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Rend Armor (6.424), Clobber (5.84), and Crushing Uppercut (6.36-7.155, depending on combo level) crit for more than that. Knockout Blow would be 7.12, basically a CL3 Crushing Uppercut. It's on the upper end, but not wildly out of line with existing crits.
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Originally Posted by Starsman
There still are issues with KoB and the way criticals have been managed so far, though. I think the strongest attack I have seen for scrappers is Cleave doing a wooping 5.52ds in a crit chance (and it's a small cone!)
I would say: settle in that number as the "Crit cap per blow" and from now on, any attack that goes over that simply does (5.52 - BaseDS) with (5.52 - BaseDS)/BaseDS chance to crit. This would mean for KoB a 1.96 crit with a 55% chance to crit. |
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
So long as they exist they need to be differentiated. If the devs ever forget that, they will have no one to blame but themselves for the self-inflicted consequences they will generate. They will be harsh.
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Just noticed. Arcanaville is now an Arcanaville-classed entity on the boards...
AHHHHHHHH!
Unresistable pools of autohit numbers-typed damage! With "whole map" radius (both horizontally and vertically).
*Breaks down in sobs*
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Interesting. I had not noticed they ported War Mace to scrappers... and darn they left clobber intact...|
Originally Posted by Hopeling
Rend Armor (6.424), Clobber (5.84), and Crushing Uppercut (6.36-7.155, depending on combo level) crit for more than that. Knockout Blow would be 7.12, basically a CL3 Crushing Uppercut. It's on the upper end, but not wildly out of line with existing crits.
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Did notice now that War Mace and Titans are not available for Stalkers though. I am guessing Titans was just dimmed incompatible and War Mace... well they may be scaed of Clobber?
But Street Justice... hmmm...I'm seeing Stalkers dont get Combat Readyness. This means that they must be in combat and at least land 3 attacks before they can placate and use Crushing Uppercut for higher-than-assassination dmage. If you just build up and Crush you will just do 6.36... I'm actually shocked the set lost Rib Cracker instead of Crushing Uppercut for Stalkers. I would had gone for an Assassin's Uppercut for that set
Interesting either way, though. I would call that evidence enough if it was not because very recently in a coffee talk Syanpse stated attacks hitting for too much was indeed a worry.
*cough*
I, for one, agree with Claws that something *could* be done with SS.
Yes, Hyper, I use Taunt, and Judgment, and Sands while I have my Rage crash, and it's less of a lull, but a lot of times it's still a lull. If I'm soloing, and the enemies are in melee range, why would I use Taunt? Simply to have "something to do?" That's not right.
If you, for example, removed *just* the ability to stack it, and nothing else, only those builds who focused on perma-double-stacking would notice it, really. As a brute, I don't really notice much (and yes, I know there is one) of a difference between stacked and not.
The fact that stacking negates the defense debuff would need to be addressed by, perhaps, removing it entirely and simply increasing the end cost at the end. Make it 35 endurance or something. Still have to watch for the crash coming so you can make sure you don't detoggle, but it wouldn't be "unfair" to defense based armor sets.
Also, don't allow Rage's damage buff to apply to anything other than Super Strength powers. The fact that the "best DPS" chain, which I don't use because it's not conceptually relevant, only uses one SS power is broken, frankly, and needs to be changed.
If you still want to go the Follow Up route, then remove all the limitations placed on SS powers because of Rage. Increase their base damage, decrease their recharge times, and definitely remove the extra 25% recharge added to KOB. In that vein, reduce Rage's damage buff to, say, 40%, let it double-stack, keep the other penalties, but reduce the damage debuff to -100%, instead of -10000%. Then, at least, you could do something around un-enhanced damage with each power instead of single digits, plus you still have the "work around the crash" strategy which does, to me, make SS more fun to play than standard sets.
Carl and Sons @Aurora Girl (Pinnacle)
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Originally Posted by EarthWyrm
But I do understand that there is an internet rule that any bad idea must be presented by someone at least twice a year to remind everyone who hasn't already read every previous thread on the topic precisely why the idea is bad.
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Almost every set has little "gotchas" that people don't like.|
Originally Posted by Aurora_Girl
Yes, Hyper, I use Taunt, and Judgment, and Sands while I have my Rage crash, and it's less of a lull, but a lot of times it's still a lull. If I'm soloing, and the enemies are in melee range, why would I use Taunt? Simply to have "something to do?" That's not right.
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Stone-Granite makes you slower than molasses in January (pre-global warming mind you!) and takes a huge chunk out of your already *meh* damage potential.
Taunting keeps the enemy in range and keeps the aggro FIRMLY locked on you. If you're soloing this is important because, especially if you're running around def-capped, enemies are going to miss a LOT and eventually do the "run away" thing. Having a few seconds of crap damage sucks. Yeah. Having to chase runners all over the fargin' map? That's a 50,000 megawatt Hoover.
Spamming Jab keeps your resist debuff active, contributing to overall team damage output.
Also, it's always possible to come up with a corner case for "why X, Y or Z are totally pointless".
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Oh, I'm sure it is, but Cleave doesn't appear to be the absolute ceiling of what they'll allow, is all.|
Originally Posted by Starsman
Interesting either way, though. I would call that evidence enough if it was not because very recently in a coffee talk Syanpse stated attacks hitting for too much was indeed a worry.
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(Also, the StJ AS gives 2 combo points, which combined with the ATO1 proc easily allows Shin Breaker - AS - crit CU3. Add extra attacks for Assassin's Focus if desired.)
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If SS would be overpowered when added to Scrappers, then maybe it's Scrappers that are broken, not SS. Wouldn't it make much more sense to just adjust Scrapper damage downward by about 50%? It's not a nerf, it's an adjustment.|
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
I know this will be an unpopular suggestion...
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(No, that is not a serious suggestion, but that stabby feeling that you felt in your stomach when you read that is exactly what I feel whenever I see people suggesting that SS be destroyed like this.)
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Which is just as crap, as far as I'm concerned, but Stone Armour is beyond the scope of the discussion.|
Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
Stone-Granite makes you slower than molasses in January (pre-global warming mind you!) and takes a huge chunk out of your already *meh* damage potential.
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I really wouldn't mind the Rage crash if it were smarter applied. A defence debuff is just one more jab at sets built around defence and needs to be looked at, and the ability to avoid it by stacking the power with itself just has to go. That, to me, has always been a bug and has no reason to exist.
I don't mind the end crash and the "only affecting self" bit, while annoying and damaging to any kind of flow, is manageable. But the defence buff is just a bad idea. If it's supposed to make us easier to kill, just put in a self-damage component or a max hit points debuff and be done with it.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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I'm sorry, but I didn't get a stabby feeling because the argument you made doesn't make sense. Super-Strength is overpowered, we all know it. I have a SS Tanker and Brute, I know they are overpowered.
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Originally Posted by Smedley_Prime
If SS would be overpowered when added to Scrappers, then maybe it's Scrappers that are broken, not SS. Wouldn't it make much more sense to just adjust Scrapper damage downward by about 50%? It's not a nerf, it's an adjustment.
(No, that is not a serious suggestion, but that stabby feeling that you felt in your stomach when you read that is exactly what I feel whenever I see people suggesting that SS be destroyed like this.) |
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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Maybe so. There are plenty of things in this game that could be called overpowered. I don't want any of them weakened. Not SS, not Katana, not scrapper damage, not tank defense, nuthin.
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Originally Posted by EvilGeko
...Super-Strength is overpowered, we all know it. I have a SS Tanker and Brute, I know they are overpowered.
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Super Strength is fine where it's at right now even with the current Rage
Without Rage the set would be underpowed damage wise and with the set being only smashing damage which is resisted by a good number of higher lvl Npcs would kill the set if rage were gone or beat to death by the nerf bat like energy transfer.
The crash in Rage helps to keep the Dps of the set in check, and the added damage by stacking rage also means your going to crash more.
The - end from the crash also helps to curve the damage of the set, because to cope with the enderence loss you need to slot for more enderence reduction or find other means to improve your recovery/enderence use such as Cardiac or Ageless, and the more you stack/use rage as soon as it comes up the more enderence your going to be drained over all.
The - defense in the crash can be avoided but you need to have perma rage to do so which means you have to decide to take more enderence use or a defense debuff
Rage is the backbone of super strength and a great power that comes with a price you can make worse or better if you want in exchange for more damage or less damage. SS is in a way like TW which has great damage but a low build up where SS has low damage but one powerful damage boost. imo Rage is one of the best damage boosting powers because of how it can be manipulated to how you play.
As always be careful of what you wish for
I feel that Rage works fine the way it is now.. However I mostly use it on my Tank and when I rage crash? I stop scranking and start tanking until the debuff wears off.
Sure I'd love it if all the debuffs from a rage crash were removed but I know that first and foremost that the set was designed for tankers and as such it keeps me hammering away at my taunt to keep aggro during the damage drop off.
I think with the crash of rage, SS is good and rage is balanced. If they removed the crash, as stated abve of course adjustments should be made.
Even if a person manage to stack it, it's not without it's catch. One, Rage still crashes and for ten seconds, there is not much damage that can be done and not to mention the end loss. And when you stack it, that is ten seconds that render the stack useless, and meaning that another crach will come sooner. Constantly stacking will still end up with crashing more often instead of the usual every two minutes. and if for example a person is able to stack it the last 30 seconds fo the first one, that damage buff is good then. Then 30 seconds later for 10 seconds still unable to deal damage. At this point that 40 seconds the second rage is up. leaving about 1 min 20 secs before another crash. and lot more often the faster the stacks happen. Or if a person is able to stack it every minute, after the original single rage 2 minute crash, then they will suffer a ten second crash every minute or about 50 seconds worth of use between crashes.
-Female Player-
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Originally Posted by mauk2
Evil_Legacy became one of my favorite posters with two words.
"Kick Rocks." I laffed so hard.  Never change, E_L! |
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Exactly what about my suggestion "destroys" SS? |
Originally Posted by Smedley_Prime
If SS would be overpowered when added to Scrappers, then maybe it's Scrappers that are broken, not SS. Wouldn't it make much more sense to just adjust Scrapper damage downward by about 50%? It's not a nerf, it's an adjustment.
(No, that is not a serious suggestion, but that stabby feeling that you felt in your stomach when you read that is exactly what I feel whenever I see people suggesting that SS be destroyed like this.) |
Did you read the part where I suggested that SS get its base damage increased so that it stays right where it is with Rage reduced?
My issue isn't with Super Strength being overpowered. It isn't overpowered by itself. That is because it is balanced with Rage in mind, having lower base damage than comparable sets.
My issue is with powers outside SS that are NOT balanced with Rage in mind. They are too powerful when buffed by Rage as it is, especially double-stacked Rage.
My suggestion reduces the overpoweredness of those outside SS attacks, while keeping SS pretty much where it is now. It's actually a BUFF when you consider that higher base damage will lead to more damage at the damage cap.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
Finally it was turned to a huge -Dmg crash retaining the -def.
All versions had the -end crash.
Currently defense is not "only hurting defense based sets", it's "unfairly hurting defense based sets". Resist sets also suffer from -Def (as they now get hit more often) but Defense based sets get hurt disproportionally more than Resist ones.
A resistible resistance debuff actually hurts everyone equally, even users that have resistance as their main stat. At the end it simply means, no matter how much res or def or regen or whatever you have, you will take 15% more damage. That is the small price you pay for the ability to amplify the damage of every power out there 24/7.