Thanks for all the stuff, can you do it better?
By
Ad Astra,
Posted on: 2012-08-13 09:23 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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Originally Posted by Blue_Centurion
Heh. I love this one. To paraphrase. "I am completely ignorant on the subject, by choice. However, I am sure I am right." I just wonder how I made it on his ignore list. Hmmmm.
Now that is just funny. |
No that isn't what he's saying at all. He's basing his opinion on your previous post history where you have repeatedly displayed entitlement issues and ridiculous arguments, and judging from the responses he can see from people agreeing and disagreeing with your current post that this is another example of why he put you on ignore in the first place.
After all one doesn't need to stand in the rain to know you'll get wet.
Personally while I think the tone of your post could have been worded better, I don't disagree with everything you've said you'd like.
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That's "entitled" the dynamic verb. It's ostensibly usually transitive, like most dynamic verbs, since you have to be entitled by someone. But there are plenty of intransitive uses.|
Originally Posted by Ironik
Not in the way the original response from Jack_noMind was phrased. "Entitled" in common usage (as opposed to the dictionary definition) The dictionary definition is the state of being given a title.
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I'm using "entitled" the stative verb, which I can't think of a transitive application for (not saying there isn't one, just can't think of one). It's also a fairly recent term, so it isn't in many dictionaries.
I really feel no need to neuter my language because some people can't distinguish between homonyms, tenses, or parts of speech. Nor do I accept the slippery slope argument that tone is irrelevant when "asking for new things." Technically, a demand is a form of request, but it carries an implicit consequence for failure to comply. Entitlement (as I'm using the term) is when a request is formed as a demand (that is, addressed and declarative: "You should," "You must," "You need to," etc) instead of as a query ("Could you," "Would it be possible to," etc) but the consequence of the demand is ridiculous -- and therefore usually unstated. (And of course, the demand is not being made ironically.)
(Oh, and I'm not saying it's "just" a homophone. The etymological path is fairly obvious, from "He was entitled to [X right or privilege]," to "He felt entitled to [X right or privilege]," to "He felt entitled (privilege previously indicated or implicitly universal)," into the concept 'entitled behavior', which then sort of comingled with the explicitly defined verb form. But I really can't accept nominalist arguments made just for the sake of nominalism.)
And I find the discussion of language to be far more salient and fascinating than most of the topic, although I admit Aurora_Girl's posts have made me chuckle.
Much obliged, good sir or madam. I do my best.
Carl and Sons @Aurora Girl (Pinnacle)
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Originally Posted by EarthWyrm
But I do understand that there is an internet rule that any bad idea must be presented by someone at least twice a year to remind everyone who hasn't already read every previous thread on the topic precisely why the idea is bad.
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Well thought out response Forbin. However after putting me on his ignore list Goat still feels the need to post in my threads telling me and everyone interacting with me he has me on the ignore list, is not reading my post, and still thinks I am wrong.|
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
No that isn't what he's saying at all. He's basing his opinion on your previous post history where you have repeatedly displayed entitlement issues and ridiculous arguments, and judging from the responses he can see from people agreeing and disagreeing with your current post that this is another example of why he put you on ignore in the first place.
After all one doesn't need to stand in the rain to know you'll get wet. Personally while I think the tone of your post could have been worded better, I don't disagree with everything you've said you'd like. |
Expletive Deleted of the day award to Nethergoat!
*facepalm*
Again, with the "you don't need to stand in the rain to know you'll get wet."
He feels he doesn't *need* to read your post to know the general tone of it. The specifics, to him, aren't important. He has constructed an idea of you and your contributions to the forum, and decided it's better for him if he doesn't actually read what you say. He's not trolling, necessarily, just expressing his opinion primarily because he was called out in a direct conflict due to his choice of wording.
Carl and Sons @Aurora Girl (Pinnacle)
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Originally Posted by EarthWyrm
But I do understand that there is an internet rule that any bad idea must be presented by someone at least twice a year to remind everyone who hasn't already read every previous thread on the topic precisely why the idea is bad.
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No it doesn't.
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Originally Posted by Tenzhi
Putting aside that the animations seem pretty darn vanilla to me, "classic comic book blasting" often involves knocking people back.
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The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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When the devs give us a non-unique, permanent means to attain that enhancement, I would agree with that.
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Originally Posted by Wing_Leader
Isn't there an IO out there that converts KB into knock down? Sounds like the perfect remedy for all those Energy Blast attacks that constantly knock enemies away from the melee characters on your team.
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The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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Very very well written post. Over my head. I would have my editor tear into it (free when you are married to one) but there is really no point. Because the heart of the flaw in NoMind's argument is right here. NoMind seems to have missed where I said "Can you do it better."|
Originally Posted by Jack_NoMind
Entitlement (as I'm using the term) is when a request is formed as a demand (that is, addressed and declarative: "You should," "You must," "You need to," etc) instead of as a query ("Could you," "Would it be possible to," etc) but the consequence of the demand is ridiculous -- and therefore usually unstated. (And of course, the demand is not being made ironically.)
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NoMind has taken issue with my "entitlement." Fair game, and in some ways absolutely correct. What NoMind missed is that this entire thread has been complimentary. Let me explain.
I have taken part in art reviews. When art is something you do not "get" or it is just really really bad there is not much that can be said in the critique. (For whatever reason, lack of effort, artist struggling with the medium, lack of focus, missed opportunities.) The critique becomes a sort of diagnosis of how to create art and get past a stumbling point, or devolves into well meaning tripe. When art is good it can be challenge to review. Many times the work you are reviewing inspires you, lifts you up. The challenge is to find the things in it that the artist can do better. What part of the work did they start to go somewhere, and was not going there intentional, and did it add to the work. Basically, can your perspective help the artist, or help the group you are with understand something about the piece.
So, my title "Thanks for all the stuff, can you do it better?" is a compliment. I like what I see here. I was clear about that. Can you do it better? Not "DO IT BETTER!" Not that it matters, but I spend quite a bit each month on the game. Cause I like it. I am voting with my dollars every month. I am patronizing CoH with cash, and I recommend you do too. There are things I want to be improved, and I look forward to whatever changes the Devs bring to the game. Hopefully they will work on issues dear to me, but it seems in the last couple years the old axiom "a rising tide lifts all boats" is the way in the cities. Really excellent work and loving the direction.
Do I have issues with some of the things that are being done, and how they are implemented? Yes. Do I come to the forums to see if others feel the way I do? Yes. Do I present ideas in the forum (mostly raw, it's how I roll!) YES!
I love the discussion. Thank you for all responses.
I think you're missing the point where we feel that saying "Thanks for all the stuff, but can you do it better?" implies that you don't *really* like what you've gotten, because you're asking for better.
It implies, through the phrasing, that you're not actually grateful for what you've received, because you're still asking for more. If you were truly satisfied, you wouldn't need more.
So, either you're satisfied or you're not. Kind of like pregnancy. There is no middle ground.
Carl and Sons @Aurora Girl (Pinnacle)
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Originally Posted by EarthWyrm
But I do understand that there is an internet rule that any bad idea must be presented by someone at least twice a year to remind everyone who hasn't already read every previous thread on the topic precisely why the idea is bad.
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Using your logic applied to what I just wrote either art is a kid scribbling on a paper and then giving it a little throw up to boot or one of Pablo Picasso's works. No middle ground. Pregnant with meaning or void. I utterly reject your argument.
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Personally, I find it incredibly poor taste to comment on something you haven't read, irrespective of circumstances. And I know because I've done so, myself, and realise what a colossal *** I was when I did it. There's a reason the Evil Geko has me on ignore, or at least said he'd do it, and it IS my fault.
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Originally Posted by Aurora_Girl
He feels he doesn't *need* to read your post to know the general tone of it. The specifics, to him, aren't important. He has constructed an idea of you and your contributions to the forum, and decided it's better for him if he doesn't actually read what you say. He's not trolling, necessarily, just expressing his opinion primarily because he was called out in a direct conflict due to his choice of wording.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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hmm, wanting to move the thread back to changes on sets, but it is rounding the corner to devolved. thanks again for all the posts though.
What does art have anything to do with it? And who's to say Picasso's art was any good?
Art is ENTIRELY subjective. People who think nude 40-year-olds rolling around in grease paint is fantastic artistic expression. Others think it's a naked dude rolling around.
This game, and the content created by its developers, is not the same. I cannot express more clearly that the "Thanks for this! Do it better!" screams to me ungrateful entitlement.
Again, I bring it back to the complaints I receive at work every single day. People don't complain because they want the quality of their restaurant experience improved, they call expecting a handout because in most cases that's all we do. They feel, because of a simple human error, they are entitled to free food. It's infuriating.
You like what you've gotten? Great! That's pancaking fantastic. Do you have suggestions on other things you'd like? Awesome! Go put that in the suggestions forum.
I, personally, believe the "Generic Powerset where I get to choose whatever animation I want" idea is ludicrous and will give you the benefit of the doubt in posts in the future, but I can see that you'll never understand why what you're saying *right now* in *this thread* is counterproductive and offensive to the people who are creating what you say you enjoy...so...I'll bow out, and utterly reject *your* argument, good sir or madam.
Carl and Sons @Aurora Girl (Pinnacle)
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Originally Posted by EarthWyrm
But I do understand that there is an internet rule that any bad idea must be presented by someone at least twice a year to remind everyone who hasn't already read every previous thread on the topic precisely why the idea is bad.
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Good stuff. Reminds me of an old riddle:|
Originally Posted by Jack_NoMind
That's "entitled" the dynamic verb. It's ostensibly usually transitive, like most dynamic verbs, since you have to be entitled by someone. But there are plenty of intransitive uses.
<snip grammar lesson> |
Q: How do you get an English Major's attention?
A: Call out, "Hey, Waiter!"
I kid, I kid.
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Well, we are discussing changes to a superhero roleplaying games "skins" graphics and effects. Secondly, I brought up specifically to discuss how I discuss how something could or should be changed. |
Originally Posted by Aurora_Girl
What does art have anything to do with it? And who's to say Picasso's art was any good?
Art is ENTIRELY subjective. People who think nude 40-year-olds rolling around in grease paint is fantastic artistic expression. Others think it's a naked dude rolling around. |
Who's to say Picasso's art was any good. Excellent question. Research and discuss next week with the class.
Art IS entirely subjective. Sometimes nude 40 year olds rolling around in grease is artistic expression, sometimes it is just a nude dude rolling around. Do you know what would make it art? There is the question.
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This may just be me, but I didn't read anything into the title. Maybe it's just my own bias talking, but to me, titles are intended to draw attention to the thread itself, and I'm as guilty of anyone when I make titles like "I hate Katie Douglass!" when the rest of the thread isn't intended to be a rant so much as a deconstruction.
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Originally Posted by Aurora_Girl
This game, and the content created by its developers, is not the same. I cannot express more clearly that the "Thanks for this! Do it better!" screams to me ungrateful entitlement.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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What's funny to me is, if you read "In My Opinion" into his remark, he becomes 100% correct. His opinion is his own, and it doesn't matter if his opinion is based on current information or past experience.|
Originally Posted by Blue_Centurion
Heh. I love this one. To paraphrase. "I am completely ignorant on the subject, by choice. However, I am sure I am right." I just wonder how I made it on his ignore list. Hmmmm.
Now that is just funny. |
Likewise, whether anyone else thinks he's full of it or dead on target is irrelevant, since that's their opinion. Like the comments on art upthread, it's all subjective.
I get amused by the strangest things.
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And that's why I very very rarely ignore anyone. This stuff can be priceless.
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Originally Posted by Elf_Sniper
I get amused by the strangest things.
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You are absolutely right. |
Originally Posted by Aurora_Girl
I cannot express more clearly that the "Thanks for this! Do it better!" screams to me ungrateful entitlement.
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But have the honesty to admit that you created a strawman and are arguing against it. Because your quote is not what the OP said. It is what you invented to rail against because you have a personal ax to grind.
"Thanks for all the stuff, can you do it better?" is no doubt much harder to rail against since it is a question not a command.
I cannot express more clearly than "I am going to make up something, pretend you said it, and then get mad at you for saying it" screams to me of misdirected anger.
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
Personally, I find it incredibly poor taste to comment on something you haven't read, irrespective of circumstances.
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I don't want to wade into this myself, but I agree with you. IMO it is bad form tp join a thread just to say you didn't actually read the post but don't need to because you dislike the poster.
Also, like you, I have been guilty of lashing at people based on previous conflicts. It's an easy thing to do. So, even in calling out some of the bad behavior in this thread I don't want to put permanent labels on people.
For the record, I do have a few people on ignore. I try to use it as a warning tool FOR ME though, to stop me from responding reflexively with snark. I think a few of the people on my list know about because I told them I thought we should disengage. But IMO once the decision to end communication is made, continuing to lob insults at them (especially without actually reading what they have to say) escalates the situation. While I have no illusions about eventually being friendly with every single poster on the forums, I do generally believe in maintaining some level of civility. I also often suspect the people I clash most publicly with are some of the same people I would get along with best in real life.
Also, I thought what the OP wrote was fine. It's no different than writing a review of an expansion pack. "Expansion pack could have been better." Players do not stick with a game based on level of effort of the developers, they decide based on whether they like the game. I know our developers work very hard. I know developers for most video games work hard. This does not translate into an obligation to like most video games.
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I didn't make anything up. Whether it's a question or a demand is irrelevant. It's ungrateful either way. If your friend/wife/husband/parent/bum on the street gave you a brand new car, and you said "thanks for all the new car, can you make it better?" doesn't that seem ungrateful to you? At all?|
Originally Posted by dugfromthearth
You are absolutely right.
But have the honesty to admit that you created a strawman and are arguing against it. Because your quote is not what the OP said. It is what you invented to rail against because you have a personal ax to grind. "Thanks for all the stuff, can you do it better?" is no doubt much harder to rail against since it is a question not a command. I cannot express more clearly than "I am going to make up something, pretend you said it, and then get mad at you for saying it" screams to me of misdirected anger. |
If it doesn't, then I might as well be typing in Sanskrit, as that's a complete difference in outlook.
As to the *actual* original suggestion...still, no. It's not ever going to happen that way, because the powers, their animations, their animation times, and their secondary effects are all used in the combinations they are used for a reason. Any alternate animations have to have exactly the same animation times as the present ones, in order to maintain balance. Picking and choosing whether you want a TAOE or a PBAOE is not balanced. Deal with the restrictions placed upon you by the way the game is designed and expand your conceptualization as such, or don't play the game.
Carl and Sons @Aurora Girl (Pinnacle)
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Originally Posted by EarthWyrm
But I do understand that there is an internet rule that any bad idea must be presented by someone at least twice a year to remind everyone who hasn't already read every previous thread on the topic precisely why the idea is bad.
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It seems more like buying a new car, realizing it's not *quite* what you wanted in a dream car, and then asking the car makers if they could make the changes that would make it your dream car for the next car that you buy.
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Originally Posted by Aurora_Girl
I didn't make anything up. Whether it's a question or a demand is irrelevant. It's ungrateful either way. If your friend/wife/husband/parent/bum on the street gave you a brand new car, and you said "thanks for all the new car, can you make it better?" doesn't that seem ungrateful to you? At all?
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The title seems to say "Thanks for this awesome pad thai ... but I wanted pizza." Regardless. Buh-bye thread.
@bpphantom
The Defenders of Paragon
KGB Special Section 8
Whoops, we have a mixed metaphor:
When you buy a car, you choose it. If it doesn't have everything you want, that's your own fault.
When you're given a car, you don't choose it. Everything in it, whether you want it or not, is more than you had before.
We don't get to pick and choose which content we receive. It's given to us. I don't have *any* issue with suggesting new ideas, new mechanics or new implementations of things (my own signature notwithstanding). That's why we have an entire Suggestions forum.
I take issue with the way this particular suggestion was implemented, as though needing to preface it by saying "Don't get me wrong, I love what you're doing here, BUT..." sounds condescending. The way people in the South get made fun of for saying "Bless her heart, God love her, but your sister is just a syphilis farm." What, I said "bless her heart", that makes it okay.
It's the same as another recently active poster who starts every thread with "I don't believe in the defense mechanic, and here's why..." like they need to justify the point before it's even made.
Blue, I'm sorry if it seems like I'm unreasonably angry at you, because I'm not. I like to see new suggestions when they make sense. I just worry that your suggestion (and truthfully, whether it makes sense or not isn't up to me; I don't write the code) won't be taken seriously when you caveat it beforehand. All you have to do is say "You know what would be cool? Generic Powerset." and have the discussion in that thread. No need to defend or justify your position before you even make it.
Carl and Sons @Aurora Girl (Pinnacle)
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Originally Posted by EarthWyrm
But I do understand that there is an internet rule that any bad idea must be presented by someone at least twice a year to remind everyone who hasn't already read every previous thread on the topic precisely why the idea is bad.
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A: He was eating soup before it was cool.