Sharks Fin


Blood Red Arachnid

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow View Post
I...
I've always felt that City of Heroes lacked graphics artists who "get" anthropomorphic characters, and I don't just mean Jay's not-sure-if-serious comment about hating furries. All anthropomorphic characters and pieces in the game have simply been left wanting. War Wolves are about half-way decent, but the Monster heads and feet are just "off," then the animal heads and feet are really an ill fit and the various "animal" characters in the game like Mynx and Bobcat are mostly people with animal props.
...
The old Monstrous pieces make perfect sense if one assumes that whoever made them was aiming for "B movie monster". They were added with the launch of CoV, no ?
The pieces are quite limited as a result. And instead of using them as they were meant, most people used them as "poor man's animal people" because the real thing was not available. And still isn't, beyond Heads.

They are not poorly made, they are aimed at a design approach that is similar yet different from the one people want. And I do not think devs could have predicted that at the time.

And the most common animal people in comics were covered at start with the "props" you mentioned.


Regarding shark people (shark-americans?), there is also this guy:


I do not suffer from altitis, I enjoy every character of it.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charcoal_EU View Post
The old Monstrous pieces make perfect sense if one assumes that whoever made them was aiming for "B movie monster". They were added with the launch of CoV, no ?
The pieces are quite limited as a result. And instead of using them as they were meant, most people used them as "poor man's animal people" because the real thing was not available. And still isn't, beyond Heads.
That's what I mean when I say they feel "off." The Monstrous pieces seem more designed to ape "rubber suit alien" monster flick than they are designed to depict actual animal characters. Then came the Animal Pack, which while it had a decent selection of animal parts, it went too far in the other direction. That is to say, the Animal Pack pieces are designed to create realistic-looking animals which just so happen to walk on two legs. This is never more evident than with the animal heads, which just look like a stuffed prop animal head stuck on a person's neck. I'm not saying they look bad - stuffed animals often look "more realistic" than the real thing - but I'm saying they're pure animal parts, rather than anthropomorphic parts.

Anthropomorphism, defined as the attribution of human-like characteristics to animals and inanimate objects, is something City of Heroes has always lacked, for the simple fact that we've never an artist sit down and work on the subject. It's either pure humans with a few props or pure animals that walk on two legs with nothing, really, in-between. The fact that we can't have animal heads with human hair is, I think, the most striking example. I'm not sure how many of these there are in comic books, but they were all over the kind of cartoons I grew up with, from things like the Swat Kats to the Ninja Turtles to pretty much half the stuff Disney ever made, and especially Jungle Book/Tailspin. It's not inherently horrible or niche.

For my part, I intend to keep lobbying for more of this middle ground and see what comes of it. Shark heads, I'd say, are a good starting point because you really can't make a shark head on a human body look good unless you take liberties with what a "shark head" constitutes.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow View Post
And as for the following "please don't" reaction, I've grown to pretty much expect this every time I post about anthropomorphic characters on this forum. My very first ignore was actually Tokyo trolling over just this subject.
Werewolves are my all time favorite monster. I am unsure of why it is ok to love vampires, but not werewolves. I also agree that it is yet to be done well in this game.

The pic Leo posted was amazing and just they way I would like to see something like this done. This is a costume set that I could get excited and giddy over.


Types of Swords
My Portfolio

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zyphoid View Post
The pic Leo posted was amazing and just they way I would like to see something like this done. This is a costume set that I could get excited and giddy over.
What's funny about that pic is it got ME interested in shark-themed characters. When it comes to animal characters, there are two things I can never get - fish and birds. Characters styled after them are just weird to me, if for no reason that the source animal is so far removed from my own species. Yet Leo's pic got me excited over the possibility of a DECENT shark set, and I didn't think that was possible.

That just goes to show that it's really not so much a question of thematic as it is a question of the quality and passion of a piece of art. Hell, for as much as I dislike bird characters, Kung Fu Panda 2's Shen (the peacock bad guy) actually sold me on the concept. The movie was just that good, and I'm convinced City of Heroes can be just that good, as well.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

 

Posted

What sold me on weresharks was the Rokea from the White Wolf books. The creatures inspired an almost primal fear/attraction (not in a sexual way) but in a way like people who go diving in shark cages.

Wolfe and Shark anthropomorphic creatures were really the only ones that excited me. There was a TMNT table top game by Palladium games I believe. That allowed for the playing of any creature anthropomorphic, but it was never one of the games I played.


Types of Swords
My Portfolio

 

Posted

Just to clarify, I take no credit for that shark anthro drawing. It was just a pic I came across that I liked and added it to my collection of pics that I may one day use as inspiration/reference.

But as for anthros in general, I think it all comes down to style really and what the artist is attempting to convey. Is the anthro suppose to be cute? Cool? Sexy? Scary? Realistic? Comedic? It's hard to catch everything with one depiction, although that shark man image feels like it pulls off cool (thanks to the scars), scary (because its a ****ing shark and the eyes and facial expression) and sexy (sleek frame and muscles) but that's more opinion.

With the old beast heads, I'd imagine the artist was aiming for monsterous (that's what category they're in), scary (some are) and grotesque (again, some are). I applaud those heads and they certainly work if that is what you're going for. The new heads tend to be more realistic and cute (if you're a fan of animals).

Problem though is, me personally, I don't do cute werewolves so can't use the new wolf head. The kind of wolf I'd like?



Sort of similar to the old wolf monsterous face. It looks scary (eyes, teeth, expression), cool (because its a wolf...a wolf that will eat your face by just looking at it) and sorta sexy because...well, I just like scary things that don't look maggot puke ugly and that danger adds a special sort of element to them (kinda sorta how some people would think a sleek car is sexy)...The new wolf face doesn't hit any of those points (especially not scary). The old face though? It gives me the heebee jeebees when I see my Claws/EA brute, Cerberus Wolfe's, doppleganger rush at me in tip missions...I mean, it half way makes me jump out of my chair when he just pops up behind me all big, scary and red with big white fangs ready to rip my throat out.

Sooo, back to the shark and any other animal piece, I think the artist should have a certain goal in mind when thinking up new animal pieces. Personally, it should look scary (I don't make animal characters with teeth just for them *not* to show how big, pointy and numerous their teeth are) and cool (having no nose isn't cool, that's just ugly...having a scrunched up face also isn't cool). And the main reason I think that should be the artist's point is because the faces are static...they don't move and their mouths don't open so a face of 'action' should be the aim (since you don't do much else in the game). If the artist can hit just those two points but also hit realism at the same time, that'd be a bonus.

And as for avians (birds), it's all about the plumage. Exaggerate the hell out of that plumage, almost like it's hair, and you help capture that coolness element, at least to me. I like the current bird heads but they look rather bald where ruffled up feathers would look like they're engaged in some sort of action and look cool. Also, don't skimp on the neck! OMG, give the birds necks rather than attaching their skulls to the shoulder with a layer of skin to keep it attached. Just like the cat pieces, it's not hard to get fierce down with realism...the 'wing' hands are another matter though...can't really find a pic with the right elements I'm thinking of.

...I apologize for that tangent


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow View Post
Some look like foxes, yes, but I'm working with a VERY limited pool of source material that's just that right balance of decent artwork and actual shark, as opposed to human given a toothy smile. The whole pool of reference I had consisted of about 100 pics, half of which were unprintable, with half of what's left being garbage, and half of THAT not being "sharky" enough to post. I got pretty much the only decent heads I had access to, give or take a couple.

And as for the following "please don't" reaction, I've grown to pretty much expect this every time I post about anthropomorphic characters on this forum. My very first ignore was actually Tokyo trolling over just this subject.
I like how you thought it was an anti-furry comment. If I hated furries for no reason, I wouldn't play Sonic games.

I said please don't because they look horrible. Most of those look like Barney characters with teeth.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by eth_Nargy View Post
I like how you thought it was an anti-furry comment. If I hated furries for no reason, I wouldn't play Sonic games.

I said please don't because they look horrible. Most of those look like Barney characters with teeth.
And I thought it was because, like me, you'd probably seen the full version of some of those pics


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leo_G View Post
And I thought it was because, like me, you'd probably seen the full version of some of those pics
Yeah, it's funny how much the context of a pic changes when you crop out just the head. I remember Sellephane used a demon head from a far more explicit pic without realising it. She had a laugh when she found out, though, so kudos for that.

Incidentally, where did YOU see the full versions of these pics, and may I have a link?

As for assuming it's "furry-hate?" Call me jaded. I can't make two posts on the subject around these parts without someone proclaiming me a weirdo. Then again, maybe I should relax. After all, I have most of those people on ignore these days, so it should be safe.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow View Post

Incidentally, where did YOU see the full versions of these pics, and may I have a link?
No.












(I can PM the link if you insist...)


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leo_G View Post
No.
I want you to know I'm literally laughing out loud That's OK, Leo, I can look on my own. Don't want to drag you down with me.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leo_G View Post
Just to clarify, I take no credit for that shark anthro drawing. It was just a pic I came across that I liked and added it to my collection of pics that I may one day use as inspiration/reference.

But as for anthros in general, I think it all comes down to style really and what the artist is attempting to convey. Is the anthro suppose to be cute? Cool? Sexy? Scary? Realistic? Comedic? It's hard to catch everything with one depiction, although that shark man image feels like it pulls off cool (thanks to the scars), scary (because its a ****ing shark and the eyes and facial expression) and sexy (sleek frame and muscles) but that's more opinion.

With the old beast heads, I'd imagine the artist was aiming for monsterous (that's what category they're in), scary (some are) and grotesque (again, some are). I applaud those heads and they certainly work if that is what you're going for. The new heads tend to be more realistic and cute (if you're a fan of animals).

Problem though is, me personally, I don't do cute werewolves so can't use the new wolf head. The kind of wolf I'd like?



Sort of similar to the old wolf monsterous face. It looks scary (eyes, teeth, expression), cool (because its a wolf...a wolf that will eat your face by just looking at it) and sorta sexy because...well, I just like scary things that don't look maggot puke ugly and that danger adds a special sort of element to them (kinda sorta how some people would think a sleek car is sexy)...The new wolf face doesn't hit any of those points (especially not scary). The old face though? It gives me the heebee jeebees when I see my Claws/EA brute, Cerberus Wolfe's, doppleganger rush at me in tip missions...I mean, it half way makes me jump out of my chair when he just pops up behind me all big, scary and red with big white fangs ready to rip my throat out.

Sooo, back to the shark and any other animal piece, I think the artist should have a certain goal in mind when thinking up new animal pieces. Personally, it should look scary (I don't make animal characters with teeth just for them *not* to show how big, pointy and numerous their teeth are) and cool (having no nose isn't cool, that's just ugly...having a scrunched up face also isn't cool). And the main reason I think that should be the artist's point is because the faces are static...they don't move and their mouths don't open so a face of 'action' should be the aim (since you don't do much else in the game). If the artist can hit just those two points but also hit realism at the same time, that'd be a bonus.
All of this. Werewolves should click some primal fear in the back of our brains, just like sharks. I want scary, the animal pack had Beast Run, which was enough for me to purchase it no matter what.

I like the animal fur texture also.

I have always liked Captain Mako's look. His skin always has a wet look to it, and he looks like a shark. The fin is poorly placed, perhaps now that the players have back items they will give him an update.


Types of Swords
My Portfolio

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow View Post
Sorry Sam... none of those look right at all. They all look like wolves/dogs pretending to be sharks. And, well, sharks look WRONG with hair or ears. They simply can't have hair OR ears IMO.



 

Posted


Oh look... a shark man! And it looks awesome!! Why can't we have that in-game? Heh, we do.

Don't mess with what ain't broken and give players parts similar to what we already have.



 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zyphoid View Post
I have always liked Captain Mako's look. His skin always has a wet look to it
The glossy look is very fashionable for party clothing, so I guess that makes him a party animal


@Golden Girl

City of Heroes comics and artwork

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thirty-Seven View Post

Oh look... a shark man! And it looks awesome!! Why can't we have that in-game? Heh, we do.

Don't mess with what ain't broken and give players parts similar to what we already have.
Concept art from one of the collector packs right CoV I think.

I love that look, but it would be better with a Dorsal fin on his back, and an animated shark tale.

Now if I could just get access to arms that have that killer blade coming out of the elbow.


Types of Swords
My Portfolio

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leo_G View Post
Problem though is, me personally, I don't do cute werewolves
::looks at Leo's avatar, then Leo's sig... raises brow in quizzical Spock-like fashion::


Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow View Post
There's already a "scales" texture for tops, bottoms, boots and gloves, and it's even actually glossy. Doesn't that work?
scales also gives a reptillian underbelly, that doesnt really work with fish. so far I have been using bioluminescent a lot more for my fish themed chars.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenzhi View Post
::looks at Leo's avatar, then Leo's sig... raises brow in quizzical Spock-like fashion::
john talban aint cute.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenzhi View Post
::looks at Leo's avatar, then Leo's sig... raises brow in quizzical Spock-like fashion::




Uh oh, not sure what you did there, Tenzhi, but I think you made Gallon mad


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leo_G View Post




Uh oh, not sure what you did there, Tenzhi, but I think you made Gallon mad
One of CapCom's better fighting games. Almost as good as the SF games imo. I am not sure why Talbon didn't make the roster for some of the CapCom VS games.


Types of Swords
My Portfolio

 

Posted

If we get more shark items, I'd really appreciate a a Candygram emote.


@Glass Goblin - Writer, brainstormer, storyteller, hero

Though nothing will drive them away
We can beat them, just for one day
We can be heroes, just for one day

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Omega View Post
Since there's going to be a water based powerset - could we get a sharks fin as a back detail please - sorry if this is posted in the wrong place
We don't you ask for a whole Ocean Creatures Packs, to get everything to Heads to Toe and well of course Back Details.


Never play another NcSoft game, If you feel pride for our game, then it as well, I Superratz am Proud of all of you Coh people, Love, Friendship will last for a lifetime.

Global:@Greenflame Ratz
Main Toons:Super Ratz, Burning B Radical, Green Flame Avenger, Tunnel Ratz, Alex Magnus

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow View Post
OK, after going through a few places on the 'net, I have a collection of shark heads on my own. Unlike Leo, I can't give you a full-body shot of any of these for a variety of reasons, so instead, I made a collage! Here's what I'm talking about:

Hmmmm They look more Draconic to me, They can pass as dragons.


Never play another NcSoft game, If you feel pride for our game, then it as well, I Superratz am Proud of all of you Coh people, Love, Friendship will last for a lifetime.

Global:@Greenflame Ratz
Main Toons:Super Ratz, Burning B Radical, Green Flame Avenger, Tunnel Ratz, Alex Magnus

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thirty-Seven View Post
Sorry Sam... none of those look right at all. They all look like wolves/dogs pretending to be sharks. And, well, sharks look WRONG with hair or ears. They simply can't have hair OR ears IMO.
That's exactly what I mean - sharks don't have hair or ears, but to me, that's what makes these sharks usable when the others wouldn't be. That's why I find anthropomorphic representations of animals more appealing than straight ports of photo-realistic animals. It's why I find my Feline-face-using Panda girl with a full head of human hair more compelling than by photo-realistic-bovine-head-using "cow girl." It's also why I feel shark heads can't work unless they're anthropomorphised.

You're right, a lot of those sharks look like dogs, some more than others. But that's less because someone drew them as dogs and more an artefact of what happens when you rearrange a shark head to conform to a human head layout, with eyes above the mouth and the shark snout shifted lower and positioned at an angle to the face. Sharks have heads the width of their bodies that point away from the body itself. You can't do that with a humanoid, is what I'm saying.

I don't ever expect to see anthropomorphic sharks in City of Heroes. For as much as I respect our art team, I just don't think we have the artists for it, as anthropomorphic animals take a different midnest from conventional human and human-like characters. It's been eight years and we've not had a single anthropomorphic feature done with the right balance. They're either so human they look like body art or props, or otherwise so alien they look like horror movie prosthetics or actual animal bits stuck on human bodies. Anthropomorphic characters need a particular kind of balance between the two, where they still come off looking like actual people, but are just "off" enough to be interesting.

*edit*
Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenFIame View Post
Hmmmm They look more Draconic to me, They can pass as dragons.
What they look like is crocodiles, if I have to be quite honest. Not spot on, not really, but the heads I posted do resemble crocodiles more than they do sharks. As dragons take a lot of inspiration from crocodiles in their basic design, I can actually see your point quite clearly. They do look draconic.

Again, Leo's pic is a lot better in terms of artistry and anthropomorphism. I mostly wanted to add the concept of having hair with these heads, as well as the triangle teeth which, sadly, Leo's pic lacks, going for a more canine bite, instead. I really feel that a head with a large mouth full of triangle teeth just by itself would be a good substitute for a shark head.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.