Hell, just give my Defenders/Corruptors an APP with a +defense shield and I'd be happy..
Not that I'm against the idea though, that would cool too.
Adding in APPs isn't unheard of, didn't they add a Fire one to Scrappers? Could have sworn that wasn't there when APPs were introduced.
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Are the shark attacks and tornado really all that powerful? I'm afraid I wasn't aware.|
Originally Posted by BrandX
It's a suggetion being asked for, so people can min/max their options without having to take some time to do some tip missions.
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In any case, if it *is* a min/max option and there's no equivalent APP option then what we really keep coming back to is villains and heroes having unequal access to it.
Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound
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And you're maintaining your alignment merits, too, right? You don't lose those when you switch or anything.
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Originally Posted by BrandX
Since all you're doing is content, and you can set it up to get changed over in alignment before lvl 35, do the arc, unlock it, and then go back to blueside.
It is equal. It is easy. You haven't lost anything as you're getting xp and drops just as you were with blueside content. |
Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound
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Spend em before you switch, or go vigilante and collect reward merits untill you go full hero.|
Originally Posted by Tenzhi
And you're maintaining your alignment merits, too, right? You don't lose those when you switch or anything.
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You've lost nothing.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
Quote:
How many have been saying "I need access to the patrons for sharks?" Really? Has it been THAT may. Looking at builds posted and in game, I see very few who go "Oh! Yes! Went this pool just for the Sharks."|
Originally Posted by Tenzhi
Are the shark attacks and tornado really all that powerful? I'm afraid I wasn't aware.
In any case, if it *is* a min/max option and there's no equivalent APP option then what we really keep coming back to is villains and heroes having unequal access to it. |
Im not saying it doesnt happen, hell, I did it for my Corr, and with Water Blast coming, maaaaybe people will want it for concept (doubt full imo as people will also want the S/L Defense shield).
Also, wasn't Sharks good in PvP?
And I say the access is equal. The fact that redsiders dont have to go through tips to get to it and then back, is not this big uneven thing anyone makes it out to be.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
Quote:
It doesn't matter if there's only just one, it still invalidates the statement that people are only asking for it to min/max.|
Originally Posted by BrandX
How many have been saying "I need access to the patrons for sharks?" Really? Has it been THAT may. Looking at builds posted and in game, I see very few who go "Oh! Yes! Went this pool just for the Sharks."
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Quote:
| And I say the access is equal. The fact that redsiders dont have to go through tips to get to it and then back, is not this big uneven thing anyone makes it out to be. |
Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound
Quote:
I could swear I said something to the effect of "the majority"|
Originally Posted by Tenzhi
It doesn't matter if there's only just one, it still invalidates the statement that people are only asking for it to min/max.
Regardless of how "big" it may or not not be viewed as, it is still objectively uneven. It's disingenuous to acknowledge the *fact* that redsiders don't have to go through a process that bluesiders do have to go through to get PPPs and claim otherwise. |
Okay, I'll give it to you. It's uneven. Yup. As uneven as 49% versus 51% can be!
It's not nearly a uneven as you make it out to be.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
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It's really more like 40% to 60%.|
Originally Posted by BrandX
I could swear I said something to the effect of "the majority"
Okay, I'll give it to you. It's uneven. Yup. As uneven as 49% versus 51% can be! It's not nearly a uneven as you make it out to be. |
I mean, it is a real pain in the butt to spend 4 days getting a group of pools when villains can get them in less than an hour.
It's not prohibitively annoying, but it's still a pain in the neck.
Open Archetype Suggestion thread!, Kirsten's Epic Weapon Pools, Feudal Japan, Etc., Alignment specific Rularuu iTrials!
If Masterminds didn't suck, they'd be the most powerful AT in the game.
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You mean how a dom can now have an ice shield (Def) instead of having to do the arcs..automatically?|
Originally Posted by BrandX
Notice how it keeps coming back to that bolded statement?
It's a suggetion being asked for, so people can min/max their options without having to take some time to do some tip missions. |
Who cares if it is about min/maxing...I PREFER Defense over resistance on my squishy toons. I prefer to make my toon focus on defense...you act like min/maxing is a bad thing...we all min/max to a degree just by pure power selection. The FACT is Defenders are the only Hero AT (aside from HEATS who are not privy to APP or PPP) who do not have a choice of a defense shield...without spending AT LEAST 4 days going redside and coming back. I don't even care if they just port Ice to Defenders...I just want a defense shield.
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Originally Posted by Paladiamors
I love you, I Burnt the Toast!
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Quote:
Actually. You're wrong.|
Originally Posted by I Burnt The Toast
You mean how a dom can now have an ice shield (Def) instead of having to do the arcs..automatically?
Who cares if it is about min/maxing...I PREFER Defense over resistance on my squishy toons. I prefer to make my toon focus on defense...you act like min/maxing is a bad thing...we all min/max to a degree just by pure power selection. The FACT is Defenders are the only Hero AT (aside from HEATS who are not privy to APP or PPP) who do not have a choice of a defense shield...without spending AT LEAST 4 days going redside and coming back. I don't even care if they just port Ice to Defenders...I just want a defense shield. |
Defenders are privy to a PPP with S/L Defense with a choice not to spend four days switching alignments. Also, you're wrong in that only Defenders are in that boat you think they're in.
Corruptors have the same APPs and PPPs.
Also, Defenders can always start redside.
In fact, unless you have some ancient Defender you still havent taken redside since it became an option, all your defenders have that option. Start redside, never have to switch alignment, and oh hey, look Villain Merits!
Yes you spend 4 days going over. What are you doing in that time? Gaining xp! Just like you would of been doing before. Or granding tips, like you would have been doing before o reaffirm your alignment.
As someone who has gone full circle multiple times, not once did I think "this is hard."
As for min/maxing, I think nothing is wrong with min/maxing a build, however, I don't think changes should be put into place just so you can do it easier.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
Quote:
But, they're not a pain. How iexactly are people seeing this as a pain? Go out grab tips like you would of done before, run them. I never found it any harder to get redside tips than blueside tips.
|
Originally Posted by Kirsten
It's really more like 40% to 60%.
I mean, it is a real pain in the butt to spend 4 days getting a group of pools when villains can get them in less than an hour. It's not prohibitively annoying, but it's still a pain in the neck. |
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
Quote:
Uhmm you do see where I said HERO right???|
Originally Posted by BrandX
Actually. You're wrong.
Defenders are privy to a PPP with S/L Defense with a choice not to spend four days switching alignments. Also, you're wrong in that only Defenders are in that boat you think they're in. Corruptors have the same APPs and PPPs. Also, Defenders can always start redside. In fact, unless you have some ancient Defender you still havent taken redside since it became an option, all your defenders have that option. Start redside, never have to switch alignment, and oh hey, look Villain Merits! Yes you spend 4 days going over. What are you doing in that time? Gaining xp! Just like you would of been doing before. Or granding tips, like you would have been doing before o reaffirm your alignment. As someone who has gone full circle multiple times, not once did I think "this is hard." As for min/maxing, I think nothing is wrong with min/maxing a build, however, I don't think changes should be put into place just so you can do it easier. |
I do not play Villain side - EXCEPT to get the PPP - plain and simple. I am actually working on a TA Defender atm...and taking it redside. I NEVER said it was hard....
It is inconvenient since the DEFENDER is the only HERO AT which can have APP/PPP & has NO choice of a Def shield UNLESS they go Redside.
If you are going to reply to me...please make sure you are replying to the whole gist of what I said and do not nitpick the parts that suit your argument...or put words in my mouth.
Now.. reread what I said.... ahhh there you go: HERO ..Defender... Defense shield..
What is the justification for denying defenders a Defense shield in the APP like trollers? Irregardless of alignment changes..get ready for this... Defenders are the ONLY AT which cannot get a Defense shield from their "natural" alignment. (discounting HEATS since they get none whatsoever).
I could give a rat's behind about switching to redside doing the patron arc..switching back.. I do it A LOT. I just think it's kind of crappy I have to since there is nothing offered in the way of defense shield for defenders hero side.
I didn't have to do this with my Hero Dom...because it already has a choice hero side: Ice.
I consider switching..tedious..not hard. Why?? I LOATHE redside. LOATHE. I never had a villain toon (outside of CoV beta) until Praetoria was introduced. Yet if I want that frickin Defense shield on a defender (Which I play a lot of)....here I go redside.. YAY!
I am not asking for anything to be handed out...I am asking for equality in shield sets.
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Originally Posted by Paladiamors
I love you, I Burnt the Toast!
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Quote:
The pain is this:|
Originally Posted by BrandX
But, they're not a pain. How iexactly are people seeing this as a pain? Go out grab tips like you would of done before, run them. I never found it any harder to get redside tips than blueside tips.
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All my friends play hero side
My SG is hero side
I have no interest in redside
For two days I cannot team with friends because I am a villain.
For Four days I cannot access my base because I am seen as a villain
20 missions of trying to find strangers to play with on a side which I already hate playing on.
So I consider it boring basically....and I do not sign into the game to be bored and resentful of an unequal system.
(FYI this has nothing to do with RP...I do not RP at all - I just truly have no interest in redside content.)
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Originally Posted by Paladiamors
I love you, I Burnt the Toast!
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Quote:
Corrs that start out blueside have the same issue. There really isnt HERO/VILLAIN ATs anymore. What? You think most corrs dont start out blueside anymore? |
Originally Posted by I Burnt The Toast
Uhmm you do see where I said HERO right???
I do not play Villain side - EXCEPT to get the PPP - plain and simple. I am actually working on a TA Defender atm...and taking it redside. I NEVER said it was hard.... It is inconvenient since the DEFENDER is the only HERO AT which can have APP/PPP & has NO choice of a Def shield UNLESS they go Redside. If you are going to reply to me...please make sure you are replying to the whole gist of what I said and do not nitpick the parts that suit your argument...or put words in my mouth. Now.. reread what I said.... ahhh there you go: HERO ..Defender... Defense shield.. What is the justification for denying defenders a Defense shield in the APP like trollers? Irregardless of alignment changes..get ready for this... Defenders are the ONLY AT which cannot get a Defense shield from their "natural" alignment. (discounting HEATS since they get none whatsoever). I could give a rat's behind about switching to redside doing the patron arc..switching back.. I do it A LOT. I just think it's kind of crappy I have to since there is nothing offered in the way of defense shield for defenders hero side. I didn't have to do this with my Hero Dom...because it already has a choice hero side: Ice. I consider switching..tedious..not hard. Why?? I LOATHE redside. LOATHE. I never had a villain toon (outside of CoV beta) until Praetoria was introduced. Yet if I want that frickin Defense shield on a defender (Which I play a lot of)....here I go redside.. YAY! I am not asking for anything to be handed out...I am asking for equality in shield sets. |
Oh well hey, Im all for giving Defenders a Cold Epic, and Corrs too! I think we need more elemental epics to match up with the elemental sets!
That would mean giving them the S/L Defense shield, and then you wouldnt have to go redside for it
So yes, /signed for Cold Epic for Defenders/Corrs!
Still unsigned for making it so patron epics can be handed out blueside. They're a themetic option, don't like the theme, don't take it.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Brandx
So yes, /signed for Cold Epic for Defenders/Corrs!
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Originally Posted by I Burnt The Toast
I don't even care if they just port Ice to Defenders...I just want a defense shield.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Paladiamors
I love you, I Burnt the Toast!
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Quote:
Spend 1 day as a villain...|
Originally Posted by I Burnt The Toast
The pain is this:
All my friends play hero side My SG is hero side I have no interest in redside For two days I cannot team with friends because I am a villain. For Four days I cannot access my base because I am seen as a villain 20 missions of trying to find strangers to play with on a side which I already hate playing on. So I consider it boring basically....and I do not sign into the game to be bored and resentful of an unequal system. (FYI this has nothing to do with RP...I do not RP at all - I just truly have no interest in redside content.) |
Get up to Vigilante 10 tips done.
Wait a day.
Do the morality to go villain. Run arc and 5 tips.
Next day run 5 tips and morality for rogue alignment.
During that one day of time team with your friends in co-op zones!
Three days out of your base.
Can't bother to find a team redside? Alt to a character that's blueside. You just sadi you had more than one character.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
Quote:
Im still unsigned about patrons being made available for heroes though. |
Originally Posted by I Burnt The Toast
Which is what I said before your first reply to me
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BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
Quote:
Which has never been my point.. my point was something needs to be made available that is a defense shield hero side..to make things equal |
Originally Posted by BrandX
Im still unsigned about patrons being made available for heroes though.
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(Ice is fine with me )
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Paladiamors
I love you, I Burnt the Toast!
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Quote:
Well Im for the general increase in Epics. But I don't think there's any problem with there not being a defense shield. But if Ice Epic was made, Im sure it would be a S/L Defense shield.
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Originally Posted by I Burnt The Toast
Which has never been my point.. my point was something needs to be made available that is a defense shield hero side..to make things equal
(Ice is fine with me ) |
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
Also, free players can't just hop to redside or blueside. Thus Patron Power Pools are not equal for blue and red. If I want a hero, (being a freebie) I can't use Patron Powers.
And before anyone starts bellyaching "Then go VIP", I reply, since the money tree is obviously growing in your yard, why don't you buy everyone a VIP membership? I'm doing good to have internet service so that I can pay bills online.
If I had to pay for CoH, I wouldn't play; though I have bought a few items from Paragon Market. There's a difference in buying what I want and paying for junk I'll never use. Going Rogue costs more than everything I've bought thus far. I haven't bought it simply because there are other things I want more that cost less.
But, as for the necessity of Alignment Missions... I've run more than a dozen of them. I get nothing from them but enjoyment and experience, but then, enjoyment and experience are why I play the game! IF I could switch from redside to blueside and vice versa, I would have no problem with running the missions necessary to do so.
Quote:
That's just the downside to being a freebie. You choose to limit yourself (for whatever reason) to any and all drawbacks.
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Originally Posted by The Turnbow
Also, free players can't just hop to redside or blueside. Thus Patron Power Pools are not equal for blue and red. If I want a hero, (being a freebie) I can't use Patron Powers.
And before anyone starts bellyaching "Then go VIP", I reply, since the money tree is obviously growing in your yard, why don't you buy everyone a VIP membership? I'm doing good to have internet service so that I can pay bills online. If I had to pay for CoH, I wouldn't play; though I have bought a few items from Paragon Market. There's a difference in buying what I want and paying for junk I'll never use. Going Rogue costs more than everything I've bought thus far. I haven't bought it simply because there are other things I want more that cost less. But, as for the necessity of Alignment Missions... I've run more than a dozen of them. I get nothing from them but enjoyment and experience, but then, enjoyment and experience are why I play the game! IF I could switch from redside to blueside and vice versa, I would have no problem with running the missions necessary to do so. |
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/signed.
Power pools being locked behind content never seemed like a good idea to me to begin with. I'm all for unlocking PPPs on both sides. Or, if we just HAVE to have a story arc for it, then create arcs on hero side that open the PPPs to us. Like someone mentioned before, heroes could be assigned missions to get intel on Sirroco or Ghost Widow and in the process "learn their powers."
As it stands, it's definitely an uneven playing field in regards to power options and the ease at which one can have those options. If I have 50s who I now want to respec into PPPs, then 4 days of my time (and this is if I've been vigilante about keeping the schedule) is more nuisance than fun. Especially when I've been saving up A-Merits for big purchases. Then my wait has been extended even more.
@Rylas
Kill 'em all. Let XP sort 'em out.
To everyone going on and on about how it's uneven/unfair that Villains don't have to do tips for PPP's, guess what there are other uneven/unfair things affecting Villains.
First off leveling is harder Villain side there are way more people playing Heroside. Less people means less teams. Less teams works out to less experience.
Secondly a significant portion of the Villain side content is mechanically harder than blueside across comparable levels.
Thirdly Blueside has more content options available across levels than redside. This is reflected in zones and Task forces (discounting non story hazard zones,co-op zones and Ouro TF/SF)
Fourth there is huge Reward merit imbalance between the two sides since blueside gets more reward merits for comparable amounts of time.
because of the player bases general bias towards Blue side, the Blue side already has significant advantages over the redside. So don't give me any of the unfair/uneven nonsense because it is extremely disingenuous to do so.
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I've never been one for the idea of holding down others to create a sense of equality. It seems more appropriate to fight to change those things you listed rather than ask someone else deal with inconveniences so they can feel the unfairness you feel.|
Originally Posted by DMystic
To everyone going on and on about how it's uneven/unfair that Villains don't have to do tips for PPP's, guess what there are other uneven/unfair things affecting Villains.
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But if what you say about redside is true (and I'm not suggesting it is or isn't) then why should anyone want to go through the trouble of obtaining PPPs by going there? Seems you're only reinforcing the reason people would want a better option for PPPs.
@Rylas
Kill 'em all. Let XP sort 'em out.
Personal preference - heroic versions and associated arcs.
It is equal. It is easy. You haven't lost anything as you're getting xp and drops just as you were with blueside content.
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