Take a concept from GW2 and modify street-sweeping

One of NCSoft's other games, Guild Wars 2 has a pretty nifty outdoor content system where the stuff going on changes every once in a while.

It's pretty nifty but ithas its own issues.


The kicker here is that the street sweeping in-game already is just close enough to workable that I think with a few tweaks you could really improve it to be "more like" gw2 without copying anything from it.

1. If you're blueside, rather than sticking a stagnant spawn in the street and having the civilians see them and run away, have them go through a routine of running up to a store, beating on the window, breaking it, fighting a couple police that show up, stealing the cop car, and then going for a joyride culminating in them "getting away." at any point in all this a player could intervene and "save the day" (pssh) but it would make the city feel a bit more alive. Doesn't even have to be on constant loop. Scrapyard's a pretty cool example of something that just starts up every once in a while and does something cool, this could be a modification of that, liek a "giant monster" event that's nowhere near giant monster status.

2. If you're a rogue, you might have the opportunity to introduce a little chaos in the zone by actually STARTING that event. telling someone to go rob the bank, while you do your own thing in the background, etc. etc.

3. Villains might encounter a couple undercover longbow agents hiding and covering the entrance to a door while their gun-runners smuggle weapons and equipment into the isle and sneak past them into the warehouse. players could take down the gun runners for temporary powers like an smg or flamethrower, or drop the two door guards and hop into the warehouse to clear out the infestation.

4. a vigilante hero might actually stop by the rogue isles and instigate that incident by meeting up with a longbow contact there.

If I spent a bit more time letting my brain wander I could come up with some more concepts, each of them just as cool. But I'll throw this out here for now.

I think CoH/V is past 'street sweeping' for interactive content. If we wanted outdoor level scaling content, that's what zone events are for and I'm all for more of those. Trying to spruce up the streets in general would be too much time for too little return because of population vs area.

I would love to see a 'riot' zone event where the random NPC spawns were breaking into stores and making off with stuff, or a 'car chase' zone event where some super vehicle was driving around super fast with guys leaning out using various mez, slow, and -fly attacks on people in attempt to get away from super heros. After a grace period of X minutes, if no heros are within Y range it despawns and 'got away'.

But I don't want to hijack this into a zone event thread if you want to keep going with improving street sweeping outside of actual zone events.

the problem with our zone events, is they are too few and far between. There should be a dozen mini zone events and instant mini missions. For example, take the side missions in mayhem/safeguard missions and put them in the city zones. Havenpc raids randomly occur. etc.

I'm all for anything that gets people out of instances and into the open.


/signed

Oh, I'd love to see some dynamic content added to the mix with street spawns and such.
I mean, I absolutely would not want to see the majority of street/zone spawns changed and/or turned gimmicky (I like them just the way they are), but I'd love to see extra, interesting content and situations occur.

I, personally, still spend a good amount of my time street sweeping. I've always thought it is an excellent aspect of this game, even if the mainstream playstyle has pretty much ditched that in favor of teaming and TFs.

Anywho...
Dynamic spawns and events such as this have long been a request. Some more involved than others: something like your idea is great and pretty non-intrusive and fits well while saving cats out of trees or making a more dynamic fire rescue are different and more involved.
I'd like to see these sorts of things added, but I've always been a fan of such stuff.

there used to be more mobs and such in the game,until someplayer showed with hard numbers that street sweeping was a better xp/inf vs risk/time. The devs responded by making the street mobs fewer and worth less. After a LOT of screaming, they added the 1/2 debt in missons as a bone for players.

Sadly that type of thinking is still in the game,Example the Devs recently wanted to change the Itrials and "Nudge" players away from BAF and LAMDA.by nerfing them when you got your Islots unlocked and have you start doing more UG and Keyes.

One of the problems is you can run 3-4 Bafs in the same amount of time that 1 UG can be run.And not have the large possibility of failure that you do with the UG final Boss.Better
xp/inf vs risk/time.

/sign with a kiss.

Although the gameplay can be fine by having plenty of instances, something I learned from CoH critics is they hate the lack of immersion the overworld gives. Right now the overworld map serves as little more than a distraction while you move from one instanced map to the next, and the instanced maps aren't stellar. After the initial "ooh" and "ahh" of playing the game you quickly lose interest in exploring anything in the zones. There isn't anything to really explore, either. It goes from one cityscape/island to another cityscape/island with no exploration rewards outside of tiny and hard to find badges placed at fairly arbitrary locations. Did you know that Grandville has an underground section of passages and pipes that spiderlings run through? No, you don't, because you lost interest in exploring the grey ground with grey buildings and grey features littered with arachnos soldiers by St. Martial. There's nothing on top of buildings. There's nothing inside the buildings. There's nothing between the buildings. It is just more buildings. As cool as that under-Grandville area is, other than getting stuck there for a bit and watching the spiderlings there is nothing to do there.

This is also a big turnoff to new players who see the game as empty. Playing in instanced missions is like playing a single-player offshoot from the main game, and lacks a lot of the dynamics that take place in the overworld. You don't get "rescued" in instances, you don't meet new people in instances, you don't encounter overly powerful enemies in instances, and everything that takes place in an instance dies the moment the instance ends. Want to have a big event where someone watches you do something? Sorry, you can't, since if it takes place in an instance then at most 7 other people will see your accomplishment. Instances are just such an isolated and stale environment that it is no wonder so many players become quickly bored with the content in the game.


Needless to say, I will be playing GW2 the moment it comes out. I am looking forward to it greatly.

BUT, as much complaining as I have done, there are several things that can be done in the game to make things a whole lot more interesting:

#1: Missions that occur outdoors only that aren't "kill 10 of x". If, for instance, a mission spawns a large number of mobs in an area that needs to be cleared out, or if there is a protection mission where you need to defend a politician's limo that will be regularly attacked by enemies on it's route, or you need to find a location by overhearing enemies and then go to that location purely off of what they say. Just SOMETHING that is clearly visible in the overworld. This will have the dynamics of an open world game and will also show newer players that the game isn't abandoned and full of soloers.

#2: bigger zones in either one of two ways: creating a subterranean section that has different enemies and going ons, and/or making it so many of the buildings in the game are hollow on the inside to allow for some impromptu building exploration. Either one will work: one of the funnest things I've done recently is get lost in Las Vegas. Walked down to the strip, and got lost. To navigate my way, I wandered into the Wynn casino to ask for directions, and that is when I saw it: a miniature forest of trees near the lobby completely covered with christmas tree lights (or something similar) and icicles and colorful plants. As I walked through those pathways completely lost, I forgot that I was trying to go somewhere and was just distracted by the majesty of the glowing wonderland I had stumbled upon completely by accident.

A similar thing happened in CoX when someone showed me the matrix room. It's a secret room in CoX that can only be reached via a glitch. Once I got there, I spent 10-20 minutes just in awe that such a place existed. That feeling that I had wandering through Vegas was recreated right then and there. Praetoria was very well done IMO, in that everything is unique looking and the zone events are approachable. But alas, with travel powers zipping us across the map in mere moments, having small maps doesn't do much to help the "this game looks abandoned" problem.

#3: Non mission happenings in zones. Maybe after killing so many enemies of a certain faction, something happens like an AV spawns or a riot breaks out or that enemy group goes into hiding and changes their location or you'll get info about big going-ons taking place underground or in buildings. Or if the right NPC gets saved they'll give you a buff or unlock a building for you or give you information on what enemies are doing what where or you'll unlock missions. Or maybe there's a bomb plot you need to stop before a building goes up, or an outbreak of some virus that will turn civvies into enemies and you have to stop it *without* going into a mission. Just put elements into a zone that are dynamic and can change a few things about the zone.

#4: more destructible environments. Instead of enemies standing around and just talking, they can be destroying objects that would otherwise be untargetable to regular players. I mentioned buildings being blown up earlier.


I'd love for more of these things to be in game. As much fun as broadcasted zone events can be, there's no reason to be limited only to those events to make zones dynamic.

Please understand that I mean no offence when I say this, but...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blood Red Arachnid Did you know that Grandville has an underground section of passages and pipes that spiderlings run through? No, you don't, because you lost interest in exploring the grey ground with grey buildings and grey features littered with arachnos soldiers by St. Martial.

Yes, I did know about that, actually. I saw that much of the ground was grating instead of solid plate with tunnels below. I explored it, I found the tunnel that leads to the beach are and to the Fab. I explored the Web and found all the "Highlander 2" lifts that take me on top of the Web. I got to the Master of the Airwaves badge using only Sprint. I found all the lifts that lead out of the Gutter and the all of of ONE lift that leads up to the Web, as well as the one that leads to the outside terrace of the Arachnos tower.

City of Heroes and especially City of Villains has a lot to explore. True, there are no rewards for doing so, but I consider this to be a good thing. Otherwise, you'd just see people going to Vidiotmaps to find the exploration milestones and miss the point. The reward for exploration is the sights you discover.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blood Red Arachnid You don't get "rescued" in instances, you don't meet new people in instances, you don't encounter overly powerful enemies in instances, and everything that takes place in an instance dies the moment the instance ends. Want to have a big event where someone watches you do something? Sorry, you can't, since if it takes place in an instance then at most 7 other people will see your accomplishment. Instances are just such an isolated and stale environment that it is no wonder so many players become quickly bored with the content in the game.

All of these I consider to be good things, and all the things you seem to be missing I consider to be intrusions. I don't want other people butting into my fights, I don't want to meet new people, I REALLY don't need to encounter overly powerful enemies and I HATE the fact that enemies respawn. The ideal mission for me is the one I can complete by myself and bring people in only if I choose to. I've only quit this game once for two months, and a large part of the reason is I felt compelled to keep seeking out people to play with. Yeah, I'm playing an MMO - because a single-player of City of Heroes doesn't exist. But if the whole game were instanced, I would not bat an eye. I don't need or indeed even want other people I didn't specifically invite.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blood Red Arachnid #1: Missions that occur outdoors only that aren't "kill 10 of x". If, for instance, a mission spawns a large number of mobs in an area that needs to be cleared out, or if there is a protection mission where you need to defend a politician's limo that will be regularly attacked by enemies on it's route, or you need to find a location by overhearing enemies and then go to that location purely off of what they say. Just SOMETHING that is clearly visible in the overworld. This will have the dynamics of an open world game and will also show newer players that the game isn't abandoned and full of soloers.

I would pay real money for a game that's full of soloers, personally, but that's besides the point.

What you're describing is exactly what I hate about most MMOs when it comes to outdoor content because it kills my suspension of disbelief dead. You can even see this in existing events. The giant octopus that shows up around town is nothing but a nuisance and people just walk around it. 9Dragons had named enemies spawning multiple times concurrently and other games I've seen have the same event happen over and over again. Just how many times is that politician's limo going to get in a firefight before he buys an APC? Having "events" take place outside seems like a good idea at first, but loses its appeal very quickly when you realise it will never end. Instanced missions, at least, have a defined beginning and an end and only repeat if I specifically choose to repeat the mission.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blood Red Arachnid One of the funnest things I've done recently is get lost in Las Vegas. Walked down to the strip, and got lost. To navigate my way, I wandered into the Wynn casino to ask for directions, and that is when I saw it: a miniature forest of trees near the lobby completely covered with christmas tree lights (or something similar) and icicles and colorful plants. As I walked through those pathways completely lost, I forgot that I was trying to go somewhere and was just distracted by the majesty of the glowing wonderland I had stumbled upon completely by accident.

I, by contrast, have frequent nightmares about being lost in unfamiliar places, and it's never, ever pleasant. I mean, don't get me wrong, I enjoy the unexplored wilderness aspect of the Shadow Shard, but more for the atmosphere rather than for the sense of being lost. I HATE being lost, which is 90% of why I never got past the first few hours of Gothic 3. I kept getting lost in the woods and unable to find any of the stuff I was looking for, eventually leading to a frustrating experience.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blood Red Arachnid #4: more destructible environments. Instead of enemies standing around and just talking, they can be destroying objects that would otherwise be untargetable to regular players. I mentioned buildings being blown up earlier.

The same old problem then occurs - you end up with a world that's constantly destroyed, because I guarantee I'll always be too late the see the destruction happen. And if they respawn like those cars and trucks the Skulls are constantly blowing up in Kings Row, then it loses its point. Even the Steel Canoyon Fires (which I actually like, since I can do them by myself) have this problem that it doesn't really matter if you save the building or not. It'll respawn within a few hours anyway.

I never wanted to spend a lot of time in the overworld. I like "travel missions" through world, occasionally, where I'll fight everything along the way and enjoy the terrain, but I prefer to do this by myself.

*edit*
And I won't be getting Guild Wars 2. There's nothing in it that's compelling to me personally, "events" least of all.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

Why must you test me so... seriously, you've really got to take the post as a whole or else you miss things.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow City of Heroes and especially City of Villains has a lot to explore. True, there are no rewards for doing so, but I consider this to be a good thing. Otherwise, you'd just see people going to Vidiotmaps to find the exploration milestones and miss the point. The reward for exploration is the sights you discover.

My suggestion isn't just about rewards. You need something to do there and something to be there, since this "exploration for exploration" reason doesn't fly with me, since all of the sights I find are hardly noticeable and won't hold my interest for longer than a minute (sans the matrix room, which is the exception). Otherwise the zones are a maze of grey buildings with no cheese at the end and a bunch of the same enemies you find in littered aimlessly in the zone. There needs to be more to an environment than just scenery.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow All of these I consider to be good things, and all the things you seem to be missing I consider to be intrusions. I don't want other people butting into my fights, I don't want to meet new people, I REALLY don't need to encounter overly powerful enemies and I HATE the fact that enemies respawn. The ideal mission for me is the one I can complete by myself and bring people in only if I choose to. I've only quit this game once for two months, and a large part of the reason is I felt compelled to keep seeking out people to play with. Yeah, I'm playing an MMO - because a single-player of City of Heroes doesn't exist. But if the whole game were instanced, I would not bat an eye. I don't need or indeed even want other people I didn't specifically invite.

I do want other people butting into my fights. I already considered the idea that someone can be bothered by inconvenience (or convenience, not really clear with just "butting"). Honestly I just see no justification to accommodate for your playing style. There's plenty of instance if you want to avoid the public like the plague.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow I would pay real money for a game that's full of soloers, personally, but that's besides the point. What you're describing is exactly what I hate about most MMOs when it comes to outdoor content because it kills my suspension of disbelief dead. You can even see this in existing events. The giant octopus that shows up around town is nothing but a nuisance and people just walk around it. 9Dragons had named enemies spawning multiple times concurrently and other games I've seen have the same event happen over and over again. Just how many times is that politician's limo going to get in a firefight before he buys an APC? Having "events" take place outside seems like a good idea at first, but loses its appeal very quickly when you realise it will never end. Instanced missions, at least, have a defined beginning and an end and only repeat if I specifically choose to repeat the mission.

These are overworld missions: they only occur if you choose that mission to occur. The issue with non-mission zone events can be resolved by giving better rewards. The reason why people avoid Luca is because there's no reason to kill her. As for the mini events that I list below, those are more about having visual effects for the actions of heroes, and those can also give rewards. Personally I think the whole "20 zone events a day" model is flawed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow The same old problem then occurs - you end up with a world that's constantly destroyed, because I guarantee I'll always be too late the see the destruction happen. And if they respawn like those cars and trucks the Skulls are constantly blowing up in Kings Row, then it loses its point. Even the Steel Canoyon Fires (which I actually like, since I can do them by myself) have this problem that it doesn't really matter if you save the building or not. It'll respawn within a few hours anyway. I never wanted to spend a lot of time in the overworld. I like "travel missions" through world, occasionally, where I'll fight everything along the way and enjoy the terrain, but I prefer to do this by myself.

Whether they respawn is highly irrelevant to their destruction; the whole appeal is that enemies on the street are doing things other than just standing around waiting for some hero to beat them up. This ties in more with the OP's suggestion. Of course, the issue here has devolved for you to a no-win situation: you don't want the events to be permanent, and yet you don't want the events to be temporary. Since there isn't any alternative to permanent AND temporary, it is a no-win situation.

@Blood Red Arachnid:

Sam is an extreme edge case in this discussion- he likes what he likes, he plays how he plays, and there's no point debating him on it because that's just how he rolls. Nobody's going to convince him of anything when it comes to how he approaches the game...and I think Sam would agree with me here. =P

So, it's best to note his objections, admit your idea would never be able to accommodate him and move on with the discussion.

Part of the reason I enjoyed GW2's beta weekend event was the fact that content like this, outdoors, involving multiple people, led to people actually working together like they might in any kind of realistic setting.

Did someone join in and help you fight a guy? you lose NO xp, NO loot, NO rewards. He can't even steal a mining node from you, you can mine it yourself even if he mines it and it disappears for him. Ahh, it's wonderful.

But since that much is out of the question I'd just like to move in that direction a tad.

Giving players a bit more action and a bit less standing around would be great.

I shouldn't see random thugs just standing around like they're waiting on the queue.