Given the apparent unyielding nature of 'No, you WILL buy these packs to get stuff (i.e. the costumes) and you will LIKE it!', I see this as a decent idea. If I have to buy the blasted things, at least allow me to get something I, personally, like for my money.
/Signed
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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If I can trade the super pack consumables in for Catalysts I'm all for it.
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The devs want it to be relatively random and I don't see suggestions to make it even more deterministic than it already is getting much play.|
Originally Posted by Triplash
Lets you trade in cards you don't use to get the costumes and rares, or other cards you like better.
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Also, I like it being random.
so /unsigned.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
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Have they come right out and said that, then? Cause that would kinda shoot this in the foot, yeah. Hrrrm. =/|
Originally Posted by Nethergoat
The devs want it to be relatively random and I don't see suggestions to make it even more deterministic than it already is getting much play.
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| Also, I like it being random. |
Ah well, they've changed their minds on things before. Something like it might still happen one day.
They're supposed to be like those trading card decks from a long time ago.
So, yeah, random.
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The devs have a long, impressive track record of irritating me by liberalizing the supply of just about everything that started out rare in this game, dating back to costume drops back in the early days of the market on through adding purples to the Paragon Market & letting people just flat out buy PvP IO's with alignment merits.|
Originally Posted by Triplash
Ah well, they've changed their minds on things before. Something like it might still happen one day.
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In other words, keep fighting your fight. My crystal ball about this sort of thing has been on the fritz for years now. =)
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
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Originally Posted by VoodooGirl
They're supposed to be like those trading card decks from a long time ago.
So, yeah, random. |
Just without the trading aspect on over half the cards?
Brawling Cactus from a distant planet.
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Well, take the thing away from him and tell him, "Fritz! You are not to play with this, or no more Adventure Time!"
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Originally Posted by Nethergoat
My crystal ball about this sort of thing has been on the fritz for years now. =)
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Open Archetype Suggestion thread!, Kirsten's Epic Weapon Pools, Feudal Japan, Etc., Alignment specific Rularuu iTrials!
If Masterminds didn't suck, they'd be the most powerful AT in the game.
Good luck with this idea. I like it but don't see it happening.
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I'm starting to think the same thing, yeah. I mean I understand it... they want a product based in randomness to stay random. Makes sense, no doubt. I just can't help thinking they'd improve sales if people felt like they could offset that randomness at a later point. One of the main reasons gievn by players who don't buy these is that they don't want large stockpiles of unused items. And a "hobby shop owner" that you swap cards with could certainly help promote the collectible cards vibe that they're looking for.|
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Good luck with this idea. I like it but don't see it happening.
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Maybe once the third and fourth pack series come out, they might be more willing to put the first two into some kind of system like this. Or they could retire earlier series and just put the exclusive stuff from them into this inventory. The costume sets and ultra rares, ATOs, things that didn't get carried forward into the new series. And possibly things like retired T9 VIP stuff and brand new items as well. That would give them a way to offer retired and otherwise exclusive things, that still requires spending further money (through converting unwanted Super Pack items into Trading Cards).
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Ding ding, we have a winner...
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Originally Posted by CactusBrawler
Just without the trading aspect on over half the cards?
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Personally, I don't see a valid reason for us not to be able to trade/sell/ or gift unused cards, converters, what ever back and forth. I'd personaly utilize the trading packs more if I knew that I could get rid of the card I don't want or trade them for the one's I do.
Hell, even WoTC figured that one out.
It's 106 miles to Grandville, we got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark and we're wearing faceless helmets
... Hit it ...
... Hit it ...
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That's really the key issue.|
Originally Posted by Jet_Boy
I'd personaly utilize the trading packs more if I knew that I could get rid of the card I don't want or trade them for the one's I do.
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Would people buy more packs, knowing they could trade the items they didn't want for items they did?
Would people buy fewer packs, because they could get all the items they want by trading items they don't want rather than by buying more packs?
Unless you can answer that across the player base, you can't say whether it's financially a good idea or not.
Arc#314490: Zombie Ninja Pirates!
Defiant @Grouchybeast
Death is part of my attack chain.
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Being able to trade them would make the system more deterministic- it would have the effect, similar to the tickets in MA, of 'concentrating' the good stuff. |
Originally Posted by Grouchybeast
That's really the key issue.
Would people buy more packs, knowing they could trade the items they didn't want for items they did? Would people buy fewer packs, because they could get all the items they want by trading items they don't want rather than by buying more packs? Unless you can answer that across the player base, you can't say whether it's financially a good idea or not. |
If I want, say, IO recipes I can fill up my inventory off one MA farming run, something that would take many, many repetitions of a 'real' farm.
It seems to me the ability to 'concentrate' super pack rewards would follow that same logic path- far fewer purchases would be needed to fill out the player's shopping list.
I'm not sure a change that would result in selling fewer packs is going to fly with the bean counters.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
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When you put it that way it does sound like a bad decision from their standpoint, yeah.|
Originally Posted by Nethergoat
Being able to trade them would make the system more deterministic- ... far fewer purchases would be needed to fill out the player's shopping list.
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So what if we drop the idea of buying anything that's currently in the packs or market, and just use this to offer items that are unavailable through other means? Like the retired Celestial set for example, or consumable options that aren't in the packs, such as Small-sized team and dual inspirations. That way you're not bypassing existing income sources; you would still need to have bought Super Packs (or the market items that appear in them) to gain the necessary currency. But rather than detracting from sales of the packs, it could help provoke their sales by creating an additional source of exclusive / preferred items.
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This reminds me of the experiment in business that is Steam. Following a similar logic, when Valve first started giving out discounts, they figured if they slashed a game's price to a fourth of its original cost, they'd need four times as many sales to make up the difference. The result, however, was closer to 20 times as many sales. An indie developer whose game had been on the market for a year before this discount reported their game making more money in purchases on day one of the sale than it had for its entire combined lifespan until then. What Valve discovered is they made considerably more money by charging people considerably less.|
Originally Posted by Nethergoat
Being able to trade them would make the system more deterministic- it would have the effect, similar to the tickets in MA, of 'concentrating' the good stuff.
If I want, say, IO recipes I can fill up my inventory off one MA farming run, something that would take many, many repetitions of a 'real' farm. It seems to me the ability to 'concentrate' super pack rewards would follow that same logic path- far fewer purchases would be needed to fill out the player's shopping list. I'm not sure a change that would result in selling fewer packs is going to fly with the bean counters. |
What I mean by this is the following: Yes, making the Super Packs more "deterministic" may reduce the number of Packs a person would need to buy, but it might just increase the scope of people willing to buy them considerably. I don't have statistics to back this up, of course, but I figure it might be worth a try, at least. I know I'd start buying Super Packs if I knew I could get what I wanted when I wanted it.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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This. If I'm putting down real cash for something, it damn well better we certain I get what I'm aiming for. There's a REASON I don't buy 'lucky-dip' style *anything* in real life. I'm sure I'm not the only one.
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
I know I'd start buying Super Packs if I knew I could get what I wanted when I wanted it.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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And what are you getting for certain when you pay for your cable TV? Do they give you a guaruntee you'll be getting specific programs at specific times and it will never change?|
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
This. If I'm putting down real cash for something, it damn well better we certain I get what I'm aiming for. There's a REASON I don't buy 'lucky-dip' style *anything* in real life. I'm sure I'm not the only one.
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Or are you just paying for viewing access to random programs that can be rescheduled, interrupted, or cancelled without consulting your personal preferences.
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Yes, because a subscription based analogy is perfectly suitable for one-off purchases like these.|
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
And what are you getting for certain when you pay for your cable TV? Do they give you a guaruntee you'll be getting specific programs at specific times and it will never change?
Or are you just paying for viewing access to random programs that can be rescheduled, interrupted, or cancelled without consulting your personal preferences. |
Oh. Wait. No it's not.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Ah yes when something can't be refuted dismiss it. |
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
Yes, because a subscription based analogy is perfectly suitable for one-off purchases like these.
Oh. Wait. No it's not. |
If this was implemented, the exchange rate to get the good stuff, like Catalysts would be extremely high.
Like, 50 common cards for one very rare card. Otherwise it'd defeat the whole purpose of the pack.
Current Published Arcs
#1 "Too Drunk to be Alcoholic" Arc #48942
#2 "To Slay Sleeping Dragons" Arc #111486
#3 "Stop Calling Me"
Lets you trade in cards you don't use to get the costumes and rares, or other cards you like better.
The idea I had was to create a vendor and a new function in the character item window, which together would let you turn the super pack cards you don't use into things that you do want. Selected entries in the Character Items list (specifically, all the items you can get in Super Packs * ) would have a new "Trade" button available. Using it removes the item from your list, but rather than getting the item itself you gain its value in a special salvage called "Super Cards".
( * Except for Catalysts, since they can drop in-game. They could lose too many potential sales due to people farming Catalysts to get all the high-end rewards.)
Super Cards by themselves are untradable, but you can use them at the "Card Collector" vendor to purchase certain items. Their list includes:
- Consumables from Super Packs (maybe other consumables as well)
- Costume pieces and rare prizes from Super Packs
- Retired Tier 9 VIP costume pieces (possibly other retired items as well)
- Holiday-exclusive powers, costume pieces, emotes, etc (thus making them available year round, although at a considerably higher price)
- Brand new powers or costume pieces exclusive to the Card Collector
Of course there has to be a price paid for convenience, so the conversion rate would be adjusted to reflect that. Meaning you would have to Trade in, say, three Common cards' worth of items to get one Common card's worth in return. For example, Trading in one charge of Restore gets you one Super Card, and it would take three Super Cards to purchase a Dual Inspiration.
One hitch I thought of was that many of these items can be bought on the market directly. But then I realized, so what? That still leads to the same end result... players spending money in the market. The key point here is that players can only get Super Cards through things they have spent actual money on, whether that's Super Packs or direct purchases. Even the bonuses from assigning Reward Tokens are (1) very limited in number, and (2) the direct result of spending money.
What this would allow is:
- Greater versatility in the rewards that players get from spending their money, particularly considering what many call the "gambling" nature of super packs
- A reliable and permanent means of getting certain items that are otherwise frustrating or impossible to obtain
- A way to help players feel like they are getting better value from the purchases they make, regardless of which reward types they prefer
- Players may become more willing to buy bundles of items, knowing that "leftovers" will no longer go to waste. Rather than sit unclaimed in their inbox for months, they can be turned in for things the player can and would use regularly