Feedback - Energy Orbs


Arcanaville

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tater Todd View Post
This set could work easily with different themes so there's no worry. you could be a Wizard using magical artifacts, Or a Medium/Summoner using the power of spirits, Alien Technology, Alien being made out of energy, different personalities with different abilities....I could go on! No worries!
My thought is, do the devs even make sets like that?

Sure, you can say 'Well they should!' and I say 'Well they should just make a crap ton more sets period'. But what I'm getting at is, the dev's sets seem to have a specific concept in mind and if you can do other stuff with it by recoloring/reimagining then kudos.

I'm not seeing a particular concept with it though. The whole Energy Resonance Orb thing is the theme behind the look but the mechanics don't actually line up with anything...you've got orbs that heal, orbs that harm, orbs that make sound waves, orbs that shield, orbs that empower/shield...not sure what these orbs are *made* of but why no flame orb or sword orb or gravity orb?

Since this seems to have gotten so much attention, perhaps focus thought on the theme and concept? If it's magic/chi/alien tech, there are bound to be mechanics focused on that theme that could be used to sell that theme (like if it's magic/chi, perhaps none of the buff effects actually affect the caster but instead, the caster gets [insert mechanic that powers the caster up in some way] for casting *any* orbs...which actually limits the solo performance of the set a bit more easily but makes it very strong in teams)

Or if it's summoning/artifact use, the effects could be cast from a pet that you 'command' which may be slighted in tactical use but will be usable while mezzed or attacking (I enjoy non-busy buff/debuff sets).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex View Post
An unrelated idea you may want to incorporate is something I envisioned for a Fate/Fortune/Luck set: have one power that rolls a "global die" on the caster (which sets random a bit on him or her). Then the nature of his or her other powers change. The character can thus potentially do a lot, but pulling up a specific buff or debuff is more difficult.
Interesting idea...not sure how it relates to orbs of energy though...I guess it could but I'm imagining a kind of 'Mystic Fortune/Tarot' buff set with that. I like the idea, with buffs being random with perhaps two powers in the that sort of buffs your chances....

Since the (de)buffs would be random, there could be varying strengths (a ToHit buff: 85% chance of +5, 44% chance of +8, a 15% chance of +10 and a 3% chance of +40) and since the chances stack, there's a chance you might get very little ToHit, a lot of ToHit and possibly other effects. The power that buffs chances comes for a time also adds foe buffs (as a kind of drawback) while the 2nd power forces better effects but with self debuffs (that might turn out very bad)...it'd be a pretty interesting set, kind of like a mini-game for the caster, manipulating fate in the back while their teammates are unaware and you're battling the consequences in their stead.


 

Posted

Well for theme I think Orb screams Magical Artifact.



 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tater Todd View Post
Well for theme I think Orb screams Magical Artifact.
Indeed. I immediately think "trinket mage." Imagine traps with a mystic feel.

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Posted

Well I'm sort of curious why the idea has gotten attention. I've read and posted lots of ideas for interesting and novel powersets that got less feedback. Why is this one different?

And now I'm wondering, if PMing Arbi Hawk with powerset ideas is actually the way to go these days...I'm still interested in a 'Bone Armor' set and have a concept solidly in mind as well as some mechanics I'm interested in (and that new Absorb mechanic would actually make the ablative armor concept even easier).

Or is it you have tighter relationship with Hawk, Jayboh? Maybe I should get you to PM the idea for me


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leo_G View Post
My thought is, do the devs even make sets like that?

Sure, you can say 'Well they should!' and I say 'Well they should just make a crap ton more sets period'. But what I'm getting at is, the dev's sets seem to have a specific concept in mind and if you can do other stuff with it by recoloring/reimagining then kudos.

I'm not seeing a particular concept with it though. The whole Energy Resonance Orb thing is the theme behind the look but the mechanics don't actually line up with anything...you've got orbs that heal, orbs that harm, orbs that make sound waves, orbs that shield, orbs that empower/shield...not sure what these orbs are *made* of but why no flame orb or sword orb or gravity orb?

Since this seems to have gotten so much attention, perhaps focus thought on the theme and concept? If it's magic/chi/alien tech, there are bound to be mechanics focused on that theme that could be used to sell that theme (like if it's magic/chi, perhaps none of the buff effects actually affect the caster but instead, the caster gets [insert mechanic that powers the caster up in some way] for casting *any* orbs...which actually limits the solo performance of the set a bit more easily but makes it very strong in teams)

Or if it's summoning/artifact use, the effects could be cast from a pet that you 'command' which may be slighted in tactical use but will be usable while mezzed or attacking (I enjoy non-busy buff/debuff sets).
I was in reply typing when you posted this...totally didn't see this post! I think if we had to buckle down and pick a theme for this set I would like to see something magical/artifact based.

I don't think there's a lot of sets in this game let alone buff/debuff sets that unanimously scream "MAGIC!!!". I know many would disagree with me but to me the only set that has a strong magic feel to it is Demon Summoning...but Demon Summoning it's flexible enough for a person to RP it as something else if they so desire. I would love to see a player reading from a floating book to summon the pet or wielding a giant crystal ball that shimmers and shakes as blasts it's foes or summons the Orbs itself.

In fact, since I'm on that kick. I would love to see jagged crystals/stones (like the floating pillars stones in Ouro) inside of the glowing Orbs to add an even more arcane feel. Maybe Turquoise inside the Healing Orb with an eerie slow pulsing green glow, Stun Orb could use Moon Stone and it would have a soft white glow ect. I'm just throwing random stuff out there.



 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leo_G View Post
Well I'm sort of curious why the idea has gotten attention. I've read and posted lots of ideas for interesting and novel powersets that got less feedback. Why is this one different?

And now I'm wondering, if PMing Arbi Hawk with powerset ideas is actually the way to go these days...I'm still interested in a 'Bone Armor' set and have a concept solidly in mind as well as some mechanics I'm interested in (and that new Absorb mechanic would actually make the ablative armor concept even easier).

Or is it you have tighter relationship with Hawk, Jayboh? Maybe I should get you to PM the idea for me
He might of PM'd the Devs. Arbiter Hawk, Zwill and Synapse are pretty awesome about giving feedback and answering questions via PM. Now I'm not saying "EVERYONE! BOMBARD THEM WITH EVERYTHINGZ!!!" but they take time out of their busy Shedjewl :P to reply...and I respect that.



 

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Originally Posted by JayboH View Post
Yeah it would be. This is a buff/debuff set for MM/Corr/Defender/Controller.

Numbers are all for Defenders though, to show the best version.

I realize I am missing lots of numbers, particularly recharge and end cost - but I will leave that up to the experts.
By MM set I mean a pet set. Like the Polar orbs in Lore.


 

Posted

Looks like the other five places you posted this got mod-deleted but comments werent merged, so I will respond again.

1) I strongly dislike the theme. The powers dont bear any thematic similarity other than shapes, and that shape encroaches somewhat on FF and Sonic.

2) Do we really need another do-everything set? This set is overpowered based on even the revised numbers, and in terms of flexibility.

3) why would anyone want to play empathy or sonic or ff ever again?

I find it frustrating that this got dev attention at all, considering the limited scope of some of the older secondaries. Some of the individual ideas are ok, but this Orbs of Uberness set is just a bit much.

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Posted

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Originally Posted by Void_Huntress View Post
Playing with combat suppression in a support set?
Playing with recharge actually.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Playing with recharge actually.
Now I'm curious.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thirty-Seven View Post
As for actual feedback? If the image you posted is any indication of the graphics you intend to have paired with this set, I am most definitely on board with this idea. The powers need much better names, and a more unified theme to be successful, but the idea certainly has merit.

It is also clear that this set SCREAMS to have a pet in it. I really like the idea Arcana had of a pet that tosses around +End but is stationary a la Spectral Terror.
Yes, these are placeholder names - legal has to get involved with power names anyway. Graphic effects would naturally be up to Tunnel Rat's team, as the orbs are already 3D objects in the game they can use.


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Posted

Purely aesthetic suggestion- perhaps Rage Orb should start small and grow rapidly as it taunts, then when it explodes all the enemies hit with it have a smaller version appear somewhere on their body. Just to make it more obviously DoT


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Void_Huntress View Post
Now I'm curious.
I don't want to sidetrack JayboH's thread, so see PM.


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Posted

To address a few things:

I like the idea of actually replacing Stun Orb with Poison's Poison Trap whereas it drains end over time rather than do damage - again this is POISON'S Poison Trap. I need ideas for other effects for it though. I still sorta like the idea of making it activate via an enemy, and kinda like the short term stun/puke but I think this needs some work. Combine this with Drain Orb and within a short amount of time the endurance should be gone for many enemies - kinda like the speed of an electric control character - this would work very well with the Energy Orb theme, I think, combined with Recovery Orb.

I definitely want Recovery Orb as a level 12 rival power to the recovery portion only part of speed boost, and want it location-based. Again, only one can be active at a time per caster, but it can be up every spawn with slotting.

I am not releasing names but I have gotten feedback from multiple developers - this is all just for fun, of course, but would love it if this would stick in the back of their minds or at least take some of the key power ideas for something a year and a half down the road perhaps. I realize this is extremely likely to never happen, and there is all the silly legal mumbo jumbo probably to deal with. :P

I also want to reorganize the powers, and maybe even replace Freeze Orb with something else. Move Power Orb to an earlier spot, move Rage Orb to tier 9. I want the leveling to go smoothly for this set, unlike Trick Arrow.

Focus:

Location-based

Endurance management

Rage Orb


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Posted

idea for a theme/mechanic that would be unique

preparation (wizard/dragonball Z):

the set is overpowered, but each power has a longer than normal activation time. You don't just toss out a healing ball, you channel your essence into it, do a little dance, shout Hoduken, and then toss the ball. Ideally you would use this with a gimmick - release. Each power in the set generates a power (some could be interruptible) but does not fire it. Then you click the special release power that fires it off. So you could prepare a heal orb before combat, then release it quickly in combat. You could only have one orb prepared at a time.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Grim View Post
Purely aesthetic suggestion- perhaps Rage Orb should start small and grow rapidly as it taunts, then when it explodes all the enemies hit with it have a smaller version appear somewhere on their body. Just to make it more obviously DoT
Yes - same with Drain - an expanding orb effect like Time's.


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Posted

I could get behind this if Shield Orb and Power Orb do not effect the caster.

This somewhat steps on the toes of Thermal even then.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by newchemicals View Post
I could get behind this if Shield Orb and Power Orb do not effect the caster.

This somewhat steps on the toes of Thermal even then.
Since Healing Orb cannot be cast on oneself without a pet or teammate, I am concerned a little about mitigation for soloists. This is a location-based concept, you are expected to run in for Stun Orb, position yourself for a Recovery Orb drop, and be in range for Power Orb, and this is all intentional, partially for theme and for adding risk on purpose.

I suppose Rage and Stun can provide enough solo mitigation but Rage obviously is not going to be up every spawn without massive recharge or some downtime.

I just made several changes, part of which was lowering the buff of Shield Orb. Looking for more feedback. I also reorganized the power listing a little and think this might have better order.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tater Todd View Post
I was in reply typing when you posted this...totally didn't see this post! I think if we had to buckle down and pick a theme for this set I would like to see something magical/artifact based.

I don't think there's a lot of sets in this game let alone buff/debuff sets that unanimously scream "MAGIC!!!". I know many would disagree with me but to me the only set that has a strong magic feel to it is Demon Summoning...but Demon Summoning it's flexible enough for a person to RP it as something else if they so desire. I would love to see a player reading from a floating book to summon the pet or wielding a giant crystal ball that shimmers and shakes as blasts it's foes or summons the Orbs itself.

In fact, since I'm on that kick. I would love to see jagged crystals/stones (like the floating pillars stones in Ouro) inside of the glowing Orbs to add an even more arcane feel. Maybe Turquoise inside the Healing Orb with an eerie slow pulsing green glow, Stun Orb could use Moon Stone and it would have a soft white glow ect. I'm just throwing random stuff out there.
I'm thinking Jayboh has a specific visual in mind though, that image being orbs of energy.

That being said, I'm kind of worried the thought process behind the idea has 'colors' linked to the orbs and not actual differing visuals...like I'm seeing a green orb for the healing, a white-ish orb for the sound and stun one, a red orb for the rage exploding one...But beyond expanding orbs, no other actual visual is described...just orbs floating. This is why I had a sort of thought about having the tier 1 be an 'orb pet' that isn't targetable and the other buffs in the set being 'Power commands' where you just 'tell' the orb to cast things...like a '*points in a direction* I invoke healing! *orb flies over and radiates power around targeted ally' or '*points in a direction* Befall them with Rage! *orb flies over and starts expanding and explodes...need to resummon*'

I'm more or less asking people to figure out a theme/concept so that they can then think of a 'gimmick' around the effects and powers. Gimmick might not be the right word, but it's more or less a catch-all...the results could be a lot of things.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tater Todd View Post
He might of PM'd the Devs. Arbiter Hawk, Zwill and Synapse are pretty awesome about giving feedback and answering questions via PM. Now I'm not saying "EVERYONE! BOMBARD THEM WITH EVERYTHINGZ!!!" but they take time out of their busy Shedjewl :P to reply...and I respect that.
I have thought about PMing ideas but the way I see it, if random posters ignore the ideas, why would the devs be any different. Might as well not waste my (and their) time, right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JayboH View Post
Focus:

Location-based

Endurance management

Rage Orb
Now I think you're ignoring me, Jayboh, but speaking on the set focus:

That leaves quite a bit of room for the set's theme to simply be 'Energy Orbs' and work out a mechanic from there. If we're not speaking of energy that freezes or burns and orbs that emit sounds, that leaves the focus on 'Energy' which Rage and the Endurance orbs fill just fine. A Stun orb works too since Energy Melee does the same thing. Could have a Knockdown-field orb and an 'Entropy/Drain Orb', so that's 5 powers there. Then the shielding orb, so 6...

Quote:
Originally Posted by JayboH View Post
Since Healing Orb cannot be cast on oneself without a pet or teammate, I am concerned a little about mitigation for soloists. This is a location-based concept, you are expected to run in for Stun Orb, position yourself for a Recovery Orb drop, and be in range for Power Orb, and this is all intentional, partially for theme and for adding risk on purpose.

I suppose Rage and Stun can provide enough solo mitigation but Rage obviously is not going to be up every spawn without massive recharge or some downtime.

I just made several changes, part of which was lowering the buff of Shield Orb. Looking for more feedback. I also reorganized the power listing a little and think this might have better order.
Gimmick ahoy:

Arcane Nexus- If these orbs originate from the caster in some fashion, it is part of them and therefore they are unaffected by the orbs' effects. But focusing the orbs (or channeling them from wherever) grants you power all your own, the power that is made up of these orbs, the Nexus. For every orb you use, the caster is granted a moderate duration [30 secs?] buff to Regen, Def and Recharge. Simple use of the Street Justice combos but no finishers, you simply (de)buff to empower yourself.

Of course, just brainstorming.


 

Posted

Leo, lol just PM the Devs once in a while they don't bite...well except for Black Pebble >_> :P



 

Posted

Leo I think you missed my comments about texture/effects being different. I also never said anything about colors - naturally they could be selectable.

I like that idea you mentioned about the self-buff, but still think Shield should be PBAOE. We are talking about 20ish% resistance on a low hp character when enhanced, with epic shield options and PBU, etc. I don't think that's out of line.

That power idea you came up with - how would it be implemented? I don't think it should be a power choice, because it only affects yourself which is really against what all other buff/debuff sets do.


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Posted

More I look at this set, more it doesn't seem OP. At first glance it is, the powers are powerful. But much of it has to do with positioning and thinking, much likes traps. Really, that is what this strikes me as- magic traps. And I like that.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Grim View Post
More I look at this set, more it doesn't seem OP. At first glance it is, the powers are powerful. But much of it has to do with positioning and thinking, much likes traps. Really, that is what this strikes me as- magic traps. And I like that.
Yes, exactly - it is designed to fit every origin, if you think of Natural as focusing chi. It is also intentionally supposed to be similar to Traps and Trick Arrow in implementation as stated in the 1st post, with a different flavor.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tater Todd View Post
Leo, lol just PM the Devs once in a while they don't bite...well except for Black Pebble >_> :P
You know, I've been told by friends that I'm too dismissive/blasé (I'm a 'why should I care?' kind of guy) and should try giving a hoot...

Quote:
Originally Posted by JayboH View Post
Leo I think you missed my comments about texture/effects being different. I also never said anything about colors - naturally they could be selectable.
I was mentioning the color because that's what I perceived as being what differentiates each orb. Not literally but figuratively since I hadn't seen anything else mentioned that did. Maybe I'll go back and reread it again then.

Quote:
I like that idea you mentioned about the self-buff, but still think Shield should be PBAOE. We are talking about 20ish% resistance on a low hp character when enhanced, with epic shield options and PBU, etc. I don't think that's out of line.

That power idea you came up with - how would it be implemented? I don't think it should be a power choice, because it only affects yourself which is really against what all other buff/debuff sets do.
It was just a random-ish idea. Wouldn't require another power, it'd just be like Street Justice's combos or Defiance. But it was more-or-less a thought of 'people say it's too powerful, but drawbacks can help balance them'. If it eeks out other sets in buffing (or even just matches them) while being competent in debuffing or damage, a drawback that is unique is...the caster being immune to their own buffs. Think of it like Titan Weapon's gimmick, Momentum; TW has some really hard hitting powers and in AoE form to boot, edging out some ST sets and being great in AoE...it's overpowered until you introduce it's drawbacks of being costly on END and requiring a hit to speed up your attacks to get better DPS...but you still have to contend with the slowness and managing momentum. You gain something but lose something else in its place.

But yeah, it's just a random idea for a give-and-take gimmick.