Feedback - Energy Orbs


Arcanaville

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
I've actually been thinking about a buff/debuff set myself, and starting from first principles, like what is it supposed to be. I haven't quite got all the powers nailed down yet, but I do have three of the nine locked in that are the set-pieces of the set, and I'm building the set around them.

(The theme is: downtime reduction. Doesn't sound particularly interesting, but I think it will be when I'm finished with it.)
I've always liked Kinetics/Transference and tried to work a +end power in most buff/debuff Sets I came up with. When the new Burnout/Concentrated Strike was revealed, everything just clicked: Make a powerset that heals both bars and buffs recharge (maybe even take advantage of the aforementioned mechanic) to help reduce the downtime.

Even though Kinetics comes pretty close (but still has several enemy based attacks), we don't have a set focused on reducing downtime and help where IOs can't. Basically, we have extremely potent debuffing sets, but pure buff sets are not that attractive when the entire team sports expensive IO builds (except Kinetics and its exotic buffs, of course).

I'm really eager to see your take on this.


 

Posted

Actually, Kinetics and a change I wanted to Triage Beacon and Spirit Tree inspired the Recovery Orb for the same reason.


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Posted

My apologies to the non-VIPs - I was trying to get input from each section of the forums that this set would affect and completely forgot I am not allowed to cross-post. I realize this was my fault and you can contact me through my Youtube channels instead with ideas and changes.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by JayboH View Post
Since Healing Orb cannot be cast on oneself without a pet or teammate, I am concerned a little about mitigation for soloists. This is a location-based concept, you are expected to run in for Stun Orb, position yourself for a Recovery Orb drop, and be in range for Power Orb, and this is all intentional, partially for theme and for adding risk on purpose.

I suppose Rage and Stun can provide enough solo mitigation but Rage obviously is not going to be up every spawn without massive recharge or some downtime.

I just made several changes, part of which was lowering the buff of Shield Orb. Looking for more feedback. I also reorganized the power listing a little and think this might have better order.
I'm sure players are resourceful enough that healing orb isn't a problem solo even on a defender or corruptor.

Shield Orb probably needs a psi res hole. This set would be really nice on a Mastermind.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by xhris View Post
I've always liked Kinetics/Transference and tried to work a +end power in most buff/debuff Sets I came up with. When the new Burnout/Concentrated Strike was revealed, everything just clicked: Make a powerset that heals both bars and buffs recharge (maybe even take advantage of the aforementioned mechanic) to help reduce the downtime.

Even though Kinetics comes pretty close (but still has several enemy based attacks), we don't have a set focused on reducing downtime and help where IOs can't. Basically, we have extremely potent debuffing sets, but pure buff sets are not that attractive when the entire team sports expensive IO builds (except Kinetics and its exotic buffs, of course).

I'm really eager to see your take on this.
As a matter of fact, the burnout mechanic is *exactly* what inspired me to think about this particular buff/debuff set idea. But its tricky to do right because its *immensely* exploitable if done wrong.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
As a matter of fact, the burnout mechanic is *exactly* what inspired me to think about this particular buff/debuff set idea. But its tricky to do right because its *immensely* exploitable if done wrong.
One easy exploit: if a set has burnout, you can take the power pool burnout and have all powers recharged whenever you want them, indefinitely.


 

Posted

Let's be honest...



You just made this set up for the one and only...


Dillo.



*hoorb*


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Grim View Post
One easy exploit: if a set has burnout, you can take the power pool burnout and have all powers recharged whenever you want them, indefinitely.
I am sure she would have mechanics in place to fix this, and don't forget about the endurance issue that would bring.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Energizing_Ion View Post
Let's be honest...



You just made this set up for the one and only...


Dillo.



*hoorb*
LOL ok you caught me


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by newchemicals View Post
I'm sure players are resourceful enough that healing orb isn't a problem solo even on a defender or corruptor.

Shield Orb probably needs a psi res hole. This set would be really nice on a Mastermind.
Done, gave you credit.


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Posted

This set definitely needs an interesting hook to it... and the visuals do remind me a bit of FF... but I actually like that.

I think an interesting idea might be to focus on End Drain and +Recovery... but in order to do that (End Drain) there needs to be something else going on as well to make the effect less... polar (on or off). End drain tends to be one of those effects that either does a lot, or absolutely nothing. Perhaps more -MaxEnd could be incorporated as Arcana commented on previously.

I have to reiterate that I love the idea of a Spectral Terror like pet tossing out +End buffs. Kinetics and a few powers in Empathy focus on Endurance effects, so to me, it seems like a somewhat untapped market.

In short, I think that some of the disparate elements in this set need to be hacked, and a more cohesive theme implemented if you ever want it to see the light of day in the game.



 

Posted

Well, I didn't come up with any visuals other than animation descriptions, and the shield one emits something more like sonic's not FFs, and the themes are endurance management and location-based powers - the end management part goes both ways and fits the 'Energy' theme.

Please look at Drain and Stun orbs and how they would work together. Drain cuts their maximum endurance in half and Stun drains them, all while they are attacking. This set does not have -recharge, just slow movement. They would be draining their own end at normal speed but have it getting drained on top of having their entire end bar nerfed for the duration.

The Spectral Terror idea isn't much different than what I posted unless I missed something. I want to make sure it is immobile, whatever we do with that. One thing that I am not sure is even possible is to have it grant +MaxEnd - I don't know if anything beyond accolades do that. What about something like that? It would grant recovery like blue Circle of Thorns crystals, and grant a MaxEnd buff - not sure if that mechanic is possible or even worth it.


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Posted

If Accolades can do it, I think that means that a Power can do it. As far as worth it goes? Not sure... would depend on magnitude methinks. Dull Pain is worth it for +MaxHP... a similar idea but with Endurance seems kinda cool to me... and would certainly be unique.



 

Posted

Again, it would be location based, so once the pulse wears off you lose the buff, but it will easily be perma by design, only that you can only have one recovery orb out at a time.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Grim View Post
One easy exploit: if a set has burnout, you can take the power pool burnout and have all powers recharged whenever you want them, indefinitely.
Burnout doesn't recharge pool powers, so Pool Burnout would only recharge the buff Burnout, but the buff Burnout wouldn't then be able to recharge the pool burnout.

The bigger problem is two players burnout buffing each other repeatedly, which would require a lockout switch of some kind. In second place are stackable recharge powers that could wildly accelerate a burnout-like power even if it doesn't insta-recharge.


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Posted

Looks a lot better now that a lot of powers got powered down and tweaked to be a bit clearer. Nothing I can see glares at me being 'over the top', although I don't think I'm a fan of it having an Endurance Drain mechanic in any capacity, be it Max or Otherwise.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reppu View Post
Looks a lot better now that a lot of powers got powered down and tweaked to be a bit clearer. Nothing I can see glares at me being 'over the top', although I don't think I'm a fan of it having an Endurance Drain mechanic in any capacity, be it Max or Otherwise.
It has two abilities that work together to drain end - not sure if you realize how effective electric control is in that regard. It requires that you toe bomb on purpose to achieve this, by design. I appreciate the compliments, some of that goes to those that helped. I worked for quite a few hours on this even though I know it isn't finished. I was just trying to come up with some ideas that might spark creativity.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by JayboH View Post
It has two abilities that work together to drain end - not sure if you realize how effective electric control is in that regard. It requires that you toe bomb on purpose to achieve this, by design. I appreciate the compliments, some of that goes to those that helped. I worked for quite a few hours on this even though I know it isn't finished. I was just trying to come up with some ideas that might spark creativity.
I'm entirely aware of how effective Electric Control is. I'm not sure how good I feel about a Support Set being able to duplicate that, if I'm more clear now.


 

Posted

It's all soft control like Fearsome Stare is on Dark Miasma, and freezing rain/sleet regarding kd. I was actually encouraged by the devs I spoke with to go either in an end management or regen direction.

I will be happy to look at any ideas you have as well - I know you like numbers too but I contacted Arcanaville for some of that.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by JayboH View Post
It's all soft control like Fearsome Stare is on Dark Miasma, and freezing rain/sleet regarding kd. I was actually encouraged by the devs I spoke with to go either in an end management or regen direction.

I will be happy to look at any ideas you have as well - I know you like numbers too but I contacted Arcanaville for some of that.
I think the utter lack of -Regen in the set is a archaic mistake from the past. I'd personally like if Drain Orb did something interesting like creating a field of -Recovery, -Regen, and applied +Recovery, +Regen to allies within it. Although that'd be somewhat like Static Field, sans SF not having -Regen.

I'm sure it works, though, although -END usually doesn't work very well unless it's heavily focused. If two powers from 'Energy Orbs' can duplicate what you need most of Electric Control from, this is Not A Good Idea.

Also, you have Stun Orb for your Support Set Control Power.

I sort of like the idea of cascaded stacking -Regen/-Recovery, and increasing +Regen/+Recovery from a stationary orb. But that's just me. It would ALSO free up Recovery Orb and allow you to do something 'interesting'.

Finally, why 'Energy Orbs'? Why not Magic Runes like the glorious ones we've seen used often in Dark Astoria, the Tsoo, and sets like Demon Summoning? If nothing else I'd strongly suggest alternate animations involving both, but this is getting more into cosmetics, and me thinking we can really benefit from a rune-based support set, since we have so many in-game sources of them.

Orbs just sort of feels like it's stepping toes on Force Fields/Sonic, and it's arguably going to be "Just another literal bubble set". Where's the selling drive? The unique appeal? That's my concern from a marketing standpoint.

More bubbles isn't a good pitch.


 

Posted

Energy Orbs, not runes, because Energy Orbs can fit into all the origins. Runes are... magic only.

There is only one shield power in the set, just like Time, and it is PBAOE just like Time. It doesn't step on the toes of FF/Sonic - not FF since it is resist, and not Sonic as it is considerably weaker.

If you think Energy Orbs isn't a good pitch because of more bubbles, you must hate Time, because it uses a similar mechanic. Actually the same could be said of the RA powers in empathy - I don't know if you are just misinterpreting the descriptions but it sounds like it. The only bubble graphics are the large debuff orbs.

This isn't a fully realized set, naturally, but I wanted a stepping off point to see if we could make a nice set that would appeal to those looking for alternatives.

I think adding -regen to Drain Orb is a great idea. I have been careful about adding things to make sure the set isn't too OP. Let me do that and give you credit. How much -regen would work here?


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Posted

It's true, I didn't like Time. I felt they missed the aesthetics for it, hard.

As for Drain Orb, why not have it escalate? A stacking debuff that keeps ramping the longer they're in it, and not just front-loading? Although that'd make everything in Drain Orb likely need to follow suit.

Anyway, -500% is the standard for anything that isn't just primarily a -Regen tool. Probably should be your maximum if you want to keep the -END thing.

Anything below that is just too heavily resisted to matter (Looking at Time, here.)


 

Posted

Makes sense, the ramping isn't necessary since it will likely be up about every spawn. I updated it - should match Rad Emission's numbers regarding the amount anyway - gave you credit.

Love that it is thematic to the power too.


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