"One build to rule them all."

Yep, this is accurate for clearing a whole cave.

As referenced in this post:

http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showp...0&postcount=46

First of all, kudos to Cag. His Brute gave a great performance.

On Saturday we're going to do 1-50 PL time comparisons. As I was explaining to him in game it's not surprising that he was able to clear a cave much faster than me- Brutes have a taunt aura and auto-taunt in their attacks. For me as a Blaster, chasing down runners is a much bigger detriment since I have many, many more to worry about. About half my time (if not more) was spent chasing down runners and using single target attacks.

When I actually power level I fight only large waves of enemies. If I don't have enough targets to cap all my AOE's I simply move to the next spawn.

Now, Cag is welcome to use his whole clave clearing method, and that's fine with me. However, by me playing on his terms the results are heavily weighted in his favor due to the mechanics of our chosen archetypes.

I second this.

Indeed, I understand your perspective and I'm just asking that you understand mine. While you have proven to be much faster at clearing a cave- Not disputing that- Clearing a cave is not an accurate measurement for comparing PLing speeds with such drastically different builds being used.

And New Dawn- Yeah that is indeed the correct ID. That would be awesome if you felt like recreating a Fire version, but it'd be up to Cag if he wanted it or not. If he thinks clearing a whole cave is the best and fastest farming method for him, he wouldn't need to do anything different. It's just not the best or fastest farming method for me.

That's... fairly awful, for all the gloating. Even with his excuse of "I had runner issues", which cements that he has a massive farming weakness that Brutes (And Dominators, due to submission powers) don't have. All things said, I'm glad there was further testing involved to prove these claims.

1 hour and 52 minutes is terribly slow. I've had lazy farmers who are mostly there to crack jokes while killing spawns beat that. No idea what Screwdriver was doing wrong, aside from lying through his teeth about 1-50 in 2 hours (Proven now this was a lie), but wow. That's terrible for a single cave.

Never the less, I'd like to bring that to attention; a bold faced lie in one of his major claims. Since him and plainguy seem to think I'm a liar and like to attack it like a Mega Atheist toward God, this is just a 'true lie'. Me? Never claimed a single thing. This? Proof Screwdriver is fibbing.

What else is he lying about, I wonder, in his list? Probably a lot of it, or at the very least, any suggestion that he can do ANY of it in any reasonable timeframe is right out the window.

But we knew this already from his GM soloing video.

All in all, good job, Cag. That's an impressive time for a Cave run.

Screwdriver, that's pretty bad. Even if you get the Taunt Aura from Melee, you can't rely on it to boost your speed in any significant margin, due to it's radius and upkeep. Especially when your original claim was so bolsterous, I am forced to point this out.

Could I beat 1 hour and 56 minutes on my Scrapper or Dominator? Probably. I might do a run and see where I fall in, but this isn't my field of expertise, nor do I care to turn this into a further competition debauchery.

The fact is, you've been exposed on one count of your original listing as a blatant liar. This brings your entire list into question of not just legitimacy, but practicality.

Shame on you. The only excuse I can see if this isn't your choice of farming map. If so, what is? You need to start supporting your claims now, more than ever. Instead of attacking other people asking for proof.

Proof, Screwdriver.

I've always felt like multiple half-caves keeping the density per time higher would be more beneficial than whole caves. But I'm pretty sure I said that earlier as well.

Cag gets bored farming so finding out a better farming method is a win/win. This will also allow you "your terms" and an undeniable conclusion, a definite conclusion about what can be expected/hoped for with Blasters.

Whilst I have never tested it, I am inclined to agree. with 511104 there are a matter of two to three major points where its just enemy density, improving XP over time. But the fact of the matter is XP over time with your suggestion would included restarting the mission, I must test.

I do realize that you've been on the end of accusations lately which I didn't feel was fair and feel like dishing back but despite whats happened so far there is some comeback room left for THB. You can have a toon do everything but if ya farming for takes twice as long it's hardly worth saying "yep farmer too".

He has comeback room. I'm asking if this is his preferred farm. That was left open purposefully, because he made the claim he can 1-50 a toon in 2 hours, which is a feat many can't claim at all, let alone a Blaster Farmer.

Thus, I want to know his map, what situation is his 'advantage'.

I'm not here to disprove him unless it can be disproved, thus he does need some proof to back up; What is his map. Where is the proof of a 1-50 in 2 hours, which is a claim people are still demanding but he refuses to back up. All we've heard is "Yeah he's fast", but so is a lemur compared to a turtle.

You were probably lagging him up with your useless vanity pets and dumb auras. U dum, Cag

ND already posted the correct ID and I confirmed. To be fair I've clarified several times- You can recheck yourself. The claim I made was not to a science. I never hands down said "2 hours to the dot."

The method used for the map I use is to get to the heart of it upon zoning in, clear the bunched patrols and move on to the next bunch as soon as they've scattered/thinned past the point of max AOE saturation. This means I can completely bypass the disadvantage I suffered from on the full cave clear- Chasing down runners not only slows down my time in a "time spent using ST attacks" way. It also slows me down because whenever I'm not killing max targets at all times, my inspiration drops are suffering. This means going in with less +dmg and getting slower every single group.

I'm not making excuses, I'm just offering explanations. Cag's Brute is awesome. I really was impressed, and have no intention of saying anything against him. He's proven himself to be an honest and nice person. I don't think that he intentionally weighted anything in his favor, it was just the natural inclination of the experiment being performed with the method used.

For someone who has such a great understanding of the numbers behind the game, you're sure playing dumb here. Blasters do not have any means of keeping enemies taunted. In a cave farm, this means that everything will constantly scatter outside my AOE radius after taking one application of ROA. It also means that a lot of the time, they won't even come back to me. If the mechanics are against my leveraging AOE's, obviously I'm not going to perform well. That's why full cave clearing is not a good method to use for a farming Blaster. It has nothing to do with me or my performance, it's pure game mechanics. I was still a good sport and I finished it, so I'm not really sure what you're getting at.

It's still a cave, but I don't clear the whole thing. Read a couple posts up for my method.

You have Electrifying Fences, which is the same method Brutes use to keep things within range if they go with Mu, since even a Taunt Aura is not going to keep everything in range (And it doesn't, you're going to have runners from time to time.)

I am well aware that you have one of the best tools for farming to keep things locked down and to avoid runners, just it does not always work, I agree. Brutes have Taunt and Fences if they went Mu, and many do for this method of lockdown.

Do not say I'm playing dumb when your method of control and execution is left plain and bare. Unless you actually do not use Fences to avoid a spread. But...

3. I have E-Fences to lock down spawns which is a reliable way to keep enemies from scattering too much. Once i23 comes out and I have Hybrid's taunt aura, I expect that I will become even more efficient.

That.

So, this is either user-error, or just unfortunate circumstance. Regardless, it is there. And I know how good E-Fences are. I swear by them when able.

But, that is then, this is now. You had a method to prevent runners, it just didn't work as effectively as you'd like.

Melee MIGHT help you in a later date for this specific farm, but eh. Who knows?

He was also using Lore pets to keep things herded- I have Storm Elementals so the KB means that method wouldn't work for me. It's worth mentioning that not only do Brutes get a taunt aura, they also have a version of the tank inherent providing a taunt with every attack used. And yes, Fences help, but they definitely don't always work. You should've seen the bosses and LT's just run through them.

Yes fences do help but when you're at the aggro cap they're not going to do a 100% job (or even close to it.) With the way I prefer to farm though, they do plenty good enough.... But in a circumstance that requires defeat-all farming they are not sufficient by themselves.

Again, user error or just unfortunate circumstance, but yes. That does hurt that claim a bit. But, field testing, etc etc.

I'm not disputing anything. I'm just explaining myself. This is actually the first civil conversation Reppu and I have had about anything. Chillax yo.

LT's were resisting it, or I was just missing them a lot. Even if the Brute provoke mechanism doesn't work in patron attacks, there's still FS being cycled every 5-6s.

And I'm really not trying to make excuses, so I'm sorry if it's coming across that way. I had honestly never even tried to clear a full cave before because it just didn't seem efficient to me. Even on my SS/Fire I wouldn't farm that way.

And again: Fences do a wonderful job to lock down runners when I'm not overly worried about killing every single enemy. It's only at this extreme of clear-all where a Brute's extra methods of aggro control really start to make a big impact.