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The free player experience is akin to CoH pre Issue 9 imo - which means no IOs and no side switching. The free player is still getting a completely workable game; one in which most of us paid hundreds of dollars through sub fees over time to access up to Issue 9. I am sorry your financial situation does not allow you to be VIP, but I am glad Paragon has given you the ability to play for free to a certain degree...and who knows if/when your situation improves at least now you will know what to spend your money on to further your enjoyment of the game.
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Originally Posted by The Turnbow
Also, free players can't just hop to redside or blueside. Thus Patron Power Pools are not equal for blue and red. If I want a hero, (being a freebie) I can't use Patron Powers.
And before anyone starts bellyaching "Then go VIP", I reply, since the money tree is obviously growing in your yard, why don't you buy everyone a VIP membership? I'm doing good to have internet service so that I can pay bills online. If I had to pay for CoH, I wouldn't play; though I have bought a few items from Paragon Market. There's a difference in buying what I want and paying for junk I'll never use. Going Rogue costs more than everything I've bought thus far. I haven't bought it simply because there are other things I want more that cost less. But, as for the necessity of Alignment Missions... I've run more than a dozen of them. I get nothing from them but enjoyment and experience, but then, enjoyment and experience are why I play the game! IF I could switch from redside to blueside and vice versa, I would have no problem with running the missions necessary to do so. |
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Originally Posted by Paladiamors
I love you, I Burnt the Toast!
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Originally Posted by I Burnt The Toast
I am actually not asking for PPP to be made available blueside...I am simply asking that Hero Defenders/Corruptors have an equal choice in that they are given a Def based shield in the APP ( I don't care if it's even Ice - which is horrendous looking imo). |
Which is perfectly fine with me and i have no arguments against that. In fact I almost always agree with suggestions to expand the available APP's.
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Originally Posted by Rylas
I've never been one for the idea of holding down others to create a sense of equality. It seems more appropriate to fight to change those things you listed rather than ask someone else deal with inconveniences so they can feel the unfairness you feel.
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But to reiterate my response to Toast, Expansing the available APP's is a great thing to push for. Getting some kind of Hero/NPC Patrons is something I can support. Simply making PPP's available to Heroes is flat out wrong.
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I understand where you're coming from. I think for the sake of a suggestion that has a chance, the best option would just be creating story arcs for the hero side to open up PPPs. Ideally, no one would have to do arcs to open them, but at least this makes it evenly accessible to all without requiring creating new powers. |
Originally Posted by DMystic
Every chance I get, I make points and suggestions towards fixing those imbalances in the apropriate topics. It's not so much holding down others to create equality as it is Why the hell do you want to tip the scales even more?
But to reiterate my response to Toast, Expansing the available APP's is a great thing to push for. Getting some kind of Hero/NPC Patrons is something I can support. Simply making PPP's available to Heroes is flat out wrong. |
In short: Making Four short story arcs is less work than creating and balancing new APPs.
@Rylas
Kill 'em all. Let XP sort 'em out.
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There being more players blueside is not an unfairness to redside. At least not a game play one. That's a matter of people's preferences.
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Originally Posted by DMystic
First off leveling is harder Villain side there are way more people playing Heroside. Less people means less teams. Less teams works out to less experience.
Secondly a significant portion of the Villain side content is mechanically harder than blueside across comparable levels. Thirdly Blueside has more content options available across levels than redside. This is reflected in zones and Task forces (discounting non story hazard zones,co-op zones and Ouro TF/SF) Fourth there is huge Reward merit imbalance between the two sides since blueside gets more reward merits for comparable amounts of time. because of the player bases general bias towards Blue side, the Blue side already has significant advantages over the redside. So don't give me any of the unfair/uneven nonsense because it is extremely disingenuous to do so. |
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
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Very True.|
Originally Posted by I Burnt The Toast
The free player experience is akin to CoH pre Issue 9 imo - which means no IOs and no side switching. The free player is still getting a completely workable game; one in which most of us paid hundreds of dollars through sub fees over time to access up to Issue 9. I am sorry your financial situation does not allow you to be VIP, but I am glad Paragon has given you the ability to play for free to a certain degree...and who knows if/when your situation improves at least now you will know what to spend your money on to further your enjoyment of the game.
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I did not mean my comment to imply that I resent being a freebie. I only resent those individuals who resent me being a freebie!
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True enough and I do mention Playerbase Bias, however that is only 1 of the points. the other 3 are very real and very significant imbalances.|
Originally Posted by BrandX
There being more players blueside is not an unfairness to redside. At least not a game play one. That's a matter of people's preferences.
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As to why people prefer blueside there are many reasons one of the most common ones is that they want to play a hero. Which is fine, go be a hero and do those heroic deeds.
Another common one is that people don't like/are sick of how the zones look.
I've heard many people complain about the lack of SFs. Heck I myself rant every time the WST is announced and we get Ice Mistral x2.Some people have complained about the lack of rewards though AMerits has largely reduced this.
These complaints are fixable but the Devs don't seem to have a response for them. The only comment remotely addressing red side problems is the one about Heroside having more players so more focus is going to go there. Which makes good business sense but is also a horrible Catch 22.
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Originally Posted by The Turnbow
Very True.
I did not mean my comment to imply that I resent being a freebie. I only resent those individuals who resent me being a freebie! |
So question, obviously you can't switch your character to Red for the Patrons, but have you considered creating a character on the Redside? Since all the AT's are available to either side it seems like a good way to get the Defender with a Defense shield you want.
Or are there specific reasons you don't want to play redside?
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I already suggested that they make this a paragon market purchase accountwide unlock. Being a PM item, it might get done faster. It still leaves open the "free" option of side switching to achieve the same goal.
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Originally Posted by QuarriosSoul
An SG friend of mine asked me to post this suggestion for her, but it's one I can agree with.
All archetypes have access to Ancilliary power pools at 35 now, no matter what side they are on, and yet the ability to unlock the Patron pools is still mostly a villain thing, whether you start out there or want to switch over temporarily to get the powers for your hero. I've never run the Statesman Task Force yet, but since you end up having to fight all the patrons and Lord Recluse during the course of the TF, wouldn't it make sense to maybe let bluesiders get access to Patron abilities by completing it? It still means that we have to work for it, much like the various Patron arcs we already have redside (which you only need to run one of to get access to all of them), but it also means that a player can choose whether or not to "go dark" in order to get them, just in case if it matters to the concept player that their hero stays as one. |
H: Blaster 50, Defender 50, Tank 50, Scrapper 50, Controller 50, PB 50, WS 50
V: Brute 50, Corruptor 50, MM 50, Dominator 50, Stalker 50, AW 50, AS 50
Top 4: Controller, Brute, Scrapper, Corruptor
Bottom 4: (Peacebringer) way below everything else, Mastermind, Dominator, Blaster
CoH in WQHD
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Having played redside and gotten multiple villains to 50 (more heroes I admit), I still don't get behind the more rewards blue side.|
Originally Posted by DMystic
True enough and I do mention Playerbase Bias, however that is only 1 of the points. the other 3 are very real and very significant imbalances.
As to why people prefer blueside there are many reasons one of the most common ones is that they want to play a hero. Which is fine, go be a hero and do those heroic deeds. Another common one is that people don't like/are sick of how the zones look. I've heard many people complain about the lack of SFs. Heck I myself rant every time the WST is announced and we get Ice Mistral x2.Some people have complained about the lack of rewards though AMerits has largely reduced this. These complaints are fixable but the Devs don't seem to have a response for them. The only comment remotely addressing red side problems is the one about Heroside having more players so more focus is going to go there. Which makes good business sense but is also a horrible Catch 22. |
Sorry. If you're just running TFs (and believe me, I have nothing against that) and it's just about the merits, run em, get em done, wait...repeat. So blueside has more and some with bigger rewards.
Untill rather recently, Doc Q's bigger reward was due to most people taking over 5hours to complete it.
It's also something I find that is just full time redsiders way to complain about something. Truth is, I doubt redside would be as popular as blue side even if the merit rewards and SF matched up perfectly.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
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I still wouldn't play redside even if that were the case |
Originally Posted by BrandX
Having played redside and gotten multiple villains to 50 (more heroes I admit), I still don't get behind the more rewards blue side.
Sorry. If you're just running TFs (and believe me, I have nothing against that) and it's just about the merits, run em, get em done, wait...repeat. So blueside has more and some with bigger rewards. Untill rather recently, Doc Q's bigger reward was due to most people taking over 5hours to complete it. It's also something I find that is just full time redsiders way to complain about something. Truth is, I doubt redside would be as popular as blue side even if the merit rewards and SF matched up perfectly. |
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Originally Posted by Paladiamors
I love you, I Burnt the Toast!
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I figure that's the case with most people. Everything could be 100% equal, and redside would still have the lower population, and doubtful that many would all of a sudden take up redside if it was made equal.|
Originally Posted by I Burnt The Toast
I still wouldn't play redside even if that were the case
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People just don't like redside. Maybe it's they prefere to be the hero? Maybe it's because blueside you will feel like you win. Maybe it's redside having you fight mostly other villains? Maybe it's because you feel like a lackey for the longest time.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
It could be any of those reasons, or all of them. I don't think there is any definite reason other than some people just want to be the hero.
For reference I do play both sides, though I haven't made a new villain in awhile. But I've always had more Villains than Heroes.
I don't doubt if everything were equal Redside would still have a lower population, but I do think if things were more equal Redside would be less abandoned.
/Signed. I like the Patron Powers, but I absolutely hate the tip missions and really hate Redside. I don't give a crap about XP, or even necessarily population, I just hate being a villain, really hate the tip missions for becoming a villain (good god, vigs are worse than villains), and hate that villains get something better for free that heroes have to spend more than a week getting... by becoming villains. It's fundamentally flawed, and needs to be fixed.
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Lots of things are fundamentally flawed, I've mentioned a few earlier that should probably be given consideration above Villain PPP's for Heroes.|
Originally Posted by Grendar
/Signed. I like the Patron Powers, but I absolutely hate the tip missions and really hate Redside. I don't give a crap about XP, or even necessarily population, I just hate being a villain, really hate the tip missions for becoming a villain (good god, vigs are worse than villains), and hate that villains get something better for free that heroes have to spend more than a week getting... by becoming villains. It's fundamentally flawed, and needs to be fixed.
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Also the PPP's are far from free.
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Villains dont get it "free" they have to do the story arc just like the heroes. Changing alignments, working your way to redside, doesn't cost you anything.|
Originally Posted by Grendar
/Signed. I like the Patron Powers, but I absolutely hate the tip missions and really hate Redside. I don't give a crap about XP, or even necessarily population, I just hate being a villain, really hate the tip missions for becoming a villain (good god, vigs are worse than villains), and hate that villains get something better for free that heroes have to spend more than a week getting... by becoming villains. It's fundamentally flawed, and needs to be fixed.
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The lose of access to a SG base for a few days is not a cost.
The patron pools are a REWARD for doing one of four arcs, and tied to the storyline. Keep it that way. I'm not saying people have to RP being patroned to an Arachnos LT. But making it so it can be purchased is just as bad as making it so you can start a VEAT as a hero at level 1.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
This might seem silly to some, I Pretend the character that wants the patron pool is going under deep cover to get close to the patron to steal their powers/techniques/technologies and then once i'm good and close I attack Lord Recluse himself!( if you are 45) you get a whole slew of badges for doing all this plus while you're there you can get the efficiency expert badge ( not sure if there is a blue side equivalent).
The only part i do not like would be the Vigilante to villain tips wow some are SO mean! But once your on red.. some of the missions are great!
In fact just recently my Main, a robotics MM stole Black Scorpions armor tech and spanked Recluse before she returned home. I had a lot of fun even made a " evil" costume while i was on red side.
When it was all said and done it left me with a feeling of accomplishment! and yes this is my third character to side switch.
Create a Kinetic Mastery with Kinetic Shield. Give it to all squishies.
Create a Phantom Mastery with Gloom and Shadow Meld. Give it to all melees.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
A recent thought. If one is looking for a S/L Defense shield, there is a dayjob that grants it.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
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Yes to Kin Mastery... A simple +def aura shield would be nice |
Originally Posted by EvilGeko
Create a Kinetic Mastery with Kinetic Shield. Give it to all squishies.
Create a Phantom Mastery with Gloom and Shadow Meld. Give it to all melees. |
(wouldn't min a Repel fx for the shield at all)
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Originally Posted by Paladiamors
I love you, I Burnt the Toast!
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As well as a temp power, but I think most folks are looking for a more permanent solution. I really wish they would create an Ice APP for Defenders/Corruptors. Not even so much for the shield, but I have a Defender that's Ice/Ice and I want to keep with the theme. She has Scorpion shield so that would be a wash.
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Originally Posted by BrandX
A recent thought. If one is looking for a S/L Defense shield, there is a dayjob that grants it.
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The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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I agree. I want to see those elemental epics made, so one can have those Fire/Thermal/Fire Corrs, and Ice/Cold/Ice Corrs and defender variants.|
Originally Posted by EvilGeko
As well as a temp power, but I think most folks are looking for a more permanent solution. I really wish they would create an Ice APP for Defenders/Corruptors. Not even so much for the shield, but I have a Defender that's Ice/Ice and I want to keep with the theme. She has Scorpion shield so that would be a wash.
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But for those who hate going redside to get the patron powers, there is an option to get a S/L Defense shield (I used it on my DB/WP as a way to minimize defense debuffs when I wasnt trying silly things, like no temp powers/inspiration use) without going redside.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
First off leveling is harder Villain side there are way more people playing Heroside. Less people means less teams. Less teams works out to less experience.
Secondly a significant portion of the Villain side content is mechanically harder than blueside across comparable levels.
Thirdly Blueside has more content options available across levels than redside. This is reflected in zones and Task forces (discounting non story hazard zones,co-op zones and Ouro TF/SF)
Fourth there is huge Reward merit imbalance between the two sides since blueside gets more reward merits for comparable amounts of time.
because of the player bases general bias towards Blue side, the Blue side already has significant advantages over the redside. So don't give me any of the unfair/uneven nonsense because it is extremely disingenuous to do so.
I have never liked redside. I was in CoV beta and didn't like it then...I tried it a few times since then and am still "bleh" about it. It actually has nothing to do with the content and more so with the environment.
I am actually not asking for PPP to be made available blueside...I am simply asking that Hero Defenders/Corruptors have an equal choice in that they are given a Def based shield in the APP ( I don't care if it's even Ice - which is horrendous looking imo).