I like that Build Kyriani!!! Time is something that is new.
Plainguy "I will tell you if you take the time to learn it though, it just about will break the game for you. You will have your holy cow moments because you will be amazed at the amount of mobs that are attacking you and your not dying and your not a tank."
That is why I am on the forums asking questions. 
Never new there was a soft cap until now although I'm sure I probably reached it pretty easy with my very first toon being a FF/RAD. I probably helped my buddies reach the defense cap also. I"m reading a lot of these guides while I am at work. Some of these guides though are very outdated so I've learned to not consider them to be 100% correct. The game changes.
I'm also on these forms so I can learn from people who has already been there and made the mistakes I don't have to make.
Defender/Defender with APP being Defender. Best support combo in the game right there.
Whining about everything since 2006.
Ammo switching for Dual Pistols was my idea:
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=135484
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Although we could run you down on which primaries and secondaries are best on paper, the balance between sets in this game is pretty darn good.|
Originally Posted by UnderArmor
A lot of people will say “Play what is the most fun” I agree to an extent but to me have the strongest most effective hero I can is my goal and to me is the most fun. Effectiveness=Strong Hero=Win=Stronger Hero .
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Playstyle preferences will very often elevate an average player playing an average set that plays to his preferences, over a veteran player playing the "best" set but doesn't bother using most powers because they don't interest him.
So you'll find threads like this usually end up looking more like playing matchmaker than a one size fits all ranked list.
So, with no further ado: What do you like about the defender archetype? Buffs, ranged click buffs that improve allies' defense/resistance in particular? Force Field (Deflection Shield, Insulation Shield), Cold Domination (Ice Shield/Glacial Shield), Thermal Radiation (Fire Shield/Plasma Shield), Sonic Resonance (Sonic Barrier/Sonic Haven), Empathy (Fortitude), and Kinetics (Increase Density) are options for that. What else do you like? Cold and Thermal bring AV-melting debuffs to the table in addition to their shields, while Empathy and Kinetics are recharge buff happy, infinite endurance machines, with your choice of big regeneration (Emp) or big damage buffs (Kin). Was there any build in "the MMO that shall not be named" you enjoyed?
And, wow, we haven't even touched the secondary choices yet.
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| It sucks that support classes just are not needed anymore. It seems like the only time people team up is to farm. |
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| The LFG feature seems like a really nice feature, but it seems as I am the only one that regularly has “Looking for Anything” up and even when I do it seems I am more likely to get a blind invite from someone I run into on the street doing mission than I am from the LFG feature. |
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I think you're getting the picture, but I'll spell it out. Nothing is needed. 'Support' types don't need anything else any more either. Support types can and often do run on maxed diff. I farm with a defender solo quite often. And a team of all support is the most steamrolling you will ever see.
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Originally Posted by UnderArmor
It sucks that support classes just are not needed anymore. It seems like the only time people team up is to farm. The LFG feature seems like a really nice feature, but it seems as I am the only one that regularly has Looking for Anything up and even when I do it seems I am more likely to get a blind invite from someone I run into on the street doing mission than I am from the LFG feature. What you are saying makes a lot of sense. If everyone built a hero that didnt need someone else to survive, then it just doesn't matter what classes the group is made up of and it doesnt need to wait around for a support class to survive.
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There never has been and never will be a BEST.. Any set can bring something to a team. Even that FF defender. The forums are not the game. There are lots of people in the game who never come and read the forums. Everyone in game is not running around with a softcapped to everything build on every toon so FF bubbles will help them and in the end game they become even more important because the softcap is higher there.. |
Originally Posted by UnderArmor
So I came back to COH after going to play WOW and I have to say I love all the changes that have been made to COH over the years. In the past I was disappointed. My last main toon was a FF/RAD defender and I loved it!! I noticed he still sucks at SOLOing but I built him for team support and seemed like the team would rarely take any serious damage if any at all.
I know that powers can get nerfed or buffed over time. So what is the best Defender Primary/Secondary power set to go support a team with? (From what I have read on the forums it sounds like Force Fields is not the best support defender to roll.) |
I say play what you enjoy and learn to play it well and YOU will be an asset to any team.. not just the powerset. Ive seen so called best sets played terribly..
The hard things I can do--- The impossible just take a little bit longer.
If numbers are so much more important than a teammate who is fun to play with, forget about the game altogether and go play with a calculator instead. -Claws and Effect-
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That is why I have the stuff I do in my Signature. Its not outdated, its current and valid information. Those are links that people have given to me when I asked and started learning the math behind the game. You just need the patience to read until you understand it. |
Originally Posted by UnderArmor
I like that Build Kyriani!!! Time is something that is new.
Plainguy "I will tell you if you take the time to learn it though, it just about will break the game for you. You will have your holy cow moments because you will be amazed at the amount of mobs that are attacking you and your not dying and your not a tank." That is why I am on the forums asking questions. Never new there was a soft cap until now although I'm sure I probably reached it pretty easy with my very first toon being a FF/RAD. I probably helped my buddies reach the defense cap also. I"m reading a lot of these guides while I am at work. Some of these guides though are very outdated so I've learned to not consider them to be 100% correct. The game changes.I'm also on these forms so I can learn from people who has already been there and made the mistakes I don't have to make. |
The next thing you will notice is that particular sets are conducive to being able to obtain certain numbers. Example your not going to get Defense capped on a Necro Poison mastermind. The IO sets just do NOT lend themselves to doing that. Well let me say you could but it would be probably the most retard build ever with several powers your just picking to be mules for IO set bonuses.
You will start to see certain trends when players are trying for a particular defense cap or resistance cap. You will start to know right off the bat which Targeted AOE sets will help you gain recharge bonus for example.
When your trying to make these builds there is only so much wiggle room you have. So looking at a Defense cap AR Traps and a Defense cap Dark Traps you will notice that many of the powers are slotted similarly and then you will see 4 or 5 powers that player choice. But overall its going to be the same.
Wife, kids, and work calls me on weeknights and weekends 365 24x7.. So I know it can be crazy. Trust me when you learn and get the gist you can make Any build regardless of arch type if you want. The learning curve is the powers.
Personally I have yet to get a grasp on Kheldians. They just confuse the carp out of me sometimes. I have 2 in mid 30s I hate to delete so I need to take time to figure them out.
1. Why Soft Cap is Important : http://dechskaison.blogspot.com/2011...important.html
2. Limits: http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Limits
3. Attack Mechanics: http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Attack_Mechanics
4. Rule of Five: http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Rule_o...e_Law_of_Fives
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Gotta totally second this. |
Originally Posted by Airhammer
There never has been and never will be a BEST.. Any set can bring something to a team. Even that FF defender. The forums are not the game. There are lots of people in the game who never come and read the forums. Everyone in game is not running around with a softcapped to everything build on every toon so FF bubbles will help them and in the end game they become even more important because the softcap is higher there..
I say play what you enjoy and learn to play it well and YOU will be an asset to any team.. not just the powerset. Ive seen so called best sets played terribly.. |
'Best' is always what fills a need on the team, and that need varies based on team make-up, and the enemies/challenges you face. And, even at the incarnate level, the devs have varied the challenges pretty well, so what's really needed on one isn't as important in the next. So, the best varies from moment to moment based on FotM, and a slew of other factors.
Best bet is to make something that solos well based on your play style, and that also has things to contribute to a team. Build it then so that you enjoy playing it, and you'll be fine.
I generally prefer debuffing orientated sets since debuffs work well solo, and just get better the bigger the team, but that is, again, just a personal preference, and not ideal for all situations. Many situations are out there where a Force Field will trump Dark or Rads tohit debuffs.
I wrote a whole paragraph about trick arrow and how good it was..
..then I remembered that it really isn't so 
No reason to go anything other than Cold Domination anymore
Whining about everything since 2006.
Ammo switching for Dual Pistols was my idea:
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=135484
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I love Cold Dom for all that it is(I have 3), but I still like my Traps/Sonic over every other combo for a defender.
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Originally Posted by Vel_Overload
I wrote a whole paragraph about trick arrow and how good it was..
..then I remembered that it really isn't so No reason to go anything other than Cold Domination anymore |
@MARTy McFly
Sounds Like Traps/Cold Domination/and Time are the top of the lists of Defenders that are the best/most prefered or at least power pools that you can't go wrong with.
I agree that every defender can bring something to the table, but I still feel that SOME power sets are overall/all around more effective than others. Of course if a six year old or someone comparable in IQ is controlling the toon it doesn't matter what power set they have.
It really depends on what you want to do, and what your team already has.
Traps, Cold, and Time are all quite beastly, but Rad, Kin, and Dark are equally beastly. Thermal and Sonic are awesome in the iTrials when there is a lot of folks at the def cap, but not so much at the Res cap. Trick Arrow is an all out assault, but can be hard to level as it doesn't bring a ton of survivability tools. Once you get one to 50 and tricked out, tho, it can hold it's own just fine with the rest. Storm is brutal, too and very effective from the moment Freezing Rain becomes available (8 I think). Force Field I'd say is the one obviously lagging, but it's probably the biggest game changer lvl 1-30, and often even 1-45. Um... I guess what I'm saying is, no, there isn't one that is all around better. Just people with preferences, or areas where one shines more than another.
If you have a very specific task, play style, and group make-up in mind, there might be one obvious choice over another, but otherwise, there really isn't.
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This is pretty noteworthy, in my opinion. The way the metagame has gone with defense being so easy to get, resistance buffs are very desirable.
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Originally Posted by Madadh
Thermal and Sonic are awesome in the iTrials when there is a lot of folks at the def cap, but not so much at the Res cap.
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I've been going through these same gyrations myself with defenders recently. I'll put my vote in for /Sonic as a secondary, however.
The -Res innate in /Sonic is higher for defenders, to the point that it actually ends up doing more damage than the same power in a Sonic/ corruptor (without scourge) given the defender solo buff. It has a rank 1 power that, because it also applies a 20% resist debuff, is worth being forced to take and makes the basis of a very early attack chain. Once you get the first 3 powers in /Sonic, you really don't *need* any more attacks from the primary, which frees up a ton of slots for doing anything you want with your build. /Sonic also works well for teams where you lose the solo buff, but the stacking -resist debuff is still applied, and Howl is very nice for slapping lots of mobs with -20% resist.
As for the primary, I looked at Time, Traps, and Cold as well. I primarily focused on Time and Traps, because they're the two sets with major defense buffs that can also self buff while still providing debuffs to help survivability and kill speed.
Some things I paid attention to:
AoE vs Single Target: Both traps and time had good AoE coverage on debuffs. Time's debuff is a toggle where traps is a long recharge ground spawn. Traps can debuff resists early, unlike time which speeds up killing at lower levels, once you have the recharge to lay down an acid mortar on each spawn.
Recharge: Time buffs recharge and has fewer recharge intensive powers (more toggles and longer duration buffs). Traps doesn't buff recharge and has multiple debuffs with the same 90 second recharge, making them a pain at low levels. SO's really help traps as 3 recharge SO's in Acid Mortar, Poison Gas Trap, and Seeker Drones can allow you to use them at least once per spawn and for larger spawns twice (overlapping Acid Mortar).
Self Preservation: Force Field Generator is traps major self protection, and you get that pretty early. Time has a mix of a heal, a -to hit toggle, and eventually Far Sight (which you get at 18 rather than at 8 for FFG).
Status Protection: Traps has it, Time doesn't, which led me to take traps.
Healing: Time has it, Traps doesn't. The defender ATIO proc does have a self heal that, at the higher levels of defense given by a SO'ed FFG, keeps you topped up and safe easily enough. Don't forget to refresh FFG.
Self buffs vs team buffs: Time has one buff that can't be cast on yourself and can be skipped. Every skill in traps can benefit a solo defender.
Late bloomer vs Fast starter: Both traps and time seemed to start off fairly quickly (not Rad quickly, but still, not as late as Kinetics). They're kind of odd. Traps gives you all of your really nice powers by level 18, but you don't have enough slots / skills / access to good enhancements until later to get the recharge down on them. Time doesn't give you your good defense buff until 18 and your good resist debuff until 26, but it's not like it's a crap set before those two skills. I'd say they're both pretty equal as far as that goes. Time feels sturdier to start with, but doesn't get your "premium skills" until 18 and 26. Traps feels a bit more klunky to start with (lots of high recharge powers), but Acid Mortar and Force Field Generator come at such a low level they give you a good idea of what's to come every couple of spawns and keep you pushing to level up.
Time/Sonic/Power on SO's is pretty impressive if built right...
About 40% personal defense to everything perma with power build up/farsight (also includes weave and hover but I am not counting either being affected by power build up)
About 65% s/l resistance with tough and temp invuln
Farsight gives your whole group 30% defense to everything and nearly 25% to-hit buff
Cone Sleep - great for soloing and can be useful in groups when unintended aggro is drawn.
Temporal Selection buff is always appreciated by groups (could skip this and take Single target mag 3 stun, stackable to stun most bosses instead for solo play)
Single target mag 3 hold, stackable to hold most bosses... holds most bosses for a few seconds with 1 application if you Time Crawl them first
Panic button in Force of Nature that almost soft caps your resistance to all damage except psi
Sonic Blasts have built in -20% res debuffs
Endurance is manageable... moreso if you get the end affecting accolades
You can easily fit in stealth and travel powers
Here's an example on purely SO's:
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.957
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Level 50 Magic Defender
Primary Power Set: Time Manipulation
Secondary Power Set: Sonic Attack
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Concealment
Power Pool: Fighting
Ancillary Pool: Power Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Time Crawl -- Acc(A)
Level 1: Shriek -- Acc(A), Dmg(5), Dmg(5), Dmg(7)
Level 2: Scream -- Acc(A), Dmg(7), Dmg(9), Dmg(9), EndRdx(11), RechRdx(11)
Level 4: Howl -- Acc(A), Dmg(13), Dmg(13), Dmg(15), EndRdx(15), RechRdx(17)
Level 6: Fly -- EndRdx(A)
Level 8: Time's Juncture -- EndRdx(A), EndRdx(48), ToHitDeb(48), ToHitDeb(48)
Level 10: Temporal Mending -- RechRdx(A), RechRdx(39), EndRdx(39), EndRdx(40), Heal(40), Heal(40)
Level 12: Time Stop -- Acc(A), Hold(17), Hold(23), RechRdx(25), RechRdx(25), RechRdx(27)
Level 14: Distortion Field -- RechRdx(A)
Level 16: Shout -- Acc(A), Dmg(29), Dmg(31), Dmg(31), Range(31), Range(33)
Level 18: Farsight -- DefBuff(A), DefBuff(19), RechRdx(19), RechRdx(21), RechRdx(21), RechRdx(23)
Level 20: Temporal Selection -- Heal(A), Heal(27), Heal(29), RechRdx(42), RechRdx(43), RechRdx(43)
Level 22: Hover -- EndRdx(A)
Level 24: Boxing -- Acc(A)
Level 26: Slowed Response -- Acc(A), RechRdx(34), RechRdx(37)
Level 28: Siren's Song -- Acc(A), RechRdx(37), RechRdx(39)
Level 30: Tough -- EndRdx(A), EndRdx(34), ResDam(34), ResDam(37)
Level 32: Chrono Shift -- RechRdx(A), RechRdx(33), RechRdx(33)
Level 35: Power Build Up -- RechRdx(A), RechRdx(36), RechRdx(36), RechRdx(36)
Level 38: Weave -- EndRdx(A), EndRdx(43), DefBuff(46), DefBuff(50)
Level 41: Temp Invulnerability -- EndRdx(A), EndRdx(42), ResDam(42), ResDam(46)
Level 44: Force of Nature -- RechRdx(A), RechRdx(45), RechRdx(45), ResDam(45), ResDam(46)
Level 47: Amplify -- RechRdx(A), RechRdx(50), RechRdx(50)
Level 49: Stealth -- EndRdx(A)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Vigilance
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Health -- Heal(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- EndMod(A), EndMod(3), EndMod(3)
Level 0: Freedom Phalanx Reserve
Level 0: Portal Jockey
Level 0: Task Force Commander
Level 0: The Atlas Medallion
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Jem - Ill/Rad Controller Lv 50+3 Nic - Mind/Psi Dominator Lv 50+3 Lady Liberation - Invuln/SS Tanker Lv 50+1 Invicitx - Demon/Pain Mastermind Lv 50+1 Celeste - Emp/Arch Defender Lv 50+1 Nightsilver - DB/WP Scrapper Lv 34 Dusk Howl - StJ/Regen Brute Lv 32 Kyriani - Time/Energy Defender Lv 41Psifire - FF/Psi Defender Lv 50
Star Lighter - LB/LA Peacebringer Lv 30