City of Heroes: Live Forum Archive

There isn't enough Beam Rifle love!

asgard_NA

By asgard_NA,
Posted on: 2012-04-08 10:59 in Blasters

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterD View Post
Oh get over yourself. Pretty much everything you say, about anything, can basically be summarised as "I am RIGHT, don't even try to make a case or reasons about the opposite opinions."
What are you talking about? I was specifically addressing a point about the BR nuke vs. RoA and I explained my point very specifically.
Quote:
Not everyone likes archery. Not everyone wants to play a power set that basically has 2 decent attacks, one being a OP nuke that somehow got an awesome recharge.
I don't care what people "like," people are welcome to like whatever they want. 2 decent attacks is pretty lame to say... The low level blasts are basically the same as any other, Blazing Arrow is awesome, Explosive Arrow is awesome, Aim is always awesome and RoA is awesome. The only thing that makes sense to me for someone to call bad is the snipe and snipes always suck anyways.
Quote:
If the whole point of nukes is doing damage, as you say..then Overcharge doing MORE damage, makes it..you know..more damaging. Of course then you have to bring in the damage over an entire mission, since that is so related to the pure damage of a nuke..not.
What? It doesn't have enough of a damage edge to justify the over 2x base recharge. RoA will BRING MORE DAMAGE because of that. I'm sorry if you're not able to mentally make that connection but I can't be held responsible for your comprehension issues.
Quote:
Nevermind that unless your archery blaster is dead set first to a new spawn every time, and you manage to Q up RoA, wait the 5 days, then have it land, in tics, a good portion of the 'damage' required to kill said spawn will have already been done.
You realize that you can que RoA while standing in the mop-up zone of one spawn on the next spawn? That works just fine. If you build a survivable enough Blaster, you can get to the alpha strikes far enough before everyone else and play leapfrog with yourself and the rest of your team from spawn to spawn. When you solo, none of this matters anyways.
Quote:
Also..maybe consider that the thread was about BR, and people who like it. Coming in and comparing it to ONE power in archery, as a case to not use it, is just pointless.
You're crying like I just kicked your dog or something. Shut up dude, it's not attractive at all. I already mentioned BR's strengths and why I considered it to be a solid set, but I also mentioned a weakness. Sorry that pointing out a deficiency in the set hurt your wittle feelings.

 

Posted

And before people start taking things that I say out of context and attribute it to me just insulting Beam Rifle, let me say that I think it's one of the better blast sets in the game. No, I don't think the nuke is great, but the set itself in my opinion is still very awesome and balanced. The -regen gives it an advantage against tough targets. It also means that it can be reasonably paired with just about any secondary and won't have to go the extra mile to build melee survivability to take advantage of Drain Psyche- The regen debuff present in the primary attacks means that it can solo tough targets safely from range. The -regen is also an asset that will increase overall killing speeds for entire teams against AV's which is worth mentioning. Plus the BR models are all really cool looking so that definitely counts for something.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by viper_kinji View Post
I'm looking into making a Beam toon but would rather avoid going Blaster. I'm not voerly fond of the AT and try to avoid sets repeats as much as possible which leaves me with, well devices. While it would make sense, it's still 'loldevices', a set I would look at pairing with Dual Pistols for a concept first and foremost.

How is the damage of Beam Rifle on a defender (or corr I guess)? And would pairing it with Storm or Cold alleviate any kind of difference somewhat?
Actually Blue Centurion had a thread a while back about Beam Device.

After running through the numbers for beam device it seemed that you could actually get range defense very easily. Oddly enough I would have to say its is one of the secondaries I would say is okay to go with beam.

1. Why Soft Cap is Important : http://dechskaison.blogspot.com/2011...important.html
2. Limits: http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Limits
3. Attack Mechanics: http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Attack_Mechanics
4. Rule of Five: http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Rule_o...e_Law_of_Fives

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy View Post
Secondary effects are nice and everything, but you don't judge how good a christmas present is because of how much you like the wrapping. The whole point of Nukes is to do damage, and Overcharge has more than twice the base Recharge of RoA. Even with the better DPA, I would estimate that RoA does around three times the damage over the course of a mission than Overcharge does.
I have had an Archery Blaster before. Yes, BU + Aim + RoA is god-like but the delay sometimes pisses me off. The beautiful thing is you can do it out of sight. I just have to do it before people start scattering the mobs.

Now about Overcharge, yes it has much longer recharge but it comes out faster and I think it does more damage than RoA on average?

I like Overcharge a lot.

There is no doubt Archery has better aoe but Beam's ST damage owns Archery by a long mile. Each has good/bad.

What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jibikao View Post
I have had an Archery Blaster before. Yes, BU + Aim + RoA is god-like but the delay sometimes pisses me off. The beautiful thing is you can do it out of sight. I just have to do it before people start scattering the mobs.

Now about Overcharge, yes it has much longer recharge but it comes out faster and I think it does more damage than RoA on average?

I like Overcharge a lot.

There is no doubt Archery has better aoe but Beam's ST damage owns Archery by a long mile. Each has good/bad.
Nothing to disagree with here.

 

Posted

And Correction Archery has three decent attacks lol.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tater Todd View Post
Now I want to make a Beam/Mental Blaster...hrmmz
I love me some Beam Rifle! This is my relatively inexpensive range soft-capped BR/MM build. Concentration+Aim+Overcharge+Cutting Beam+Psi Scream is one sick opener.

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.954
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Magic Blaster
Primary Power Set: Beam Rifle
Secondary Power Set: Mental Manipulation
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Leaping
Ancillary Pool: Force Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Single Shot -- Thundr-Acc/Dmg:50(A), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(5), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx:50(34), Thundr-Dmg/Rchg:50(43), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(43), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(46)
Level 1: Subdual -- Thundr-Acc/Dmg:50(A), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx:50(40), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(42), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(43), Thundr-Dmg/Rchg:50(48), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(48)
Level 2: Charged Shot -- Thundr-Acc/Dmg:50(A), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx:50(37), Thundr-Dmg/Rchg:50(37), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(39), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(40), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(40)
Level 4: Cutting Beam -- Posi-Acc/Dmg:50(A), Posi-Dmg/Rng:50(31), Posi-Dmg/Rchg:50(34), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(36), Posi-Dam%:50(37), Achilles-ResDeb%:20(48)
Level 6: Disintegrate -- Thundr-Acc/Dmg:50(A), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx:50(7), Thundr-Dmg/Rchg:50(7), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(25), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(31), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(31)
Level 8: Mind Probe -- Mako-Acc/Dmg:50(A), Mako-Dmg/EndRdx:50(9), Mako-Dmg/Rchg:50(9), Mako-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg:50(21), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(23), Mako-Dam%:50(25)
Level 10: Psychic Scream -- Posi-Acc/Dmg:50(A), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx:50(11), Posi-Dmg/Rchg:50(11), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(19), Posi-Dam%:50(21)
Level 12: Lancer Shot -- Thundr-Acc/Dmg:50(A), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx:50(13), Thundr-Dmg/Rchg:50(13), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(17), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(17), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(19)
Level 14: Hover -- LkGmblr-Rchg+:25(A), LkGmblr-Def:50(15), Ksmt-ToHit+:30(15)
Level 16: Concentration -- RechRdx-I:50(A)
Level 18: Aim -- RechRdx-I:50(A)
Level 20: Drain Psyche -- RechRdx-I:50(A), Nictus-Acc/EndRdx/Heal/HP/Regen:50(50), Nictus-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg:50(50)
Level 22: Fly -- Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx:50(A), Zephyr-Travel:50(23)
Level 24: Afterburner -- Zephyr-Travel:50(A), Zephyr-ResKB:50(50)
Level 26: Piercing Beam -- Posi-Acc/Dmg:50(A), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx:50(27), Posi-Dmg/Rchg:50(27), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(29), Posi-Dam%:50(29)
Level 28: Boxing -- Empty(A)
Level 30: Tough -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+:30(A)
Level 32: Overcharge -- Posi-Acc/Dmg:50(A), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx:50(33), Posi-Dmg/Rchg:50(33), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(33), Posi-Dam%:50(34)
Level 35: Weave -- LkGmblr-Rchg+:25(A), LkGmblr-Def:50(36), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx:50(36)
Level 38: Maneuvers -- LkGmblr-Rchg+:25(A), LkGmblr-Def:50(39), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx:50(39)
Level 41: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Rchg+:25(A), LkGmblr-Def:50(42)
Level 44: Telekinetic Thrust -- Mako-Acc/Dmg:50(A), Mako-Dmg/EndRdx:50(45), Mako-Dmg/Rchg:50(45), Mako-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg:50(45), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(46), Mako-Dam%:50(46)
Level 47: Tactics -- GSFC-Build%:50(A)
Level 49: Personal Force Field -- LkGmblr-Rchg+:25(A)
Level 0: Freedom Phalanx Reserve
Level 0: Portal Jockey
Level 0: Task Force Commander
Level 0: The Atlas Medallion
Level 50: Musculature Core Paragon
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Defiance
Level 1: Sprint -- Clrty-Stlth:50(A)
Level 2: Rest -- RechRdx-I:50(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Flight-I:50(A)
Level 2: Health -- Mrcl-Rcvry+:40(A), Numna-Regen/Rcvry+:50(42)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I:50(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- P'Shift-End%:50(A), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc:50(3), P'Shift-EndMod/Rchg:50(3), P'Shift-EndMod:50(5)



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Posted

Explosive Arrow is awesome? Yeah..cause an aoe, the kbs everything in different directions..is GREAT. Um. You know, unless there is other people around. And maybe if it wasnt lollethal damage. But yeah..great..maybe compared to the other crap in the set.

I also love how THB (pity the other head apparently is empty) relates RoA being awesome to..building a survivable blaster. Because obviously that has SO much to do with the archery set itself.. Its like saying that yes, set X does in fact do damage, after you proc it out, take musc and interface, and play with 2 kins.

Also, it is hilarious how first you say there is now reason to make BR over arch, because it is a one trick pony, with a trival nuke..and NOW you saying that..no, you think it is one of the better sets and the only one that can solo a GM.. Make up your mind.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterD View Post
Explosive Arrow is awesome? Yeah..cause an aoe, the kbs everything in different directions..is GREAT. Um. You know, unless there is other people around. And maybe if it wasnt lollethal damage. But yeah..great..maybe compared to the other crap in the set.
Durka dur, the KB is why you take Mu Mastery. I 6 slot Fences for immobilize (and the set bonuses) and I'm able to keep everything locked down and -KB'd before using Explosive Arrow. It recharges in about 4 seconds for Force Feedback procs, bringing RoA up even more often. Super Strength is smashing damage, and it's the best Melee set in the game. Unless you "lolpvp" it's hardly a big deal if your primary does smashing or lethal damage.
Quote:
I also love how THB (pity the other head apparently is empty) relates RoA being awesome to..building a survivable blaster. Because obviously that has SO much to do with the archery set itself.. Its like saying that yes, set X does in fact do damage, after you proc it out, take musc and interface, and play with 2 kins.
What are you talking about? Are you talking about when I was mentioning that BR didn't have to build extra melee survivability? If you knew how to read, you would know that the reason I mentioned that is BR doesn't need to play in melee range like other Blasters would in order to take advantage of Drain Psyche. BR has ranged -regen so there's no need to build for melee durability.
Quote:
Also, it is hilarious how first you say there is now reason to make BR over arch, because it is a one trick pony, with a trival nuke..and NOW you saying that..no, you think it is one of the better sets and the only one that can solo a GM.. Make up your mind.
Yeah, I think it's one of the better blast sets, but I still don't think there's a reason to play it over Archery if you can afford an Archery/Mental Blaster. If you can't afford to layer softcapped s/l defense with a resistance PPP shield and perma Drain Psyche you'll probably get more mileage out of playing BR. In my case, I spent a crapload on my Blaster. He can already solo GM's without temps/Lore/reds/buffs so I'm not worried about BR's better ST damage, sure it might be faster against hard targets but I can still take them down so it'd be stupid to sacrifice the AOE of Archery for me.

And your reading comprehension sucks. Only one that can solo a GM? No. Only one that can solo a GM WITHOUT playing Mental Manipulation? Probably.

 

Posted

Police Chief: "There will be substantial influence for the hero that captures Frostfire, but I want him taken alive." (points accusingly at the beam rifle blaster) "NO disintegrations!"

The Bacon Compels You.

 

Posted

I'll have to check out that build I'm not a fan of /MM but I think it would mix well with Beam.

As far as Archery is concerned Rain of Arrows, Fistful of Arrows and Blazing Arrow are all pretty decent to amazing.


 

Posted

Blasters normally are hard for me to play... but I really like my low level BR/Energy. I'm only lvl 15 but it has a decent attack change, and build up already. I'm not great with numbers and spreadsheets... but this blaster feels different than others I've played. I'm only taking the non-melee powers in Energy.

I'm at loss for power pools, but so far am just fine with hasten. I guess aid self wouldn't be bad. And sort of goes with my technology theme.

My level 50 Dominators:
Madame Mindbender 50 Mind/Energy
Fly Agaric 50 Plant/Thorn
Nate Nitro 50 Fire/Psi

 

Posted

BR/EM here.

She is rangesoftcapped, has good recharge:

I love how this set plays on a blaster. BR is best with a secondary that needs no attention. So EM was the best conclusion. Had a BR/Traps corr, pimped out and all, but wasn't at all impressed by the feel of playing it. BR/EM is just like: Wrooooooooooom BAAM, whooop, drrriii piu pewpew. At range where i can't get any alphareturns. And thanks to hoverblasting i survive. Was running around getting exploration badges, when I met Paladin..i just thought, ok, let's try, and damn, he fell. Had to use greens though, because the t3 blast is still only 40 base range.

Had an Archery/MM Blaster (yeah, pimped out), and simply don't like how it plays enough to bother playing it anymore. I prefer Overcharge over RoA, it is straight forward damage, no mob-alerting, not stucked in this damn pose for years (BR gets this nice wobbeling effect).

So, yeah BR is a viable option for a blaster. Love the feel (though the lags/delayed application of damage rly are bad sometimes) of it.

So, for me, BR over Archery every single day... but well, not everybody likes pineapples either.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by plainguy View Post
Actually Blue Centurion had a thread a while back about Beam Device.

After running through the numbers for beam device it seemed that you could actually get range defense very easily. Oddly enough I would have to say its is one of the secondaries I would say is okay to go with beam.
I have no doubt it synergizes well. I just in my mind had it pegged down for a dual pistols assassin concepts that never materialized. Could be tweaked into a sharpshooter easily enough though

Ranged def on blasters/defenders/corruptors isn't hard to come by indeed. Was just wondering if BR meshed well with a mildly busy debuff set.

In any case, I'll look for BC's thread and thank you all for your input.

@Viper Kinji
Currently working on:
Turtle Snapper - SD/MA/Ice Tanker

 

Posted

I'm sure the whole RoA argument is based on solo farming where you are guaranteed to hit the mob with RoA and do the most damage. When you run on teams it doesn't work like that. I find myself struggling to get decent use out of it before the mob is wiped clean. And I'm not some guy with limited experience in archery. I have used a arch/dev since issue 8 as a pvp/farm/team/solo toon so I know the ins and outs of the set. RoA is fantastic solo or on small teams. On itrials and endgame with full teams, its very situational if you want to get the best use out of it. Beam rifles nuke is better off in those scenarios, and due to its faster animation time I bet it would outdo the damage on arch/ unless the arch/ player made it his goal to stay ahead of the team and not work with the group.

 

Posted

I have no real issue with beam rifle except my usual problem with weapon redraw in this game. I love the customizable weapons for this set however, has some great ones, but I don't like using other powers because it will cause redraw. I used the "Shock Rifle" on a mostly electon-set "TRON" costume and it is 110% awesome. It also seems that the -Regen debuff in beam rifle is the same for all ATs, making it a rather large debuff in the hands of a Blaster, with stark contrast to Blaster Sonic Blast, which debuffs 54% less than the Defender version of Sonic Blast. That right there makes a strong argument for Beam Rifle Blasters on teams, especially if they also have munitions mastery for Surveillance. Most people aren't inviting Blasters cus of their debuffs, but on TFs and Trials with their invariable end-bosses debuffs certainly speed things up, and Beam Rifle is no slouch there.

"Look, personally I just want a new issue to feature changes that don't cause a mass exodus of players..."
Issue 17: We Didn't Break Anything!
How to suck at CoX
Literally the Best Build Ever: Years in the Making

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by SmegHead View Post
I'm sure the whole RoA argument is based on solo farming where you are guaranteed to hit the mob with RoA and do the most damage. When you run on teams it doesn't work like that. I find myself struggling to get decent use out of it before the mob is wiped clean. And I'm not some guy with limited experience in archery. I have used a arch/dev since issue 8 as a pvp/farm/team/solo toon so I know the ins and outs of the set. RoA is fantastic solo or on small teams. On itrials and endgame with full teams, its very situational if you want to get the best use out of it. Beam rifles nuke is better off in those scenarios, and due to its faster animation time I bet it would outdo the damage on arch/ unless the arch/ player made it his goal to stay ahead of the team and not work with the group.
I get a lot out of RoA on iTrials. During the street sweeping/clearing phases of BAF, Lambda and Keyes, you can drop the circle on the next group while the rest of the league is dealing with the last Warwalkers in the spawn. During TPN, you can drop the circle in the middle of the room during the PO phase. During BAF's prisoner phase if you're at the South choke point you can drop the circle on the middle door before it even opens and it'll hit everything that comes out. For standard content and TF's my Blaster can Scrapperlock the opposite end of the map if he wants to and melt entire groups in record time by himself. It's not working against the group if you can handle yourself, since the goal of the group anyways is to kill all the bad guys.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy View Post
I get a lot out of RoA on iTrials. During the street sweeping/clearing phases of BAF, Lambda and Keyes, you can drop the circle on the next group while the rest of the league is dealing with the last Warwalkers in the spawn. During TPN, you can drop the circle in the middle of the room during the PO phase. During BAF's prisoner phase if you're at the South choke point you can drop the circle on the middle door before it even opens and it'll hit everything that comes out. For standard content and TF's my Blaster can Scrapperlock the opposite end of the map if he wants to and melt entire groups in record time by himself. It's not working against the group if you can handle yourself, since the goal of the group anyways is to kill all the bad guys.
I never said it doesn't work, it just doesn't work as well in teams. Not as well as the beam rifles nuke in the same scenario. Trying to time RoA for baf prisoner spawns is luck at best. I have more success spamming explosive arrow and fistful than I do firing off RoA any day during a trial. In fact trying to rely on RoA would hinder my damage in most team settings.

With that being said, I don't like beam rifle. I have one sitting at 50 that I will most likely transfer to another server to make room. On the other hand I love archery. But I see beam rifles nuke as the better choice for teams over RoA in almost every situation from my experience. Just click on the baddie and fire away. No location AoE to worry about and the animation time is faster. By the time you get your RoA off most of the mob would have already been hit by Beam Rifles nuke and cleared up by the team.