lets add gifting!', I wouldn't expect to see it anytime in the forseeable future due to the amount of UI work and changes to the store they would have to make.
Always remember, we were Heroes.
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Let's also not forget that we recently had the Store down for maintenance while the third party vendors who created it could do some work on it. So it's probably very likely that they would be the ones that would have to make changes to the store interface.|
Originally Posted by Dr_Darkspeed
Its been almost a year and they can't even get the store interface to indicate what you have already bought. Or to use promo codes.
Even if they said today 'Right, Ignore any security concerns and lets add gifting!', I wouldn't expect to see it anytime in the forseeable future due to the amount of UI work and changes to the store they would have to make. |
As such they may not be willing to add such a feature to the basic store feature that was bought for this game. They may offer it in a more complex store feature but that probably costs more than what NCSoft was willing to invest when they decided on buying what we currently have.
This is the problem with outsourcing. Fast and cheap is rarely satisfactory.
If the store was developed in house, our devs could have unrestricted access to designing what the store allowed.
I am sure it has been suggested before but..
A friend was saying they have something like this on GW. I was looking at the weekly market stuff, and saw the IO licence on sale, and was thinking how nice it would be if I could spend a few of my PP, and Gift that to a friend.
Even better, if you could enter the name of the person your sending it to, and the system would check, to see if the person could use, or already had, that item. Such as gifting a friend a costume bit.
Then it could appear in the persons email, and opens like a Holiday event gift!