Fix Outdated Costume Category Segregation
Hats, Helmets, Half Helmets, and Special Helmets merged into a single "Headgear" category, retaining all detail options from all legacy categories, combined
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Also, not all detail options are available on all those headgear categories. Where would a beard go on a full helmet?
Also, not all detail options are available on all those headgear categories. Where would a beard go on a full helmet? |
If you mean on the proposed "Headgear" category - in the normal detail 2 where they are now.
@Draeth Darkstar
Virtue [Heroes, Roleplay], Freedom [Villains], Exalted [All Sides, Roleplay]
I24 Proc Chance = (Enhanced Recharge + Activation Time) * (Current PPM * 1.25) / 60*(1 + .75*(.15*Radius - 0.011*Radius*(360-Arc)/30)) Single Target Radius = 0. AoE Non-Cone Arc = 360.
That'd become a massive scroll list.
Also, not all detail options are available on all those headgear categories. Where would a beard go on a full helmet? |
To the OP... I agree. The costume creator needs a major dusting.
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@Draeth Darkstar
Virtue [Heroes, Roleplay], Freedom [Villains], Exalted [All Sides, Roleplay]
I24 Proc Chance = (Enhanced Recharge + Activation Time) * (Current PPM * 1.25) / 60*(1 + .75*(.15*Radius - 0.011*Radius*(360-Arc)/30)) Single Target Radius = 0. AoE Non-Cone Arc = 360.
I can see combining hats with helmets since they're essentially the same thing, but I CANNOT see combining them with Half-Helmets. Half-helmets all have pretty much the same shape because of the two categories specific to them, which is Helmet Detail 1 and Helmet Detail 2. Those are simply incompatible with hats and really don't work with most anything which isn't half-helmet-shaped. Even the ridiculous conical helmet fails to work with a good few of those. The basic reason we got Half-Helmets in the first place was to give us a generic, customizable helmet framework so we wouldn't have to make do with either a whole head swap or a generic helmet.
The problem with Jackets and Sleeveless Jackets is similar. Regular jackets don't have any arm geometry under the sleeves, which was done partly for performance concerns, but mostly to avoid the HORRID clipping issues sleeves had for a long time. Combining the two would bring those clipping issues back. That said, I see no reason why all gloves can't be made available even with Sleeved jackets. Some would clip with the sleeves, yes, but some would simply draw over them, exactly like the Interrogators from Praetoria. In fact, I'd REALLY love to see this done with Trenchcoats, since those don't HAVE a sleeveless option that's usable with bulkier gloves. More trenchcoats would be nice, too, but that's besides the point.
All of that said, I do want to see all pieces mysteriously available on some bodies but not others proliferated. Can we PLEASE get the shoulder fur from the Bolero for women appear in Sleeveless Jackets? It's already present in Sleeved Jackets, but not in Sleevelss. Why? Hell, why can't it be available for all upper body types? It doesn't have to be a fur trim sewn onto an article of clothing. It could be something as simple as a Mink Shawl.
Not that many categories can be unified, but quite a few pieces can be proliferated. Like Monstrous gloves for Robotic Arms.
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Personally, I would love to see a number of the domino style mask details only available under full masks made available on standard as well, despite the clipping risks.
I agree with Draeth's post. I'd also like to see the "Back" category re-evaluated as well, especially with the introduction of backpacks and the "floating" but rigid celestial back-pieces.
I can completely understand the dev's viewpoint of "Only one floaty costume piece per character", due to performance and clipping issues. However, with the edition of the "non-floaty" back pieces, I would quite like to see the category separated, so that, for instance, you could wear the Celestial adornments at the same time as a cape or bolero, for instance. Similarly, have the ability to wear the Elemental shard pack, along with the celestial energy wings for eg.
I would also like to see the Carnie masks propogated to the half-helmets category (I think thats the one - with the valkyrie, roman, warrior helms?).
I can completely understand the dev's viewpoint of "Only one floaty costume piece per character", due to performance and clipping issues. However, with the edition of the "non-floaty" back pieces, I would quite like to see the category separated, so that, for instance, you could wear the Celestial adornments at the same time as a cape or bolero, for instance. Similarly, have the ability to wear the Elemental shard pack, along with the celestial energy wings for eg.
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That said, the game seems able to lock specific category items, rather than entire categories. If you're wearing a cape, then your upper body type category will simply skip trenchcoats and the bolero by not including them in the list. I'd like to see the same done for back details, as well - when wearing a costume part cape rig, then leave only wings and backpacks as back details, disabling Full Mantle, Half Mantle, Asymmetrical Mantle, Over-Shoulder Cape, Single-Shoulder Cape and High Collar Cape.
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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I can see combining hats with helmets since they're essentially the same thing, but I CANNOT see combining them with Half-Helmets. Half-helmets all have pretty much the same shape because of the two categories specific to them, which is Helmet Detail 1 and Helmet Detail 2. Those are simply incompatible with hats and really don't work with most anything which isn't half-helmet-shaped. Even the ridiculous conical helmet fails to work with a good few of those. The basic reason we got Half-Helmets in the first place was to give us a generic, customizable helmet framework so we wouldn't have to make do with either a whole head swap or a generic helmet.
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The Celestial Armor Half Helmet broke the design pattern for Half Helmets and clips atrociously with most of the old designs. This removes any argument for other helmets that don't fit the original approximate "bubble dome" shape from being added to the category, and many of the options from Hats, Hemets, and Special Helmets could look really cool combined with some of the Half Helmet features.
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The problem with Jackets and Sleeveless Jackets is similar. Regular jackets don't have any arm geometry under the sleeves, which was done partly for performance concerns, but mostly to avoid the HORRID clipping issues sleeves had for a long time. Combining the two would bring those clipping issues back. That said, I see no reason why all gloves can't be made available even with Sleeved jackets. Some would clip with the sleeves, yes, but some would simply draw over them, exactly like the Interrogators from Praetoria. In fact, I'd REALLY love to see this done with Trenchcoats, since those don't HAVE a sleeveless option that's usable with bulkier gloves. More trenchcoats would be nice, too, but that's besides the point.
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@Draeth Darkstar
Virtue [Heroes, Roleplay], Freedom [Villains], Exalted [All Sides, Roleplay]
I24 Proc Chance = (Enhanced Recharge + Activation Time) * (Current PPM * 1.25) / 60*(1 + .75*(.15*Radius - 0.011*Radius*(360-Arc)/30)) Single Target Radius = 0. AoE Non-Cone Arc = 360.
This was true once upon a time, but is no longer. I addressed it specifically in in my OP.
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What, really, do you gain from being able to use those pieces on hats when they match pretty much not a single hat?
This might be true for Jackets, I again don't have time to verify right now, but it is assuredly not true for Robes, which have sleeve options that leave basically the entire upper arm exposed.
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This is a problem we DO NOT WANT to replicate, and I cannot emphasise this enough. Forcing human arms on torsos that aren't human is a big mistake. I mean, I don't mind it as an option, maybe in Robotic Arms, but if that's your vision of how sleeveless jackets would work, you're going to break a lot of costumes.
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Clipping is one thing. Having costume items hovering in mid air attached to nothing is just unprofessional. You may not see it immediately, but the Half Helmet is CONSIDERABLY larger than a regular head, thus all of its details would float on a lot of the hats. One horribly misplaced detail (and the Celestial face plate is HORRID) is not a justification for making it worse.
What, really, do you gain from being able to use those pieces on hats when they match pretty much not a single hat? |
Multiple sleeves with bare arms do exist, but those are a grievous problem for one simple fact - these aren't your real arms. Specifically, the short shirt sleeves on Jackets use a replica of a bare skin arm regardless of what you have under it. If you're robot wearing a shirt, then tough - you get human skin arms. If you're a lizard wearing a shirt, then tough - you get human skin arms. It was actually hilarious when women got the male arms with the bulging muscles and the veins and everything with those sleeves. This is a problem we DO NOT WANT to replicate, and I cannot emphasise this enough. Forcing human arms on torsos that aren't human is a big mistake. I mean, I don't mind it as an option, maybe in Robotic Arms, but if that's your vision of how sleeveless jackets would work, you're going to break a lot of costumes. |
@Draeth Darkstar
Virtue [Heroes, Roleplay], Freedom [Villains], Exalted [All Sides, Roleplay]
I24 Proc Chance = (Enhanced Recharge + Activation Time) * (Current PPM * 1.25) / 60*(1 + .75*(.15*Radius - 0.011*Radius*(360-Arc)/30)) Single Target Radius = 0. AoE Non-Cone Arc = 360.
Mostly? From being able to use them with all the hats-that-are-actually-helmets.
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I don't actually know enough about robes to say. That's the case for Jackets, though, and it's been a bone of contention for some time. I don't like it, myself - I wish there were no need for two different kinds of jackets, but this is pretty much necessity. There didn't use to be two different kinds when the "new" jackets section replaced the old generic "Suit Jacket" category, but they added those after the fact because they pretty much had to.
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Hats don't have optional doohickeys, helmets do. Nice simple rule.
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@Draeth Darkstar
Virtue [Heroes, Roleplay], Freedom [Villains], Exalted [All Sides, Roleplay]
I24 Proc Chance = (Enhanced Recharge + Activation Time) * (Current PPM * 1.25) / 60*(1 + .75*(.15*Radius - 0.011*Radius*(360-Arc)/30)) Single Target Radius = 0. AoE Non-Cone Arc = 360.
I wish more chest details were available with trenchcoats- currently we can only use neckties, award ribbons, and the painted-on symbols. None of the cool 3d stuff at all. That really limits the usefulness of the trenchcoat, IMHO.
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Sam, you of all people should be able to see the utility of floating helmet details above hats! Considering the many unorthodox costume requests you have made, asking that something not be allowed like that should seem like a smack to creativity. While some will look ridiculous, Draeth is proposing that it be left to the player to not use those.
Simple.
I support this idea 100%, and further endorse that other categories be looked at with a similar eye to reducing category bloat.
Sam, you of all people should be able to see the utility of floating helmet details above hats! Considering the many unorthodox costume requests you have made, asking that something not be allowed like that should seem like a smack to creativity. While some will look ridiculous, Draeth is proposing that it be left to the player to not use those.
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I'm not saying I don't want to see helmet details on hats, I just know that they need to be adapted. I've seen far too many "simple" costume piece proliferations that introduce very ugly bugs that make the piece unusable. The easiest example I can actually give you right off the top of my head is the Mecca Armour jetpack backpack costume detail. It's designed to be used with an Armoured torso where the back is about an inch further out than on the Tights torso, so when you use it with Tights, the flat "base" floats in the air and the pack is attacked only via a narrow girder which protrudes further from the base. I don't know if those are adjustable... Shields adjust to the glove used, but it looks kind of awkward. Since this is the only jet pack I have, I will use it, but it does not look as good as it could have.
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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I see, it's not an opposition to the idea, but to the concept that some things will be visible that were never meant to be. Gotcha.
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See, when I say "look right," I don't mean to say they should avoid all clipping or that it should all look like it was designed together. Some clipping is fine. Some misalignment is fine. We can work around it. However, when an item looks genuinely BUGGED, that's a problem.
Easy example something happened at some point where many female hairstyles don't fit female heads closely, leaving a gap which exposes back-facing polygons, which in turn puts "holes" in the hair. So far, it's very hard to see because it's a small gap around the ears and it's only evident from a close-up from the front. That's actually also the case with the Mecca Armour jet pack. On the other hand, having my Shield Scrapper's black glove wrist strap constantly clipping through her white shield no matter what I do was visible from all angles and all distances and really bugged me. BABs later fixed all shields to offset a certain distance from the hand based on the glove so this doesn't happen any more, and I LOVE IT!
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What really presents a problem when it comes to costume proliferation is there are no "easy" solutions. Everything involves some kind of work, fiddling and fitting. I'm all for proliferating more costume details. For ******* YEARS I've been asking for a whole bunch of Half-Helmet details to be ported over to Full Helmets, but no. I don't think we even have the solid visors, but we certainly don't have any of the Martial Arts or Roman or Valkyrie stuff. I know the Full Helmet head is bigger (and it is), but I'd really like to see all of the Science Pack breathers enabled for Full Helmets. Just as an example.
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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I just want hats to have different hair styles.. i mean i know women for example can wear hats and have long hair.
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More and more often I'm finding these days that the one thing I really hate about the costume creator in this game, which is otherwise probably its best feature, is the way that parts are segregated across categories. Some of this segregation exists to "prevent clipping," and some of it is clearly accidental (Jackets can have the Bow Tie shoulder detail, but Sleeveless Jackets can't, for example).
At one point in time the organizational choices made some modicum of sense, but over the years the rules have gone by the wayside and now there are exceptions everywhere that make no sense.
I would, personally, really like to see two major changes to the Costume Creator that would take no options away, but give us many more, and put creative control over what looks good together in the hands of the players, where it should be.
This would be GREAT from a player-choice perspective, but it would also be beneficial to the Costume Artists. EVERY TIME a new costume set goes into beta testing, there are dozens of responses about how many of the options are missing from categories they would work fine in without alteration. Reducing the number of categories reduces the amount of time these Artists have to spend on proliferating pieces through them.
@Draeth Darkstar
Virtue [Heroes, Roleplay], Freedom [Villains], Exalted [All Sides, Roleplay]