Did my tanks get nerfed!??


Aett_Thorn

 

Posted

As has been mentioned, Carnies can be problematic.

Depending on the mission settings, you could have been -5 levels to them. (Which would indeed be rough on most, if not all tanks.) On a level 50 team you'd be SSK'd to level 49 on both of the tanks you mentioned. If the mission was set to +4/8 that would have made the Carnies lvl 54s. Without a ton of outside buffs I can see you having issues surviving, even with fairly well put together builds.


Throwing darts at the board to see if something sticks.....

Come show your resolve and fight my brute!
Tanks: Gauntlet, the streak breaker and you!
Quote:
Originally Posted by PapaSlade
Rangle's right....this is fun.

 

Posted

With one tanker at level 40 and the other at level 46, it's possible that jose2390 is simply fighting several of the more difficult high-level groups for the first time (or maybe just the first time tanking them for a large team). Carnies, Malta, Vanguard, Rularuu, Arachnos, IDF, etc can be quite a surprise when you're used to Council and Warrios.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rangle M. Down View Post
As has been mentioned, Carnies can be problematic.

Depending on the mission settings, you could have been -5 levels to them. (Which would indeed be rough on most, if not all tanks.) On a level 50 team you'd be SSK'd to level 49 on both of the tanks you mentioned. If the mission was set to +4/8 that would have made the Carnies lvl 54s. Without a ton of outside buffs I can see you having issues surviving, even with fairly well put together builds.
This.
No tough and weave, so Im guessing he has an SO build, and doesnt have softcap def. Then add a hi mission diff, mobs will be hitting and dealing a lot more damage.
What is the def on his tanks? This can be obtained from powers->combat attr->defense. Look at melee, range, smash, lethal. I usually shoot for 40% or more, depending on my armor.


 

Posted

Please no sarcasm. I humbly came here with honest questions, not to be made fun of. I'm far from a beginner. Most of the time, I play other classes (Blasters, Scrappers, Controllers, MM's etc) Tanks? here and there. And Yes I am familiar with will power. My Katana/will power scrapper is lvl 43 atm, and yes I do know the difference between scrappers and tankers.

I apologize if I offended. Anyway, thank you for letting me know about tough and weave. I never used them because I heard that they can be pretty heavy endurance hogs and I personally don't like toggles (thats just me) Also, I want to thank everyone who took the time to inform me about the current state of tanks. I really thought it was a nerf. Take care.


 

Posted

I understand where your coming from. While I was leveling up my Fire tank I rarely had issues against any groups I fought, with the exceptions of Carnies. Then I finally got around to playing the "brand new" ITF that had been out for about a month or two. I can honestly say I was horribly embarrassed by how poorly my Fire tank did. He was "owned". At the time he wasn't all that IO'd out, and didn't have tough and weave. I spent 3+ months lurking around the Tanker forums to see what I could learn and how I could "fix" my tank. He performs much better now, but I still get a little hesitation when I bring him along for the ITF.


Throwing darts at the board to see if something sticks.....

Come show your resolve and fight my brute!
Tanks: Gauntlet, the streak breaker and you!
Quote:
Originally Posted by PapaSlade
Rangle's right....this is fun.

 

Posted

I'm using io's only. The ones you can make at the university. Forgive me but I'm not familiar with posting builds on forums like the way you guys do it. Basically with powers like high pain tolerance for example I will put 3 healths and 3 damage resistance. The rest of my build is balanced like that. 3 of the same enhancement into one power.

I don't have billions of dollars. Can't afford the big boys stuff.
On some of my others toons, I was able to buy that. But that was before


 

Posted

Thank you Rangle. I greatly appreciate your feedback. I haven't done one of those yet. I mainly play radios, tips, and regular mishes with the difficultly on plus 1. I'm from the old school.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by jose2390 View Post
I been playing City of Heroes for about 7 years. I have lots a characters, 10 level 50's, the rest are level 46 and under. I have 2 tanks. A level 46 will power/super strength, and a lvl 40 stone/stone tank. Both of them have io's, properly slotted. I play them once in a while. Yesterday, I was on a 8 man team with my Will power tank, going against Carnies. Man, I was getting clobbered!! I had to keep using greens like crazy. That never happened before, never. I immediately said to myself, "Can't believe those dev's nerfed my tank" This morning, I was playing with my stone tank, and the same thing happened again!! Someone on the team was talking about incarnates (I heard about that, not familiar with that, but I do know u gotta be lvl 50 for that) I kept saying my teammates, "no no, you don't understand. My stone tank rarely got a scratch lol" He also said, "it depends who you are fighting" My tanks went against anything without issues. I am aware that the devs are on this balance trip. Meaning, they want all classes to work together on a team for survival. Am I wrong??.....Please guys and gals, help a old timer out here. What's really going on? Thank you.
You ran into the hawtness that is Dark Ring Mistress. Thats all it takes to kill a tank.


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Thank You Devs for Merits!!!!

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by jose2390 View Post
I'm using io's only. The ones you can make at the university. Forgive me but I'm not familiar with posting builds on forums like the way you guys do it. Basically with powers like high pain tolerance for example I will put 3 healths and 3 damage resistance. The rest of my build is balanced like that. 3 of the same enhancement into one power.

I don't have billions of dollars. Can't afford the big boys stuff.
On some of my others toons, I was able to buy that. But that was before
Straight IOs are nice in many ways, but set bonuses will make your build(s) stronger.

As has been mentioned, there are a few tools out there that you can use, provided you're not on a Mac.

Titan Sentinel can be downloaded here. Running this, you can export your current character build to both Mids Hero Planner, or to the forums. (Tools-Utilities-Export)

Mid's Hero Planner can be downloaded here and import it into Mids so you can see what your build totals look like. (Import/Export-Import from forum post) There's a "View Totals" button which will create a pop up window.

If you want to you can use Mid's to view other builds in the forums for comparison, or to get ideas on how to improve your build(s).

Again, it's all up to you how far you want to go. You can buy recipes via the Auction House, Reward or Hero merits. You can also get some items with Astral and Empyrean's. Enhancement converters are also helpful in their own way.


Throwing darts at the board to see if something sticks.....

Come show your resolve and fight my brute!
Tanks: Gauntlet, the streak breaker and you!
Quote:
Originally Posted by PapaSlade
Rangle's right....this is fun.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by jose2390 View Post
How important is tough and weave?
For Willpower? They're pretty important if you want to reach your peak of survivability.

Quote:
I heard that those powers are end drainers though.
No more so than your other toggles, and Willpower doesn't need to worry about end consumption as much as other sets.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by jose2390 View Post
I'm using io's only. The ones you can make at the university. Forgive me but I'm not familiar with posting builds on forums like the way you guys do it. Basically with powers like high pain tolerance for example I will put 3 healths and 3 damage resistance. The rest of my build is balanced like that. 3 of the same enhancement into one power.

I don't have billions of dollars. Can't afford the big boys stuff.
On some of my others toons, I was able to buy that. But that was before
To post a build on the forums -

- Go to CoHTitan.com

- Download Titan Sentinal

- Run it when you COH

- after you log into the character switch to Sentinal and choose "export Data" - long form is the easy to read version, IIRC.


Orc&Pie No.53230 There is an orc, and somehow, he got a pie. And you are hungry.
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Negaduck: I see you found the crumb. I knew you'd never notice the huge flag.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by jose2390 View Post
Sorry for the late response. Overall I got the message. My tanks didn't get nerfed. Thanks. Here's my next question. How important is tough and weave? My will power tank just hit level 47. I heard that those powers are end drainers though.

I played with a shield tank and he strongly recommend it.

Tough is a great boon to tanks. Depending on slotting, you'll have Smashing/Lethal resists in the high 40's without tough.

Tough can tack another 20+% onto that.

Weave, if you're building for defense, can be extremely valuable too.

And, as for endurance issues. Uh. You're a Willpower Tank! Endurance should be a complete fricking non-issue for you if you're build decently.


Just to give you a basic idea of what's possible, here's a crudely (it makes the numbers happen, but it's not pretty or optimal) built WP/SS that should be able to maintain a positive endurance bar balance unless their recovery is nerfed into the ground.

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.96
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Magic Tanker
Primary Power Set: Willpower
Secondary Power Set: Super Strength
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Pyre Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: High Pain Tolerance -- RctvArm-ResDam:40(A), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx:40(3), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg:40(3), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg:40(5), S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+:30(36), GA-3defTpProc:50(36)
Level 1: Jab -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg:35(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx:35(25), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg:35(25), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:35(27), HO:Nucle(27)
Level 2: Mind Over Body -- RctvArm-ResDam:40(A), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx:40(5), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg:40(7), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg:40(7)
Level 4: Fast Healing -- Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx:50(A), Dct'dW-EndRdx/Rchg:50(21), Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg:50(21), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg:50(23), Dct'dW-Heal:50(23)
Level 6: Indomitable Will -- LkGmblr-Rchg+:50(A), LkGmblr-Def:50(17), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx:50(17)
Level 8: Rise to the Challenge -- HO:Golgi(A), HO:Golgi(15), HO:Golgi(15)
Level 10: Haymaker -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg:35(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx:35(37), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg:35(37), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:35(37), HO:Nucle(39)
Level 12: Quick Recovery -- P'Shift-End%:50(A), P'Shift-EndMod:50(13), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc:50(13)
Level 14: Taunt -- Mocking-Taunt:50(A), Mocking-Taunt/Rchg:50(29), Mocking-Taunt/Rchg/Rng:50(29), Mocking-Acc/Rchg:50(31), Mocking-Taunt/Rng:50(31), Mocking-Rchg:50(31)
Level 16: Boxing -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg:35(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx:35(46), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg:35(48), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:35(48)
Level 18: Heightened Senses -- LkGmblr-Rchg+:50(A), LkGmblr-Def:50(19), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx:50(19)
Level 20: Knockout Blow -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg:35(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx:35(39), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg:35(39), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:35(40), HO:Nucle(40)
Level 22: Tough -- RctvArm-ResDam:40(A), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx:40(33), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg:40(33), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg:40(33)
Level 24: Weave -- LkGmblr-Rchg+:50(A), LkGmblr-Def:50(34), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx:50(34)
Level 26: Resurgence -- RechRdx-I:50(A)
Level 28: Rage -- GSFC-ToHit:50(A), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg:50(34), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx:50(36), GSFC-Rchg/EndRdx:50(45), GSFC-ToHit/EndRdx:50(46), GSFC-Build%:50(46)
Level 30: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Rchg+:50(A), LkGmblr-Def:50(40), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx:50(42)
Level 32: Strength of Will -- Empty(A)
Level 35: Maneuvers -- LkGmblr-Rchg+:50(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx:50(45), LkGmblr-Def:50(45)
Level 38: Foot Stomp -- Erad-Dmg/Rchg:30(A), Erad-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:30(42), Erad-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:30(42), C'ngBlow-Acc/Dmg:50(43), C'ngBlow-Dmg/EndRdx:50(43), C'ngBlow-Dmg/Rchg:50(43)
Level 41: Char -- Empty(A)
Level 44: Fire Blast -- Thundr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(A), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(48), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(50), Thundr-Acc/Dmg:50(50), Thundr-Dmg/Rchg:50(50)
Level 47: Melt Armor -- Acc-I:50(A)
Level 49: [Empty]
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Health -- Numna-Regen/Rcvry+:50(A), Numna-Heal:50(11), Mrcl-Rcvry+:40(11)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- P'Shift-End%:50(A), P'Shift-EndMod:50(9), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc:50(9)
------------



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| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build |
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Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by jose2390 View Post
Anyway, thank you for letting me know about tough and weave. I never used them because I heard that they can be pretty heavy endurance hogs and I personally don't like toggles (thats just me)
Yeah, while it's not so bad on Willpower, it's really bad on dark armor. My dark/dark tank runs 10 toggles (and some people have more). Most of my build is focused on supporting that END drain.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jose2390 View Post
I don't have billions of dollars. Can't afford the big boys stuff.
Sure you can. While you CAN spend billions on a build, you don't have to. For an expenditure in the 50+ million range, you can have a build that is noticeably better than generic IOs. For 200 or so, you can get a build noticeably better than the 50 million one. After that, you're paying more and more for smaller increments of improvement.


Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project

 

Posted

I am happy to report that my tank is doing much much better now! I respeced it earlier, added tough weave and hover for that extra defense. Even without hover it still rocks. I was just going against Infernal and things went well. Thanks again everyone for your suggestions. In the future I will definitely invest in more powerful sets. Peace


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rajani Isa View Post
To post a build on the forums -

- Go to CoHTitan.com

- Download Titan Sentinal

- Run it when you COH

- after you log into the character switch to Sentinal and choose "export Data" - long form is the easy to read version, IIRC.
And since Rajani left off the rest of the steps and wasn't really clear on that last one ...

- after you log into the character switch to Titan Sentinel.

- On the menu bar click Tools then click Utilities. Click the Export button. (There are no options for setting it to long or short form in Titan Sentinel, only in Mids.)

- Log in to the forums and come back to this thread

- Click the New Reply button at the bottom of the thread

- Right-click in the editing box and select Paste. You'll see something like this:

Code:
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Don't worry about how it looks, someone with Mids can copy that chunk and paste it into their copy of Mids and see how your build looks.

It's easier if you install Mids Hero Designer however, as you can export data in a format that is easy to read by anyone, similar to what Hyperstrike posted above.

If you want to use Mids (a really handy character builder and planner) after you have it installed, do these steps:

- Follow the instructions listed above about how to use Titan Sentinel.

- After you click the Export button in Titan Sentinel, open Mids

- Click Import / Export on the toolbar

- Select Import from Forum Post and click OK through any popup dialogs.

- Now you'll be able to look at the build in Mids and see your powers, slots and what is slotted where

- Click Import / Export from the toolbar again

- Select Short Forum Export and click Export. You'll get a message that it's been put onto your clipboard so just click OK.

- Come back to this thread and click New Reply

- Right-click in the editing box and select Paste.

- Click the Submit Reply button and you'll see a post similar to the one Hyperstrike posted above.

It will be easy then for anyone to read and offer advice on improving your build.

EDIT: To get Titan Sentinel and/or Mids (I recommend both) just go to the Titan Network site at http://www.cohtitan.com/ and you will find links to download both programs at the top of the page. You can also register a Titan Key so that you can post on the forums there and log in to the various parts of the site but it isn't required in order to get these programs.


If the game spit out 20 dollar bills people would complain that they weren't sequentially numbered. If they were sequentially numbered people would complain that they weren't random enough.

Black Pebble is my new hero.

 

Posted

I have a Apple.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by jose2390 View Post
I am happy to report that my tank is doing much much better now! I respeced it earlier, added tough weave and hover for that extra defense. Even without hover it still rocks. I was just going against Infernal and things went well. Thanks again everyone for your suggestions. In the future I will definitely invest in more powerful sets. Peace

Hover is like nothing for defense. It's like 1%, literally. You'd get more out of Leadership: Maneuvers (which is around 3% base, I think for tanks, and benefits your whole team).


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by jose2390 View Post
I have a Apple.
Bummer.


If the game spit out 20 dollar bills people would complain that they weren't sequentially numbered. If they were sequentially numbered people would complain that they weren't random enough.

Black Pebble is my new hero.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by gameboy1234 View Post
Hover is like nothing for defense. It's like 1%, literally. You'd get more out of Leadership: Maneuvers (which is around 3% base, I think for tanks, and benefits your whole team).
Hover is like 2.5% defense literally, or just under 4% defense slotted. Maneuvers is only 2.275% for tankers (about 3.5% slotted). It does buff allies, but it is lower in strength for the tanker specifically. Although maneuvers is stronger intrinsically, Tanker ranged defense buff modifiers (generally used for ally buffs) are much lower than Tanker melee defense buff modifiers (generally used for self buffs). 0.10 vs 0.065.


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In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...
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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rangle M. Down View Post
Straight IOs are nice in many ways, but set bonuses will make your build(s) stronger.

As has been mentioned, there are a few tools out there that you can use, provided you're not on a Mac.

Titan Sentinel can be downloaded here. Running this, you can export your current character build to both Mids Hero Planner, or to the forums. (Tools-Utilities-Export)

Mid's Hero Planner can be downloaded here and import it into Mids so you can see what your build totals look like. (Import/Export-Import from forum post) There's a "View Totals" button which will create a pop up window.


If you want to you can use Mid's to view other builds in the forums for comparison, or to get ideas on how to improve your build(s).

Again, it's all up to you how far you want to go. You can buy recipes via the Auction House, Reward or Hero merits. You can also get some items with Astral and Empyrean's. Enhancement converters are also helpful in their own way.
Glad no one mentioned any of that earlier in the thread... *cough*, *cough*, *cough*....



Throwing darts at the board to see if something sticks.....

Come show your resolve and fight my brute!
Tanks: Gauntlet, the streak breaker and you!
Quote:
Originally Posted by PapaSlade
Rangle's right....this is fun.

 

Posted

Also, someone had put together a Mid's Wineskin wrap at one point. You can locate the thread discussing it here.

Not sure if you'll be able to update to the latest version of Mids using it.

There's a link to the App there as well. Best of luck. Glad you're happier with your tank.


Throwing darts at the board to see if something sticks.....

Come show your resolve and fight my brute!
Tanks: Gauntlet, the streak breaker and you!
Quote:
Originally Posted by PapaSlade
Rangle's right....this is fun.

 

Posted

I missed Rangle's cause I was at work on my phone.

Considering I haven't run Sentinel in a while, I did pretty good from memory.


Orc&Pie No.53230 There is an orc, and somehow, he got a pie. And you are hungry.
www.repeat-offenders.net

Negaduck: I see you found the crumb. I knew you'd never notice the huge flag.

 

Posted

Just a quick note here: I'd suggest Combat Jumping instead of Hover, if you want to squeeze out that last bit of Defense. It has a very low Endurance rate, and doesn't have the maneuverability issues that Hover does.

(Unless you mean you're running Combat Jumping and Hover, in which case... carry on)


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilRyu View Post
You ran into the hawtness that is Dark Ring Mistress. Thats all it takes to kill a tank.

So true. I hate her so much lol. Especially if I'm playing a squishie.



 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Hover is like 2.5% defense literally, or just under 4% defense slotted. Maneuvers is only 2.275% for tankers (about 3.5% slotted). It does buff allies, but it is lower in strength for the tanker specifically. Although maneuvers is stronger intrinsically, Tanker ranged defense buff modifiers (generally used for ally buffs) are much lower than Tanker melee defense buff modifiers (generally used for self buffs). 0.10 vs 0.065.
Huh, I didn't realize there was such a disparity in pool powers between the various ATs. Thanks for pointing that out.