soloing +2/x6 CoT with nothing but lvl 35 common IOs (sorry for the resolution, and for the sudden FPS crash at the end, but don't let that mislead you on its performance)
@ORACLE, any reports of Bio being nerfed are greatly exaggerated. The set was balanced and is more than playable. While it hasn't been finalized, you can probably get a decent idea off of your Mids build if you're using the most recent update.
@Rylas
Kill 'em all. Let XP sort 'em out.
Sweet...I usually don't use IO sets until lvl 50 and just go with common IOs for all my toons.
This makes me happy(ier) to see that it's still good 
I haven't touched Bio Armor or Nature Affinity since they first came out. :|
Leader of The LEGION/Fallen LEGION on the Liberty server!
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Keep in mind, there have been changes since then. Mainly that Offensive mode was boosted on its damage, and Efficient mode was given more recovery. Parasitic Aura had it's recharge time shortened, but I can't recall if I even used PA in the video.
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Originally Posted by Energizing_Ion
Sweet...I usually don't use IO sets until lvl 50 and just go with common IOs for all my toons.
This makes me happy(ier) to see that it's still good I haven't touched Bio Armor or Nature Affinity since they first came out. :| |
@Rylas
Kill 'em all. Let XP sort 'em out.
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Defensive also had the heal procs reduced in effectiveness. At least according to the patch notes: I ended up trying the Stalker version and didn't get Adaptation before I got tired of soloing. Although according to global chat on beta the Stalker version probably offers more survivability than the Scrapper and Brute versions due to being able to slot the chance for Placate proc, although you lose damage because you don't have the -res. |
Originally Posted by Rylas
Keep in mind, there have been changes since then. Mainly that Offensive mode was boosted on its damage, and Efficient mode was given more recovery. Parasitic Aura had it's recharge time shortened, but I can't recall if I even used PA in the video.
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Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
it has gone from unconscionable to downright appalling that we have no way of measuring our characters' wetness.
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Originally Posted by Brillig
It's hard to beat the entertainment value of Whackjob Wednesdays.
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Good catch. I also forgot to mention that the -rech (present in the video) was removed from Defensive mode.
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Originally Posted by Siolfir
Defensive also had the heal procs reduced in effectiveness. At least according to the patch notes: I ended up trying the Stalker version and didn't get Adaptation before I got tired of soloing. Although according to global chat on beta the Stalker version probably offers more survivability than the Scrapper and Brute versions due to being able to slot the chance for Placate proc, although you lose damage because you don't have the -res.
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@Rylas
Kill 'em all. Let XP sort 'em out.
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Your video was from before the initial round of nerfs, then? I didn't watch it, but the -recharge (and +recharge) were removed in the first set of changes.
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Originally Posted by Rylas
Good catch. I also forgot to mention that the -rech (present in the video) was removed from Defensive mode.
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Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
it has gone from unconscionable to downright appalling that we have no way of measuring our characters' wetness.
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Originally Posted by Brillig
It's hard to beat the entertainment value of Whackjob Wednesdays.
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Initially, in the forums, Synapse posted changes. The first included placing -Rech on Defensive mode. Then people reasoned that -rech would affect defensive powers as well as offensive powers. So then, Synapse came back and said those changes would be undone, but he posted that before the first set of changes went through. Unfortunately, the build that was rolled out was the one with -rech, because those had been made already. Then about a week later the -rech was taken out.
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Originally Posted by Siolfir
Your video was from before the initial round of nerfs, then? I didn't watch it, but the -recharge (and +recharge) were removed in the first set of changes.
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@Rylas
Kill 'em all. Let XP sort 'em out.
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You said we could thank her for working to get the set "nerfed into oblivion." A sentiment that is matched in your other posts here:|
Originally Posted by Darth_Khasei
You obviously have misunderstood what has been written so far, probably my fault as I could have been more clear. "I" have not mentioned any specific nerfs etc... I advised you to PM Reppu because she probably knows the exact state of the set right now and what she campaigned to have changed.
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Originally Posted by Darth_Khasei
If they had been listening to people that rolled them and had them on the server SO'ed up in the 30's and above there is no way they would have nerfed the set so hard...
...Yes, it is overkill, the same overkill people who were playing the set told people that had not and were arguing nerf nerf nerf based on numbers alone. |
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Originally Posted by Darth_Khasei
I am no longer interested in Bio armor since the nerf herders are being listened too by the devs,...
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Originally Posted by Darth_Khasei
DNA Siphon was taken out behind the woodshed and beaten mercilessly into a bloody pile of bio mass.
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What was that you were saying about revisionism?
@Rylas
Kill 'em all. Let XP sort 'em out.
Does anyone know the numbers for s/l def for bio armor is it like Fire and starts with 0 s/l def?
Scrappers: (50) BS/SD,(50) Spines/INV, Controllers: (50) Fire/Kin (50) Fire/Storm, Tankers: (50) Stone/SS (50) Stone/DB (50)Stone/Elec (50) Ice/Stone (50) Fire/KM (50) Elec/SS +3, Blaster: (50) Ar/Devices, Brutes: (50) Claws/WP +2 (50) Elec/SD +3 (50) Claws/FA +1 (50) SS/WP/MU +3(50) SS/FA/Soul +3, (50) Elec/TW +2, (50) Warshade, (50) Plant/Dark Perma Dom+3
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I don't remember offhand, but it has a small base s/l defense. I want to say Weave-level?|
Originally Posted by hidbyflames
Does anyone know the numbers for s/l def for bio armor is it like Fire and starts with 0 s/l def?
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So it's more like building S/L defense on Dark Armor instead of Fiery Aura.
Edit: I finally got to check on beta; the S/L Defense I was thinking of is part of Defensive Adaptation only and doesn't exist in the other forms.
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Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
it has gone from unconscionable to downright appalling that we have no way of measuring our characters' wetness.
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Originally Posted by Brillig
It's hard to beat the entertainment value of Whackjob Wednesdays.
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I can't look it up so easily at work, but yes. It starts at zero for S/L. But you can get S/L defense in Environmental Armor in Defensive mode. Someone else will have to tell you the numbers on that, sorry. And while it's not high, you do get very good resist for S/L in Bio Armor.
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Originally Posted by hidbyflames
Does anyone know the numbers for s/l def for bio armor is it like Fire and starts with 0 s/l def?
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@Rylas
Kill 'em all. Let XP sort 'em out.
thxs rylas was just curious of the numbers guessing ill need a couple sets of KC in my SS/BIO brute after all lol.....
Scrappers: (50) BS/SD,(50) Spines/INV, Controllers: (50) Fire/Kin (50) Fire/Storm, Tankers: (50) Stone/SS (50) Stone/DB (50)Stone/Elec (50) Ice/Stone (50) Fire/KM (50) Elec/SS +3, Blaster: (50) Ar/Devices, Brutes: (50) Claws/WP +2 (50) Elec/SD +3 (50) Claws/FA +1 (50) SS/WP/MU +3(50) SS/FA/Soul +3, (50) Elec/TW +2, (50) Warshade, (50) Plant/Dark Perma Dom+3
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First and foremost there is no reason for you to lie and say I said we can thank her for anything since I did not say that. I said that she would know the current state of the set. In terms of her stated goal the post is still there for all to see.|
Originally Posted by Rylas
You said we could thank her for working to get the set "nerfed into oblivion." A sentiment that is matched in your other posts here:
Clearly, you thought it was nerfed into oblivion. What was that you were saying about revisionism? |
I stand by each and every statement I have made including the one where I said the current state of the set is "ok" and that many would like it. It is obviously not going to be anything more than slightly below average to average and while I was looking for more from this paid set than that, the majority of people are fine with it as is and that is more than fine with me.
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
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Darth, this post right here is in direct contrast to your latest post in this thread. "Nerfed into oblivion" does not mean "okay" in any sense of the word. While you may not have said that we can thank her for it, there is really little reason to call her out specifically unless that is what you meant to say.|
Originally Posted by Darth_Khasei
PM Reppu since she is on record for working to get the set nerfed into oblivion.
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Edit -> And if you're saying that we're reading that into your post, then you are also reading into your own post that she would know the current state of the set, because you also didn't say that.
Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
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You are correct, I misread your post and my memory inserted the word "Thank". My sincerest apologies. You're still strongly implying that it was nerfed horribly, which it was not. |
Originally Posted by Darth_Khasei
First and foremost there is no reason for you to lie and say I said we can thank her for anything since I did not say that.
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And you're certainly entitled to the opinion that the set is below-average to average, but the fact that a lvl 44 Bio tank with nothing more than level 35 Common IOs can stand in the middle of a +4/x8 CoT group and stop to do its taxes while it waits for them to do anything impactful would argue much to the contrary. That's far above average.
@Rylas
Kill 'em all. Let XP sort 'em out.
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Well, now that I dragged out my Tanker video, we might be able to get some more finite answers. On the tank, in defensive, with lvl 35 common IOs, he was getting 24.65% S/L defense. So on a brute, that would be, what? 18.49% defense to S/L? |
Originally Posted by hidbyflames
thxs rylas was just curious of the numbers guessing ill need a couple sets of KC in my SS/BIO brute after all lol.....
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That's actually pretty decent in a group of 10.
@Rylas
Kill 'em all. Let XP sort 'em out.
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You would've been worse off exemplared to lower levels - slows (from the Air Thorn Casters) don't hurt the set much but Quicksand from Earth Thorn Casters is going to cripple a set with no defense debuff resistance and you'd probably notice your hit points dipping a bit more.|
Originally Posted by Rylas
You are correct, I misread your post and my memory inserted the word "Thank". My sincerest apologies. You're still strongly implying that it was nerfed horribly, which it was not.
And you're certainly entitled to the opinion that the set is below-average to average, but the fact that a lvl 44 Bio tank with nothing more than level 35 Common IOs can stand in the middle of a +4/x8 CoT group and stop to do its taxes while it waits for them to do anything impactful would argue much to the contrary. That's far above average. |
It's a good set, especially in defensive, but it's hardly unkillable and has its flaws - lack of comprehensive mez protection, a staple since Willpower despite some ridiculously stupid justifications to shoehorn it into both WP and SD, is one of them. Lacking defense debuff resistance - and lethal defense, since lethal damage is the source of most of those debuffs that you'll run into - are the ones most people will notice.
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Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
it has gone from unconscionable to downright appalling that we have no way of measuring our characters' wetness.
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Originally Posted by Brillig
It's hard to beat the entertainment value of Whackjob Wednesdays.
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No it's just your interpretation of the post. Reppu is on record for the stated goal to nerf the set. The reality is that is an untenable position "if" you are going to participate in a BETA thread on a new set. Which is why all of the post subsequent to that all talk about balance.|
Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn
Darth, this post right here is in direct contrast to your latest post in this thread. "Nerfed into oblivion" does not mean "okay" in any sense of the word. While you may not have said that we can thank her for it, there is really little reason to call her out specifically unless that is what you meant to say.
Edit -> And if you're saying that we're reading that into your post, then you are also reading into your own post that she would know the current state of the set, because you also didn't say that. |
There were in fact "portions" of the set that were heavily nerfed which is what each of my quoted comments were dealing with and not the set on the whole. When commenting on the set on the whole is where you see the comment "ok".
I already said that the original post was not as clear as I wanted it to be and then made it clear, so there is no gotcha in pointing out something I already acknowledged several posts ago....
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
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There were in fact portions of the set that were beaten up pretty badly. That is the part that makes the set "ok" and not better like I was expecting it to be. As stated most people are fine with it as is and they are the ones that are going to pay for it not me, so I am more than fine with that.
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Originally Posted by Rylas
You are correct, I misread your post and my memory inserted the word "Thank". My sincerest apologies. You're still strongly implying that it was nerfed horribly, which it was not.
And you're certainly entitled to the opinion that the set is below-average to average, but the fact that a lvl 44 Bio tank with nothing more than level 35 Common IOs can stand in the middle of a +4/x8 CoT group and stop to do its taxes while it waits for them to do anything impactful would argue much to the contrary. That's far above average. |
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
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I never claimed it would be unkillable. And a lack of DDR is an intended weakness of the set. Would you blame someone for not using Psionic Clockwork to show off the strengths of Inv? And since I wasn't using any attacks, it's hard to see how much impact the heal procs could have had, or might have had in a debuffed situation.|
Originally Posted by Siolfir
It's a good set, especially in defensive, but it's hardly unkillable and has its flaws - lack of comprehensive mez protection, a staple since Willpower despite some ridiculously stupid justifications to shoehorn it into both WP and SD, is one of them. Lacking defense debuff resistance - and lethal defense, since lethal damage is the source of most of those debuffs that you'll run into - are the ones most people will notice.
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And that's defense to Smash and Lethal in defensive mode. So there is some protection there to avoid DDR from lethal. It's not awesome protection, but there is some. Also, this isn't the only set lacking full mez protection. I don't think it bears scrutiny as that's not a standard to go by for all armor sets.
@Rylas
Kill 'em all. Let XP sort 'em out.
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I guess it's all on how you define "beaten mercilessly into a bloody pile of bio mass." Because DNA is a huge, huge heal as it stands now. I don't need more than 3 targets to get a full bar. Then there's the +regen and +recovery it's capable of giving you. On a 45 second timer (if you slot for recharge).|
Originally Posted by Darth_Khasei
There were in fact portions of the set that were beaten up pretty badly.
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If you're description of the nerf is anywhere near accurate, how much stronger could it have been?
@Rylas
Kill 'em all. Let XP sort 'em out.
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You're showing a video "to show off the strengths" or to show how the set performs in general? Because those are two vastly different things and one is far more valuable to the discussion than the other. As for it being "unkillable", you mentioned that it's far above average... when average is fairly close to being unkillable for most sets on a decently-built level 44 Tanker.|
Originally Posted by Rylas
I never claimed it would be unkillable. And a lack of DDR is an intended weakness of the set. Would you blame someone for not using Psionic Clockwork to show off the strengths of Inv? And since I wasn't using any attacks, it's hard to see how much impact the heal procs could have had, or might have had in a debuffed situation.
And that's defense to Smash and Lethal in defensive mode. So there is some protection there to avoid DDR from lethal. It's not awesome protection, but there is some. Also, this isn't the only set lacking full mez protection. I don't think it bears scrutiny as that's not a standard to go by for all armor sets. |
The lack of DDR and only having S/L defense while in Defensive means that you either start in Defensive and deal with the damage penalty or you don't have any defense against the enemy groups that debuff heavily because you'll be negative and in cascade failure even before you switch to enable the defense.
And I bring up the mez protection since this is the first armor set since issue 7 that didn't have comprehensive protection. Yes, every set prior to that had a mez hole of some sort, but there was a serious cave for little to no good reason and they set an expectation with Willpower and Shield Defense.
Willpower was given immobilize protection due to frequent complaints while it was in beta despite Combat Jumping being available to easily cover the gap. I still have no idea why Shield was designed without a hole since the concept doesn't cover any means of mez protection unless it's because it was the set after Willpower and they remembered all of the complaints.
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Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
it has gone from unconscionable to downright appalling that we have no way of measuring our characters' wetness.
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Originally Posted by Brillig
It's hard to beat the entertainment value of Whackjob Wednesdays.
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Poor wording on my part, perhaps. So I'll rephrase; would you show off Inv's performance as an average or above average set by running against it's main weakness, Psionic damage?|
Originally Posted by Siolfir
You're showing a video "to show off the strengths" or to show how the set performs in general? Because those are two vastly different things and one is far more valuable to the discussion than the other. As for it being "unkillable", you mentioned that it's far above average... when average is fairly close to being unkillable for most sets on a decently-built level 44 Tanker.
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Clearly, I wouldn't be just showing off the strengths alone if I bothered showing the Tank faceplant at the end after a minute and a half of being out of Defensive mode and without even using the T9 power.
Is average SO level performance considered to be nigh-unkillable? I guess we'll have to call it a difference of opinion then.
@Rylas
Kill 'em all. Let XP sort 'em out.
The amount of shitposting in the official topic is the reason information is so hard to find, and when a topic is made with a simple question, people nitpick over terminology rather than answer... Nerfing is balancing, balancing is nerfing, let's move on.
I have mids with bio-armor and before I waste time on planning my next brute, I wanted to know what aspect got nerfed from mids. Words I have read to describe the nerf are "huge" and "massive" nerf.
If someone could kindly point me to the thread with the nerf details, I would appreciate it. I can find threads with people alluding to it but no specific details. Maybe I am blind...
Thanks-