Master of Magisterium (MoMAG) The Really Hard Way 6/8-9/12

Im game, sign me up

Mak - when I get home today I will try and build a damage heavy league and see how that works and report back.

What seems most important, is getting away from tyrant for lightning spawn so we can get back in the fight asap without dmg.

I'd wonder if a heal heavy league might be even better if it meant being able to stand toe to toe with Tyrant, just not sure even a league with lots of heals could stand there the whole time without moving because of the lightning flow effect.

Good luck Kotchie, let us know!

Even with all the heals, you don't want to stand around close to him, the lightning strikes will stack. I have been able to shrug of a few hits especially while jumping around, but if I stay close I notice I'm getting hit by 3-4 and then I die.

On my brute I will usually jump around and use my range attacks during the strikes since I have enough HP and a self heal to stay alive.

I also noticed on one league that we were damage heavy and it seemed to go smoother.

The biggest thing is for people to stay alive and keep the damage on him. Having a few dedicated people with barrier with the rez might be a good thing.

We tried Barrier + Rez and it helps, but not much. For example, if you died in a lightning patch, you can't be rezzed until after. If you're alive and with Barrier, you might be too far from the goofs that died when you cast it, etc.

The hosp isn't too slow. Part of the delay is retoggling/rebuffing after dying.

I suspected heal umbrella isn't enough, but it would have to be a constant stream of heals if it could work at all.

You're right that steady DMG (esp. once he hits 50%) seems to be king here.

The real key still seems to be moving out and then in at crackles so the lightning flow doesn't affect other players and the patches are far from Tyrant melee range.

Count me in:

Main Badger Eris Enyalios (SS/WP Brute)

I have the following +3 alts available as required:

Skadi Victoria (Ice/Kin Cor)
Aeval Morrigan (Dark/Sonic Cor)
Erinyes Enyalios (Sonic/Rad Cor)
Hoctrabane (Bane with all debuffs....on a single target can exceed a rad for -res)
Dread Wizard Dvoc (Fire/Dark Blaster)
Witwespinne (Fortunata)

I have other +3 alts as well but these seemed the most useful.

My wife @gorgiana o'gryss would also like to attend. She has multiple +3 toons available as well including:

Votress Staff/Inv Scrapper
Sea Change Ill/Rad Controller

I agree Mak, the smoothest runs I've been on were those where the melee group was diligent about backing out for the lightning, then collapsing back in to continue DPS. The ones that rubberbanded between 20-40% were the ones where people didn't move, and Tyrant was inaccessible for melee dmg for 'extended' periods (or DPS suffered because a bunch of people died).

I try, when I see a problem with Tyrant being surrounded by lightning, to taunt him to a clearer area, which seems to help a little. The best solution, though, is to just move out of the way and keep his area clear.

katana SR

We had a good run last night. Ramblings follow. Here's the basics:

DEATHS
Approximately 7 deaths (I have some moderate sized gaps, so not positive). That's pretty damn good, of course we could be better.

We had occasional death snoozers waiting between 8-20 seconds before rezzing, but most rezzed by the next screen shot. Also, I didn't bother trying to determine how long before they get back in the action.

I think it's rule of thumb is about 30 seconds are lost per player per death and about average 30 seconds lost per afk defeated.

So that's about 11 delays or 330 seconds out of a 13,800 second fight (~600 second fight with 23 people), or about 2.4% loss of DPS. It's not much, but I suspect there were some halfhearted DMG dealers (myself included since I was doing screenies and using Surveillance and hitting lights). Also, after dying, you lose toggles, buffs, and pets, so the extent of the loss can be magnified quite a bit.

The best news is that only 2 people died during the Favor of the Well phase and they got back up pretty quick it looks like.

LIGHTS
I guesstimate that we took out about 50-53 lights based on the screen shots. If I run before FRI, I would like to try not to take out lights until the 50% mark and see how feasible it is.

We'd have to get like 20% of those lights to get The Hard Way, which is the failsafe backstop if everything hits the fan on FRI/SAT.

TIME
It took us about 9 mins (assuming the timer really starts at 20:00 or 19:50), we made him go mini-T around 10:53 left. However, that's with random level shifts being tossed out.

SCREENSHOTS
During my screenshots, I recorded 19 data points where the FAVOR of the WELL tracked with his HEALTH. I can easily extrapolate to the entire range:

Favor = 00 Health = 100-50
Favor = 02 Health = 49
Favor = 04 Health = 48
...
Favor = 50 Health = 25
Favor = 60 Health = 20
Favor = 70 Health = 15
...
Favor = 98 Health = 1 [Theoretically]

During the testing, the lowest we had Tyrant's health before he became mini-T was 11.9% according to Combat Attribs and 13% according to trial window.

Favor = 74 Health = 13

That occurred about 11:13 remaining. His Health fluctuated between 13 and 18 until 10:54. The last screen shot I had before he went mini-T his health was 17% at 12:55:45.
Within 4 seconds, 12:45:49, I had a screen shot with a countdown timer at 0:08 seconds.

Based on that, I can assume that the timer is 10 seconds long before he respawns as mini-T.

Which means we decreased his health from 17% to 13% or less in about 2 seconds. Pretty impressive, but not sure what's going on there. Maybe he despawned at 15%, but I definitely have a screen shot of his health at 13% and the fight raged on for 20 more seconds.


Let me give you another perspective on his Regeneration based on the Favor.
RegRate = -0.07 (102.26) Health = 100-50%
RegRate = -0.20 (274.31) Health = 44
RegRate = -0.24 (329.50) Health = 42.9 [ODD it's more negative, should be less hp/sec]
RegRate = -0.25 (334.60) Health = 42.7 [...]
RegRate = -0.26 (349.66) Health = 46.9 [notice the HP jump, but RegRate goes slightly more negative and HP regen goes slightly up]

I think if you make -.24 etc a positive number, the correlation seems much stronger.

ROUGH GUESSTIMATES
each 0.1 increase in RegRate = ~ 14 hp/sec increase
each 0.1 decrease in Health = ~ 25 hp/sec increase

Next Run I will keep the Base open more completely, so I can see everything affecting him. I had it minimized and just monitored the top level categories so I could focus on Resistance stats this run.

Importantly, his health % in the health window and in Combat Attributes doesn't always track very well, specifically when he seems to get a 4-5% heal buff to his hp every once in a while. I couldn't make sense of when the heal bump occurs (e.g., is it on a timer every 30-45 seconds or something else), but it's noticeable and occurred it appears to have occurred at least 9 times starting around 17:45.

It didn't seem to coincide with the lights respawning or with people dying. Perhaps the Olympians give him a health boost when he absorbs them or something?

Also, let me put a rumor I started to bed. I saw no change in his resistance based on how many Lights of the Well were active. That's good in the sense that disabling Lights appears only to Shift Level UP and not diminish or augment him in any way.

Conjecturing, The Really Hard Way is intended to be done at 53 (54 with Ultimate) or maybe as high as 55 (56 with Ultimate) when the Incarnate stuff is over with.

I did some testing this afternoon and found that Tyrant is not immune to -HP debuffs. In fact, they work quite well. I slotted Degenerative Interface and noticed that every time it proc'ed, it took off 1000 points from his total Health. Since we can't do -regen, I think this might be a good alternate. I'm not sure how stackable it is though.


Also, another observation. I noticed that Tyrant's total health before being debuffed was lower on a small league. It was 90k on a 13-man league, and about 130k on an 18-man league. I didn't check with a 24-man league.

Still, that might mean that a small efficient group could have a better chance at success. We may want to check and see at what number of enemies his HP goes up and size the league accordingly.

According to pwiki: "A single target can have up to 4 Max HP debuffs, even from different casters."

But still, on a small league of the debuff HP is the same amount, that's like -4k on a 90k HP AV, that's like a -4.5% debuff, pretty noice.

Sign me up boss

We ran a full MoMAG test again tonight. Was having issues with closed league.

The test was for Incandescent. As I feared, the flow is too great when a league of 24 is mostly ported together so too many die too fast. At least it's unpredictable. If you know it's coming, you can move right away, but if stuck in an animation or speed suppressed, you're dead.

So, it's going to have to revert back to the pulsating method. That is, manually running out and then back in when air crackles.

SUGGESTIONS:
DO NOT BUTTON MASH. ONE ATTACK AT A TIME.
IF AN ATTACK IS QUEUED, PRESS ESCAPE TO CANCEL IT
ANTICIPATE AIR CRACKLES, SO YOU'RE NOT TRAVEL SUPPRESSED

The run we had was good. We spent about 4 mins just dying playing around with incand. A few more, then we starting using lights. Started getting stuck in the 25-35 range, but got him without too much trouble. It was a nice turnaround.

You can sign me up, I can be on Freezor Burnz (fire/cold corr), or SlimGoodie (nrg/nrg blaster specializing in long range and fast movement with fly)

Tonights the night!!!!

What time should our forces gather? I plan on being in Pocket D around 9:30 at the latest.

Atomic, 9:30 is good. I'll try to be there as soon as I can, but I specifically set 10:00pm because it's usually after baby bed time.

TopDoc, I think AV HP scaling is the norm with iTrials. Doing a 12 person KEY or 8 person LAM gives a lower HP AV than 24 person trials. I never paid much attention to it.

The HP do not dynamically scale, however. His HP would not drop in half if half quit. If we have a really bad run, we can pretty easily test, by having some people quit the league early, but almost positive you will not see any change (if you did, it would be Bug Hunter worthy).

3rd run, MoMAG successful, but used 6-7 lights. Still no Really Hard Way, but we're having too many deaths even with experienced players. We'll get it tight soon. Good run everyone.

Will post more tomorrow if I have time.

won t be there tonight, good luck everyone

Mak - Thank you for hosting!!!

Couple obsevations -

1. ALOT of those in melee dont get the fact you have to MOVE AWAY from Tyrant so the LIGHTNING doesnt hit near him, thus allowing us to get back into the fight. It doesnt matter if you can survive it, others cant. This happened alot, and IMO, was the reason we DID NOT get RHW.
2. You flying Blasters/debuffs/tanks...I HATE YOU...stopping pulling him UP..you may still be able to hit him...but alot of damage dealers CAN NOT!!! (and do not say to taunt him down, he just flys up and still hits us on the ground. You have to hit him with -fly power, and those are typically long animations, which are bad) I get that the Lightning can be avoided by going straight up..I get that...but..cmon...
3. Someone mentioned taunting him early to draw aggro...which is valid...but when you have 5 different people taunting him in every direction...it doesnt work so well, and makes it harder to get back in the fight. If you only have one its still hard, you do not knoow what direction he is retreating and Tyrant is GOING to follow, making it harder to get back in the fight.

Overall I think it was a pretty good learning experience...alot of people just dont get that move out and get back in process though...they wait for the lightning to completely go away, or they stay on Tyrant thinking they will survive.