"One build to rule them all."
By
4c3Player,
Posted on: 2012-05-19 22:40 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
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because 1 small purple puts you from 32.5 to 45%.
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Originally Posted by Dz131
I don't get it, how is it almost capped at all? Are you counting Afterburner?
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I owe some more apologies to some people who have Plant/Psi Dominators that actually exist. Little_Whorn comes to mind: So, I sincerely apologize. I just did a couple of ambush runs with my pal. On a smaller map our times were within a second of each other. On a larger map, he actually beat me by almost a minute. I was very impressed- He did a much better job keeping runners locked down which made him more efficient than me on the larger map. I must say that I apologize for doubting the abilities of the Plant Dominator.
I'm curious to see the impact that the ridiculous amount of confusion has on rewards earned, since quite a lot of his confused enemies seemed to be defeating each other. We were going to do a single target test also, but it started to get late, and I need to go get some food and get ready for the hockey game.
I apologize again to everyone (characters that actually exist) who I doubted though.
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Originally Posted by Dz131
I don't get it, how is it almost capped at all? Are you counting Afterburner?
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The build is set up so it caps with one purple. It's not a bad move overall, but it's idiosyncratic.
I do give him props for building a powerful build that has Fly and Afterburner. That's got to be some kind of achievement. Lack of invisibility is a major detractor in incarnate content though.
Regardless, a single purple would not save this build from Devouring Earth. Devouring Earth give my Ice/Fire Dominator fits, and he has much better mitigation than this Blaster (Arctic Air is basically a much bigger version of World of Confusion that also doesn't mostly suck).
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Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy
that actually exist.
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Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy
our times were within a second of each other.
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Grown ups haven't moved to DA like the cool kids?
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Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy
That's where we do trials on the grown up server.
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I don't suffer from altitis, I enjoy every minute of it.
Thank you Devs & Community people for a great game.
So sad to be ending ):
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Trying so hard, and yet I proved mine exists.|
Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy
I owe some more apologies to some people who have Plant/Psi Dominators that actually exist. Little_Whorn comes to mind: So, I sincerely apologize. I just did a couple of ambush runs with my pal. On a smaller map our times were within a second of each other. On a larger map, he actually beat me by almost a minute. I was very impressed- He did a much better job keeping runners locked down which made him more efficient than me on the larger map. I must say that I apologize for doubting the abilities of the Plant Dominator.
I'm curious to see the impact that the ridiculous amount of confusion has on rewards earned, since quite a lot of his confused enemies seemed to be defeating each other. We were going to do a single target test also, but it started to get late, and I need to go get some food and get ready for the hockey game. I apologize again to everyone (characters that actually exist) who I doubted though. |
You're just in soooo much denial right now. And you also got proven wrong ontop of that. Hooray! All of my effort was proven fruitful, once again! First I was right about Beast Mastery, now that Dominators make your build reveal it's NOT the One Build To Rule Them All!
And you're STILL a prat and a screwdriver!
My Dominator can also do +4x8 DA, but I guess being +3 Helps with that. Still, it's fun! More people should 'farm' DA.
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Thanks THB. On point, I've been testing the reward/kill ratio lately with my plant/psi dom and while it flies in the face of what I understand about confuse actually increasing xp over time, i've found that the seeds tends to actually lower rewards somewhat compared to other similarly fast farmers such as my ss/fire (in farms at least). |
Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy
I owe some more apologies to some people who have Plant/Psi Dominators that actually exist. Little_Whorn comes to mind: So, I sincerely apologize. I just did a couple of ambush runs with my pal. On a smaller map our times were within a second of each other. On a larger map, he actually beat me by almost a minute. I was very impressed- He did a much better job keeping runners locked down which made him more efficient than me on the larger map. I must say that I apologize for doubting the abilities of the Plant Dominator.
I'm curious to see the impact that the ridiculous amount of confusion has on rewards earned, since quite a lot of his confused enemies seemed to be defeating each other. We were going to do a single target test also, but it started to get late, and I need to go get some food and get ready for the hockey game. I apologize again to everyone (characters that actually exist) who I doubted though. |
In my experience, plant doms can use seeds to increase kill speed up to elite levels, but it's not without a price. Sometimes, against other elite damage dealers, my plant dom sacrifices some rewards to match their speed. In other words, the plant dom can exceed most other farmers enough in terms of kill speed to make up for the lost rewards. But where she can't (i.e. up against another elite farmer), it becomes harder and harder to draw even. All of which matches what I understand from Local_Man's confusion analysis. In order for confuse to result in even or more rewards, the confusing must increase kill speed by some impossible to measure amount. But in racing the absolute fastest farmers, it's still very difficult for my tricked out plant/dom to exceed the speed of these farmers enough to make up for the high xp.
Of course, this comes with caveats. Plant doms, when built well, aren't really slowed down by any spawns. So whereas a ss/fire or some other farmer slows down against longbow or vanguard or something, my plant/psi dom keeps trucking along. Usually the difference is more than enough to account for the lost rewards. Secondly, seeds can be somewhat unpredictable. Go up against enemies with high dps but low burst and the lost xp isn't a problem. But go up against enemies with high aoe burst damage and they can sometimes take out too many of their allies for me to do enough damage to keep the reward ratio up.
Of course, the vast majority of in-game currency is earned from recipe drops, a-merits, and other rewards that aren't lowered by confuse. So the lowered reward ratio is only really somewhat a factor in pure powerleveling or AE farming. And the difference is not as much as you'd think.
I don't believe you, Little_Whorn. Where's your 733t thread telling everyone how uber you are and how inferior everyone else is?
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Everyone's a butt but me.|
Originally Posted by Leo_G
I don't believe you, Little_Whorn. Where's your 733t thread telling everyone how uber you are and how inferior everyone else is?
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There. Happy? ^.^
In all seriousness, THB really does have a rockin build. It's not the absolute "I-win" button he's made it out to be in his ubiquitous boasts, but that's a good thing. If it were, THB wouldn't be the one to hate. It would be the devs for failing at game balance.
This game can be funny sometimes. Sometimes I feel invincible on my plant/dom, even taking out spawns of 54 Rularuu. But then I'll come up against a Rularuu spawn that's too spread out or located on a floating, angled air craft carrier, and I'll struggle mightily. I learned a lesson in humility that day. It doesn't matter how powerful my build is, lapses in concentration and the almighty RNG always make the difference.
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All your efforts? Last I checked, I was the one who volunteered and tested my dom, you were the one with a broken screenshot. |
Originally Posted by Reppu
Trying so hard, and yet I proved mine exists.
You're just in soooo much denial right now. And you also got proven wrong ontop of that. Hooray! All of my effort was proven fruitful, once again! First I was right about Beast Mastery, now that Dominators make your build reveal it's NOT the One Build To Rule Them All! |
Result: Farming times were competitive at best but test results are limited to 2 different runs.
lolwat? 1 purple away is considered almost capped? Last I checked that was what people consider 12% from capped. Now I'm even doubting his GM soloing with no insps claim, unless it's soloing GMs with no ranged attacks.
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Competitive with what?
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Originally Posted by doomrider
All your efforts? Last I checked, I was the one who volunteered and tested my dom, you were the one with a broken screenshot.
Result: Farming times were competitive at best but test results are limited to 2 different runs. |
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...his blaster's performance during the same 2 runs.
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Originally Posted by Dz131
Competitive with what? |
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I was referring both to the old Beast Mastery thing, and my math and comprehensive break-downs.|
Originally Posted by doomrider
All your efforts? Last I checked, I was the one who volunteered and tested my dom, you were the one with a broken screenshot.
Result: Farming times were competitive at best but test results are limited to 2 different runs. |
Sorry, but you, and I, only provided halves. Halves which are wholes, now. You can learn just as much from numbers, graphs, and charts, that you can also learn from in-game.
That's how it goes. I knew I was right, you just bothered to execute it as a whole.
And really, don't be conceited. The screenshot wasn't broken, I simply cropped it and didn't realize Screwdriver would get anal that it cut off my IO's. I didn't even consider that aspect until he threw it in my face.
TL;DR I'm willing to play my Dom whenever I feel like it. I'm not racing him because the math is there. You proved it in execution. Thusly, I'm right, thanks to you.
Yay. I love how numbers always triumph.
Always.
Though i respect your ability to not flip out THB ( i think i would have by now)at the constant opposition i also think you are extremely egocentric and need admit defeat, you remind me of Bill Oreilly you know you are wrong but you keep trying to shove your ideas down our throat ,sure enough your blaster is good, but cmon man give it up, youve been beat.
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Regards, Four-Cee-Three
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What exactly have I been beat by? The fact that Dominators are able to be more competitive with me than I expected? Neither side has proved to be superior or inferior. Being beat means that another build is just as good. That's fine. I apologized for doubting the capabilities of the Dom sets mentioned. Just because a Plant/Psi Dominator is very impressive doesn't make my Blaster any less impressive. Yes, I made a poor assumption. Yes, I apologized for it. That doesn't take away from anything I've accomplished. |
Originally Posted by 4c3Player
Though i respect your ability to not flip out THB ( i think i would have by now)at the constant opposition i also think you are extremely egocentric and need admit defeat, you remind me of Bill Oreilly you know you are wrong but you keep trying to shove your ideas down our throat ,sure enough your blaster is good, but cmon man give it up, youve been beat.
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Reppu, you have proven nothing. I never got into a debate with you about Beast Mastery. I posted in a thread you started when the set was still in Beta, where you were trashing Warshade powers while demonstrating a complete lack of understanding when it came to how Warshade powers work. I don't care about Furryminds. I never cared about Furryminds.
You have also proven nothing in this thread. If anything, all that has been confirmed is that you and I were BOTH wrong about the Dominator's AOE competitiveness. You actually agreed with me that a Plant Dom probably couldn't keep up with my farming speeds. Doomrider has proven us both wrong.
Dz, if you seriously aren't aware of the benefits of building 32.5% defense to all positions, layered with good resistance to the three most common types, you do not deserve to be having this conversation.
Look at those choice insults to players who play a specific power set. You certainly aren't trolling or insulting people, nope.
What a hypocrite. Excuse me while I post this thread on Reddit.
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lol|
Originally Posted by Reppu
Reddit.
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Also, weren't you the one that was saying it was a bad set? I just said that I don't care about it. I don't even know if it's bad or not.
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Originally Posted by Little_Whorn
Thanks THB. On point, I've been testing the reward/kill ratio lately with my plant/psi dom and while it flies in the face of what I understand about confuse actually increasing xp over time, i've found that the seeds tends to actually lower rewards somewhat compared to other similarly fast farmers such as my ss/fire (in farms at least).
In my experience, plant doms can use seeds to increase kill speed up to elite levels, but it's not without a price. Sometimes, against other elite damage dealers, my plant dom sacrifices some rewards to match their speed. In other words, the plant dom can exceed most other farmers enough in terms of kill speed to make up for the lost rewards. But where she can't (i.e. up against another elite farmer), it becomes harder and harder to draw even. All of which matches what I understand from Local_Man's confusion analysis. In order for confuse to result in even or more rewards, the confusing must increase kill speed by some impossible to measure amount. But in racing the absolute fastest farmers, it's still very difficult for my tricked out plant/dom to exceed the speed of these farmers enough to make up for the high xp. Of course, this comes with caveats. Plant doms, when built well, aren't really slowed down by any spawns. So whereas a ss/fire or some other farmer slows down against longbow or vanguard or something, my plant/psi dom keeps trucking along. Usually the difference is more than enough to account for the lost rewards. Secondly, seeds can be somewhat unpredictable. Go up against enemies with high dps but low burst and the lost xp isn't a problem. But go up against enemies with high aoe burst damage and they can sometimes take out too many of their allies for me to do enough damage to keep the reward ratio up. Of course, the vast majority of in-game currency is earned from recipe drops, a-merits, and other rewards that aren't lowered by confuse. So the lowered reward ratio is only really somewhat a factor in pure powerleveling or AE farming. And the difference is not as much as you'd think. |
That all seems reasonable, so really what your testing seems to indicate is that although the kill speeds of the Dominator will be competitive, the rewards earned during farming will not be as high (against high end sets?) We didn't test reward rates, I actually went in with hardcapped tickets to every run so I had no reasonable way of measuring rewards earned over time for both of our characters.
Not sure I understand your point about slowing down. I don't have a regular PVE build for my SS/Fire Brute anymore, but used to have a s/l softcapped one. I always found that offense was my best defense, I think I somehow managed to foot stomp even more frantically against more challenging enemies.
And another good point about the reward curve for confuse not really being a big deal when it comes to most rewards- Though AE farming is still probably a very good way to make cash, both through charging for farms and standard ticket rolling.
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Well how competitive is that against the top farmers like SS/fire?
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Originally Posted by doomrider
...his blaster's performance during the same 2 runs.
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Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy
Dz, if you seriously aren't aware of the benefits of building 32.5% defense to all positions, layered with good resistance to the three most common types, you do not deserve to be having this conversation.
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I build all mine softcap to s/l with as much nrg as possible and epic armor. But by that build logic I guess I'm nearly capped as well with 3% off from melee cap and only 1.5 purple away from nrg and ranged cap
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Well lets assume for a minute that THB's blaster, is in fact on par or better than the farming speed of an SS/fire like he's made claim to in numerous other threads.|
Originally Posted by Dz131
Well how competitive is that against the top farmers like SS/fire?
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Then both builds (plant/psi & arch/mm) being about on par with each other for farm speed potential are now easily competitive with ss/fire for farm kill speed. I say kill speed, because the plant/psi's point of comparison arises from the fact that much of its "kill" speed is leveraged by confuse and therefore has differing reward returns.
If I had a similarly high end ss/fire I would be able to actually test how it favors vs arch/mm vs plant/psi.
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having only 2 damage types softcapped and 3% off of one position is, albeit decent for a good chunk of the content in this game, you'll be ripped apart by more exotic dmg types while having to use twice the inspiration use to get you softcapped to only 1 other type and 1 position. 32.5 to all positions is capable on many builds and is more inspiration efficient to hit the softcap to all incoming damage outside of those annoying psionic specific attacks that don't have a ranged component.
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Originally Posted by Dz131
I build all mine softcap to s/l with as much nrg as possible and epic armor. But by that build logic I guess I'm nearly capped as well with 3% off from melee cap and only 1.5 purple away from nrg and ranged cap
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I get what you're saying. I built my /mm with farming in mind is why I went s/l
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Originally Posted by doomrider
having only 2 damage types softcapped and 3% off of one position is, albeit decent for a good chunk of the content in this game, you'll be ripped apart by more exotic dmg types while having to use twice the inspiration use to get you softcapped to only 1 other type and 1 position. 32.5 to all positions is capable on many builds and is more inspiration efficient to hit the softcap to all incoming damage outside of those annoying psionic specific attacks that don't have a ranged component.
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PS if we were really talking abut power gaming, we need to allow EBs too. Untie my hands.