How can you as a player easily make the game more fun for others?
By
Agent White,
Posted on: 2012-05-02 09:57 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
it is simple - if a player asks it makes sense to rate their powerset
if a player does not ask, one should not tell them it is bad
just like you should tell people if their costume is cool
and if asked you should tell them your honest opinion
but you should not just volunteer to someone that their costume sucks unasked
people like compliments
otherwise if they want your opinion they will ask
it is possible that volunteering that their powerset sucks will help them, but the chance is very small and the chance that you will annoy them is great
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Now that's a Miss Mannersly reply on gaming etiquette. I approve.
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Originally Posted by dugfromthearth
it is simple - if a player asks it makes sense to rate their powerset
if a player does not ask, one should not tell them it is bad just like you should tell people if their costume is cool and if asked you should tell them your honest opinion but you should not just volunteer to someone that their costume sucks unasked people like compliments otherwise if they want your opinion they will ask it is possible that volunteering that their powerset sucks will help them, but the chance is very small and the chance that you will annoy them is great |
In the room the women come and go
Talking of Michelangelo.
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In-game, I usually don't go around commenting on people's characters unless they ask how sets compare to their peers in the first place. |
Originally Posted by Bright
At the same time, it's also pretty safe to assume that because of people like yourself, any of us who play those 'sub-par' sets or ATs have ALREADY heard the stalkers-are-gimped/peacebringers-suck/force-field-defenders-are-useless/ninja-are-useless song and dance often enough to find it more annoying than in any way helpful. As someone who plays a fair few of those types of characters, trust me on that one. There's no shortage of people all too willing to tell us how awful our characters are. You really don't need to worry about adding your voice to the chorus.
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[edit] Or game balance discussions come up.
P.S. Thanks to the efforts of players who believe in game balance over political correctness, stalkers and PBs are much better than they once were.
Don't be under the impression that people are useless unless they take the exact powers you think they should and play their character exactly how you want them to.
I run into more people like this. Needless to say, my stay on their teams is short.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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It's one thing to tell the Devs something isn't up to par... it is another to tell the players themselves. I like how this turned from 'etiquette' and being nice to fellow gamers to 'who's right.'
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Originally Posted by Laevateinn
P.S. Thanks to the efforts of players who believe in game balance over political correctness, stalkers and PBs are much better than they once were.
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Now you're just being silly...|
Originally Posted by Laevateinn
In-game, I usually don't go around commenting on people's characters unless they ask how sets compare to their peers in the first place.
[edit] Or game balance discussions come up. P.S. Thanks to the efforts of players who believe in game balance over political correctness, stalkers and PBs are much better than they once were. |
Do you honestly believe that the recent changes to those two ATs were the result of people like you telling people like me how badly our characters were gimped? Really? Because I'd almost be willing to bet that the changes have a whole lot more to do with those of us who actually PLAY those characters making comments and observations about them here on the forums or in coversations with the devs than from your critiques of other players.
@Brightfires - @Talisander
That chick what plays the bird-things...
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I've always found this attitude strange. Costumes are the creation of the player. Powersets aren't. They're like tools or machines, their merits can be discussed separately from the characters wielding them. If people get annoyed hearing that one machine is better than another, they're too wound up for their own good. |
Originally Posted by dugfromthearth
just like you should tell people if their costume is cool
and if asked you should tell them your honest opinion but you should not just volunteer to someone that their costume sucks unasked |
If you were playing a paper plane blast character and someone told you "Hey, paper plane blast is really really good!", would you be pleased?
I will volunteer information if I see something seriously wrong with someone's build, but if it's just powers that I wouldn't normally take myself I let them play their character how they want.
Example: If I see a level 28 Invuln/SS Tanker who doesn't have Unyielding, I'll explain to them why that power is important.
Counter-example: If that same character has Unyielding, but also has Hand Clap, I'll let them play their character unless it starts to become detrimental to the team.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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Critiquing powersets is a lot different from critiquing players, although many thin-skinned people conflate the two.
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Originally Posted by Bright
Now you're just being silly...
Do you honestly believe that the recent changes to those two ATs were the result of people like you telling people like me how badly our characters were gimped? Really? Because I'd almost be willing to bet that the changes have a whole lot more to do with those of us who actually PLAY those characters making comments and observations about them here on the forums or in coversations with the devs than from your critiques of other players. |
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Nice attempt at a swipe there, but I think you'll find I'm not so thin-skinned as all that. Quite the contrary...|
Originally Posted by Laevateinn
Critiquing powersets is a lot different from critiquing players, although many thin-skinned people conflate the two.
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The point is, it's not up to you what other people play. It's not your responsibility to tell them how flawed you may think their picks are or how much more uber you think another choice would have been. You're certainly entitled to your opinion, but so is everyone else, and if they happen to like their MA Stalker or their Mercs mastermind or their FF defender, it's not your place to tell them the're "doing it wrong".
@Brightfires - @Talisander
That chick what plays the bird-things...
Keeping in mind that this thread is about making the game more fun for other players...
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What do you see as the best possible outcome of telling someone that one of their power sets is bad? Would it be ideal for them to say, "Thanks, I didn't know that! I'm off to delete this character and re-roll it," or would it be better if they just felt bad that they'd put so much effort into a sub-par set and continued trudging along now confident that they're wasting their time?
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Originally Posted by Laevateinn
Nothing wrong with that. There are still some pretty bad sets in the game, and I'm going to call a spade a spade.
The last part of your statement betrays some of your assumptions. See, when I say a set is bad, I'm not trying to discourage anyone from playing it. I'm just informing them it doesn't perform to the level possible with other powersets, and what they do with that knowledge is up to them. |
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We can at least agree on that: It's not up to me what other people play. As I said, i'm not interested in telling people they're "doing it wrong", unlike those who try to tell me that the game is really about roleplaying and concept and I'm doing it wrong myself, or that I can't have fun because I use IOs and play FotM minmax builds.|
Originally Posted by Bright
Nice attempt at a swipe there, but I think you'll find I'm not so thin-skinned as all that. Quite the contrary...
The point is, it's not up to you what other people play. It's not your responsibility to tell them how flawed you may think their picks are or how much more uber you think another choice would have been. You're certainly entitled to your opinion, but so is everyone else, and if they happen to like their MA Stalker or their Mercs mastermind or their FF defender, it's not your place to tell them the're "doing it wrong". |
At the same time, criticism of a powerset isn't criticism of a player, their characters, their playstyles, or their choices. That's what I'm trying to say.
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I bet to 94.3% of the players a criticism of a powerset is a criticism of their character and their choices.|
Originally Posted by Laevateinn
At the same time, criticism of a powerset isn't criticism of a player, their characters, their playstyles, or their choices. That's what I'm trying to say.
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How can it not be a criticism of their character and their choices?
1. "I chose Archery/Devices"
2. "Devices is bad"
how can that not mean the choice of devices was bad?
1. "My character is Archery/Devices"
2. "Devices is bad"
how can that not mean the character is bad?
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"Paper Plane Blast is badly designed" |
Originally Posted by dugfromthearth
1. "I chose Archery/Devices"
2. "Devices is bad" how can that not mean the choice of devices was bad? 1. "My character is Archery/Devices" 2. "Devices is bad" how can that not mean the character is bad? |
How is that a criticism of any player?
"Paper Plane Blast doesn't perform to the level of Fire Blast"
How does this have anything to do with anyone's playstyle?
so you say "criticism of a powerset isn't criticism of a player, their characters, their playstyles, or their choices."
I say "criticism of a powerset is a criticism of their character and their choices"
and you ignore what I say and come back defending the two things I did not say you were wrong about.
I therefore conclude you know that it is a criticism of their character and their choices and you are hoping to change the subject.
Apology accepted, and I consider the matter closed.
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You deliberately framed the question so that it could be interpreted that way, so I offered a counterexample.|
Originally Posted by dugfromthearth
I therefore conclude you know that it is a criticism of their character and their choices and you are hoping to change the subject.
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Nice attempt to claim victory there, though.
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That was the power set THEY CHOSE. |
Originally Posted by Laevateinn
"Paper Plane Blast is badly designed"
How is that a criticism of any player? |
I will occasionally point out a mistake that someone made with their build if it is critical to them being able to perform their function (i.e. a tank with no mez protection won't be tanking very well)
I NEVER tell someone out of the blue that the powerset they chose to play is a bad one, regardless of what my opinion of it is. It is not my place, or anyone else's, to tell someone that they made a bad choice with their entire character. (Since they cannot correct that choice without deleting the character)
It's very simple: When you tell someone that the power set they chose to play is bad, you are ALSO telling them they made a bad choice in playing that power set.
Last time I checked, telling someone they made a poor decision is pretty much the definition of criticism, no matter how you want to paint it.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
I will volunteer information if I see something seriously wrong with someone's build, but if it's just powers that I wouldn't normally take myself I let them play their character how they want.
Example: If I see a level 28 Invuln/SS Tanker who doesn't have Unyielding, I'll explain to them why that power is important. Counter-example: If that same character has Unyielding, but also has Hand Clap, I'll let them play their character unless it starts to become detrimental to the team. |
I tend to take a slightly different tact. I usually ask them, out of curiosity, if there was a particular reason they hadn't taken Unyielding, or a similar power. Once I get their answer, it makes it easier for me to explain why it's not a bad idea to have that power as it makes their life easier.
Throwing darts at the board to see if something sticks.....
Come show your resolve and fight my brute!
Tanks: Gauntlet, the streak breaker and you!
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Originally Posted by PapaSlade
Rangle's right....this is fun.
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Stating that X powerset isn't up to par has nothing to do with criticizing other people's decisions. It's an assertion which can be challenged like any other statement. People may chose to play characters for any number of reasons and I'm not privy to nor have any interest in their decisions. If people insist on interpreting it as criticism that's their prerogative. I'm not about to censor myself just because people take offense that their internet superheroes aren't the best.|
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
It's very simple: When you tell someone that the power set they chose to play is bad, you are ALSO telling them they made a bad choice in playing that power set.
Last time I checked, telling someone they made a poor decision is pretty much the definition of criticism, no matter how you want to paint it. |
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| I NEVER tell someone out of the blue that the powerset they chose to play is a bad one, regardless of what my opinion of it is. |
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Originally Posted by Laevateinn
In-game, I usually don't go around commenting on people's characters unless they ask how sets compare to their peers in the first place.
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How to make the game more fun for others?
Apparently don't ask about how good or bad power sets are, people apparently get up in arms you're criticizing them. 
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To which I'll add:|
Originally Posted by Agent White
How to make the game more fun for others?
Apparently don't ask about how good or bad power sets are, people apparently get up in arms you're criticizing them. |
Don't be oversensitive - you make the game unfun for everyone.
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Why are you so afraid of the c-word? You're critical of other people's choices. Even if you decide not to communicate your dissatisfaction with others' builds, it's obvious that you have them. Just own up to it already.
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Originally Posted by Laevateinn
Stating that X powerset isn't up to par has nothing to do with criticizing other people's decisions. It's an assertion which can be challenged like any other statement. People may chose to play characters for any number of reasons and I'm not privy to nor have any interest in their decisions. If people insist on interpreting it as criticism that's their prerogative. I'm not about to censor myself just because people take offense that their internet superheroes aren't the best.
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I like to slot Speed Boost with 3 Run Speed IOs, so my teammates can get to the bad guys that much faster.
@Quantum Evil Rad/Rad Corruptor
Making the world safe for maleficent particles since 2004.
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A little bird told me a hilarious story about how people can make those slots wasted. |
Originally Posted by Quantum Evil
I like to slot Speed Boost with 3 Run Speed IOs, so my teammates can get to the bad guys that much faster.
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Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound
Many people enjoy the game without getting involved in the character optimization side of things. I've no intention of trying to change their playstyle or proclaim that mine is superior, unlike those who look down on character optimization. However, I do believe in giving players what I consider accurate information so that they can make decisions for themselves.
Also, as a general thing... don't mistake silence for apathy or anger or any of that. Some of us just don't have the typing speed to both play the game and chat at the same time. When I'm on a team, I tend to believe that my team-mates would prefer for me to be be doing my "job" rather than stopping in the middle of a fight to reply to someone's cheesie jokes. If we're between mobs, I will... if not, I'm going to be more focused on the task at hand. That's not an uncommon thing.
@Brightfires - @Talisander
That chick what plays the bird-things...