So what to do with Tyrant?
By
Aggelakis,
Posted on: 2012-05-30 14:48 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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Eh, there's nothing particularly bad about Praetoria. There's really nothing that we haven't done to ourselves here on our earth.
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Originally Posted by Venture
I have argued in the past that there is reason to believe the entire civilization of Praetoria suffered some kind of critical failure in ethical development.
That doesn't change the facts. No matter how long the history of making bad decisions it's never too late to start making good ones. Praetorians just decided to stick with what didn't work. We get a good look at what things were like in the US from the Destroyer's story in Jessica Flores' arc. It wasn't pretty. |
"Men strunt �r strunt och snus �r snus
om ock i gyllne dosor.
Och rosor i ett sprucket krus
�r st�ndigt alltid rosor."
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That's no excuse to sit back and let the loyalists go free - they needed to be brought to justice for thier crimes - and they were |
Originally Posted by Arilou
Eh, there's nothing particularly bad about Praetoria. There's really nothing that we haven't done to ourselves here on our earth.
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
I what I think will happen with the lore, if Tyrant is defeated and lost his link to the well, he will be put on Trial in Praetoria First, letting his own people and rest of Praetoria decided his fate.
If it was Primal Earth who decided his Fate, then he be lock away somewhere where light does not shine and no one will weep for him or help him Escape, Since this is a Hero Game then he won't be put to death.
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Use him as a source of clean energy for the entire world - have him operate a crank to generate electricity.
a hundred or so years of moving your arms in a circular motion without stopping for a break would rehabilitate him up good. And by that point I'm sure they'll find a cleaner source of alternative energy.
http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php...&id=2305#comic
you could have it all
My empire of dirt
I will let you down
I will make you <3
On the Google+ hangout today they confirmed that he was captured by us and not killed, so he's officially in our hands now.
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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Rampant use of nuclear weapons? Including, I might add, a fairly blatant (and mostly successful) attempt to "frag" America's own heroes? Ignoring the refugee problem on America's own shores resulting from the retaliation for said attacks? Allowing the Midwest, well before the Devoring Earth problem, to turn into a region of near anarchy, biker gangs taking territory for their own at will? Throwing American citizens to the wolves in the face of Devouring Earth attacks?| Eh, there's nothing particularly bad about Praetoria. There's really nothing that we haven't done to ourselves here on our earth. |
These people were bastards long before their world went to hell...and were probably the reason why it did.
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| On the Google+ hangout today they confirmed that he was captured by us and not killed, so he's officially in our hands now. |
Current Blog Post: "Why I am an Atheist..."
"And I say now these kittens, they do not get trained/As we did in the days when Victoria reigned!" -- T. S. Eliot, "Gus, the Theatre Cat"
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So we've never used nuclear weapons OTL? No one has ever ignored a refugee crisis?
| Rampant use of nuclear weapons? |
"Men strunt �r strunt och snus �r snus
om ock i gyllne dosor.
Och rosor i ett sprucket krus
�r st�ndigt alltid rosor."
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That doesn't always ring true.
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Hurting people who've fallen into your hands is the mark of a villain, not a hero.
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Raid Leader of Task Force Vendetta "Steel 70", who defeated the first nine Drop Ships in the Second Rikti War.
70 Heroes, 9 Drop Ships, 7 Minutes. The Aliens never knew what hit them.
Now soloing: GM-Class enemy Adamaster, with a Tanker!
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Only bad people would hurt someone they had in their power - cruelty like that isn't soemthing good people would do.
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Originally Posted by Sylph_Knight
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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Killing him would lower us to his level.
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Originally Posted by Venture
For the record, the answer to the question of what to do with Tyrant involves the words "bullet" and "brain".
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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That's an often-used argument, with little evidence to support it.
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Killing him would lower us to his level.
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My Stories
Look at that. A full-grown woman pulling off pigtails. Her crazy is off the charts.
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We don't murder our enemies - we give them the justice they denied to their victims - that's why we arrest mobs on missions, even if they've done terrible things.
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Originally Posted by Mr_Grey
That's an often-used argument, with little evidence to support it.
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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Most people who are arrested don't flop to the floor like they have just been shot in the head though...
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
We don't murder our enemies - we give them the justice they denied to their victims - that's why we arrest mobs on missions, even if they've done terrible things.
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[Union Chat]Sebaddon: If you want to, we will, if you think it's weird, no, that's damz, not us.
[Union Chat]Damz: hey cyber, i am your naked pope for the evening, please confess to me my child
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That's a very black and white perspective of the world. Good people do bad things all the time, and vice-versa. But there is definitely a moral event horizon that they will typically avoid.|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Only bad people would hurt someone they had in their power - cruelty like that isn't soemthing good people would do.
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I've personally imagined that my character broke Tyrant's arm before knocking him out cold and bringing him in as firm a reminder of what pain feels like, since his virtual omnipotence clearly denied him the ability to empathize with the people he betrayed and murdered in Nova Praetoria - people who clearly still had faith in him in spite of all evidence to do otherwise at this point - with his Nagasaki Temper-Tantrum to fuel his Tartarus Power-Boost.
That said, not every Hero is an absolute Paragon, though their moral code still puts them a step above a Vigilante who may not have any qualms killing someone.
Raid Leader of Task Force Vendetta "Steel 70", who defeated the first nine Drop Ships in the Second Rikti War.
70 Heroes, 9 Drop Ships, 7 Minutes. The Aliens never knew what hit them.
Now soloing: GM-Class enemy Adamaster, with a Tanker!
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They do if they're hit with superpowers |
Originally Posted by Black_Assassin
Most people who are arrested don't flop to the floor like they have just been shot in the head though...
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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Torture in any form is totally morally unacceptable.|
Originally Posted by Sylph_Knight
I've personally imagined that my character broke Tyrant's arm before knocking him out cold and bringing him in as firm a reminder of what pain feels like
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Just because it was a daily fact of life under the loyalist dictatorship, that doesn't mean we have to give loyalist prisoners a taste of their own medicine - we're better than them, so we treat them properly.
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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Oh I never said it was morally acceptable, but one bad act doesn't make one evil. |
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Torture in any form is totally morally unacceptable.
Just because it was a daily fact of life under the loyalist dictatorship, that doesn't mean we have to give loyalist prisoners a taste of their own medicine - we're better than them, so we treat them properly. |
Case in point - the crowning moment of awesome in the new Avengers movie is when Loki gets in Hulk's face as though he has some kind of authority over his fate. The Hulk, who could have knocked him out then and there, instead proceeds to beat him senseless. Is it moral? No, but I'll be damned if it doesn't feel a little bit good to see a scumbag get what's coming to them.
This isn't the Star Wars Universe where one bad deed puts you on the Dark Side forevermore. Flawed characters aren't always the best role-models, but they can be more easy to relate with. And we as players should always understand the difference between a power fantasy and what is acceptable in reality - but that doesn't mean we have to play our roles like we would in reality. That's why it's a fantasy.
Raid Leader of Task Force Vendetta "Steel 70", who defeated the first nine Drop Ships in the Second Rikti War.
70 Heroes, 9 Drop Ships, 7 Minutes. The Aliens never knew what hit them.
Now soloing: GM-Class enemy Adamaster, with a Tanker!
Quote:
It makes you open to more evil, and makes you permanently morally questionable.
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Originally Posted by Sylph_Knight
Oh I never said it was morally acceptable, but one bad act doesn't make one evil.
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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By that logic, anyone who's smudged their reputation should just try to blow up the universe because any state but perfection is meaningless. |
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
It makes you open to more evil, and makes you permanently morally questionable.
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Humans are inherently evil, more so because we grasp the concept of inflicting pain upon others on a conscious level. As children, we were little more than parasites. Humanity is something that we learn and acquire through our lifetime, and fail to uphold at one point or another - it is not a single hit point to be demolished upon squashing the first fly that lands on our monitor.
No one has lived a perfect life. Do good you can where you see it and amend for your mistakes where you are able.
Raid Leader of Task Force Vendetta "Steel 70", who defeated the first nine Drop Ships in the Second Rikti War.
70 Heroes, 9 Drop Ships, 7 Minutes. The Aliens never knew what hit them.
Now soloing: GM-Class enemy Adamaster, with a Tanker!
Quote:
Actually, it's the opposite - we're inherently good, which is why bad people are an exception rather than something normal.|
Originally Posted by Sylph_Knight
Humans are inherently evil.
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That's why evil people like Tyrant and any other loyalist prisoners we might have need to be treated properly.
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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No, SOCIETY is inherently good because it fosters cooperation. Take two children who were never raised within civilization and starve them for a few days, then put them in a room with an apple between them and they will kill each other for that food. |
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Actually, it's the opposite - we're inherently good, which is why bad people are an exception rather than something normal.
That's why evil people like Tyrant and any other loyalist prisoners we might have need to be treated properly. |
Humans are animals and will do what is advantageous unless otherwise trained, but thousands of years of evolution within society has taught us to be more receptive to learning concepts such as sacrifice and mercy because it uplifts the species.
I'm no fan of Neitzsche, but he makes some good points despite the fact that hopelessness had nothing to do with getting humanity where it is today.
Raid Leader of Task Force Vendetta "Steel 70", who defeated the first nine Drop Ships in the Second Rikti War.
70 Heroes, 9 Drop Ships, 7 Minutes. The Aliens never knew what hit them.
Now soloing: GM-Class enemy Adamaster, with a Tanker!
Human are above anaimals - that why when they fall to the level of animals, like Tyrant and the loyalists did, it becomes a problem that needs to be fixed.
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
Things made out of matter are inherently destructive.
Living creatures are inherently evil.
Evolved creatures are inherently intelligent.
Human beings are the single most terrifyingly intelligent, evil, and destructive force on the planet.
"Evil" is just a term that "heroes" throw around to describe someone with opposing viewpoints.
You let this guy do anything but die and he's going to slaughter another few billion in the name of security through Fascism, WHEN he escapes. And all of the ghosts of those kids, women, puppies, kittens, and soldiers he kills are going to look you in the eye every time you try to sleep and they're going to ask you why his life was worth so many of theirs.
you could have it all
My empire of dirt
I will let you down
I will make you <3
There's no such thing as fate - bad people can be saved, so the effort needs to be made to save them.
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
Tyant: Everyone Statesman's gone numb Im so dumb I should have just told you what I lost was a piece of my heir!
Now hes gone, gone forever,
but I guess, what does it matter?
When I just... just attacked all of you there.
Oh, I just attacked all of you there with me, my foe...
if youre even my foe.
You like this? This is what was missing from this thread! The truth!
What am I to you? Am I a clone, your alt or your brother?
What am I to you? Do you look down on me 'cause my dimension's younger?
Do you think that I dont understand?
I just wanted us to rumble and triumphant raise my hand,
Last night was the most fun I've ever had,
Even liked it when the two of us would get mad... at each other.
Oh, you, a-a-a-a-are my best foe in this world.
You a-a-a-a-are my best foe in this world.
And thats ri-i-i-i-ight Im talking about the two alternate worlds.
And you, Darrin Wade,
Try that spell in Praetoria and you'll be filleted .
What am I to you?
What am I to you? Am I a clone, your alt or your brother?
What am I to you? Do you look down on me 'cause my dimension's younger?
Do you think that I dont understand?
I just wanted us to rumble and triumphant raise my hand,
Ill forget that I tore out some hair,
Ill remember we fought to the death ... over there.
"OooooAaaaa!"
Oh, you, a-a-a-a-are my best foe in this world.
You a-a-a-a-are my best foe in this world.
And thats ri-i-i-i-ight Im talking about the two alternate worlds.
And you, Darrin Wade,
Try that spell in Praetoria and you'll be filleted .
Make no mistake I will have a threat so real it'll make this Paragon break