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This issue has made my Robotics MM basically unplayable. I hope they're at least looking into it. Robots and Mercs have no business in melee. If I wanted them there, I'd order them there myself. Instead, they're hijacked by the AI, and don't feel like fighting with them every second of every mission to keep them doing it.|
Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
Exactly. They stop for a couple seconds in acknowledgement, then the AI overrides the command and they go charging away.
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Please devs...I'm beggin' ya. Let's at least keep an AI fix on the table. I know you're doing your best, and I know you listen to us and implement our suggestions if they coincide with the overall design direction. I'm surprised how many of my suggestions have ended up in the game. I'm asking that this one end up there too. I can be patient. Just throw us a bone, here. Tell us you're working on it. That's all I ask. However long it takes, I'm willing to wait. I want to play my character but I can't, I just can't. =/
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"I don't want it to appear that I'm willing to settle for anything. No-one likes a zombie without standards." -UnknownSubject |
The problem is Masterminds were balanced for years around the 'bug' both before the Dev's even realized the code was messed up and the whole time after up until GR.
So it isn't that they won't fix MM pet ai, it's that the can't.
As far as the Dev's are concerned, pet ai is WAI.
It would be far to costly to re-balance over 5 years of balance passes by totally removing the messed up ai and giving MM's the true control we were always meant to have. So they have no choice but to change the internal stance from "It's a bug we're dilegently working on" to "Here's how you do that properly."
I wasn't just blowing smoke or making stuff up in the other threads. I was one of the biggest supporters for 100% MM control years back. Until I used reasoning and logic to realize what happend, (When Demons were in Beta, everything became clear.) Suffice it to say, I had to man up and roll with it at that point.
The reason why I've been so adamant about pointing this out in all the recent threads about it, as I knew they were coming, isn't because I like that the pet ai is considered WAI, but rather because I want the community to be going at this the right way, to avoid wasted energy and creativity on our part.
If we can finally realize that the Dev's no longer consider this a problem needing to be fixed, we can start to mobilize options for reversing that stance first, then move on to solutions...
*Head desk* I hope someone gets this finally. Be my guest, PM any and all Red's you want asking for clarification that pet ai is bugged. It will never come. Pet ai is WAI...
Lets figure out how to change that viewpoint first please.
Maestro Mavius - Infinity
Capt. Biohazrd - PCSAR
Talsor Tech - Talsorian Guard
Keep Calm & Chive On!
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Makes sense, but now the pet ai is no longer WAI. Pets running into the the thick of things? Not what I'm talking about.|
Originally Posted by MaestroMavius
The problem is Masterminds were balanced for years around the 'bug' both before the Dev's even realized the code was messed up and the whole time after up until GR.
So it isn't that they won't fix MM pet ai, it's that the can't. As far as the Dev's are concerned, pet ai is WAI. It would be far to costly to re-balance over 5 years of balance passes by totally removing the messed up ai and giving MM's the true control we were always meant to have. So they have no choice but to change the internal stance from "It's a bug we're dilegently working on" to "Here's how you do that properly." I wasn't just blowing smoke or making stuff up in the other threads. I was one of the biggest supporters for 100% MM control years back. Until I used reasoning and logic to realize what happend, (When Demons were in Beta, everything became clear.) Suffice it to say, I had to man up and roll with it at that point. The reason why I've been so adamant about pointing this out in all the recent threads about it, as I knew they were coming, isn't because I like that the pet ai is considered WAI, but rather because I want the community to be going at this the right way, to avoid wasted energy and creativity on our part. If we can finally realize that the Dev's no longer consider this a problem needing to be fixed, we can start to mobilize options for reversing that stance first, then move on to solutions... *Head desk* I hope someone gets this finally. Be my guest, PM any and all Red's you want asking for clarification that pet ai is bugged. It will never come. Pet ai is WAI... Lets figure out how to change that viewpoint first please. |
I am talking about the fact that pets and henchmen are now charging in to attack recently spawned enemies. Not just in Itrials. My Mastermind is near useless in the TPN trial because my henchmen desire to kill all the telepaths and citizens (unless in passive). They go after any of wade's freshly spawned minions. They also charge Siege despite him being too far away, as in my henchmen teleport back to me because they get too far away. If the devs try to pull this off as WAI, they will probably lose a whole lot of mm players until they actually decide to fix that little bit.
While it is true that you could mail a GM all day and never get clarification that it is buffed, it is also true that you will never get clarification that it is WAI. You will never get a reply of any sort, one way or the other.
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Except that theory doesn't explain why phantasms, who have no melee attacks, do the same thing. Does it?|
Originally Posted by MaestroMavius
The problem is Masterminds were balanced for years around the 'bug' both before the Dev's even realized the code was messed up and the whole time after up until GR.
So it isn't that they won't fix MM pet ai, it's that the can't. As far as the Dev's are concerned, pet ai is WAI. It would be far to costly to re-balance over 5 years of balance passes by totally removing the messed up ai and giving MM's the true control we were always meant to have. So they have no choice but to change the internal stance from "It's a bug we're dilegently working on" to "Here's how you do that properly." I wasn't just blowing smoke or making stuff up in the other threads. I was one of the biggest supporters for 100% MM control years back. Until I used reasoning and logic to realize what happend, (When Demons were in Beta, everything became clear.) Suffice it to say, I had to man up and roll with it at that point. The reason why I've been so adamant about pointing this out in all the recent threads about it, as I knew they were coming, isn't because I like that the pet ai is considered WAI, but rather because I want the community to be going at this the right way, to avoid wasted energy and creativity on our part. If we can finally realize that the Dev's no longer consider this a problem needing to be fixed, we can start to mobilize options for reversing that stance first, then move on to solutions... *Head desk* I hope someone gets this finally. Be my guest, PM any and all Red's you want asking for clarification that pet ai is bugged. It will never come. Pet ai is WAI... Lets figure out how to change that viewpoint first please. |
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Originally Posted by Delmain
Makes sense, but now the pet ai is no longer WAI. Pets running into the the thick of things? Not what I'm talking about.
I am talking about the fact that pets and henchmen are now charging in to attack recently spawned enemies. Not just in Itrials. My Mastermind is near useless in the TPN trial because my henchmen desire to kill all the telepaths and citizens (unless in passive). They go after any of wade's freshly spawned minions. They also charge Siege despite him being too far away, as in my henchmen teleport back to me because they get too far away. If the devs try to pull this off as WAI, they will probably lose a whole lot of mm players until they actually decide to fix that little bit. |
More Proof:
1. Make a new MM.
2. Go into the Tutorial.
3. Summon your pet.
4. Pet hauls *** into Shivans.
5. Put it into passive mode.
6. Pet hauls *** into Shivans.
wut.
I can't claim to know all the nuances of the code, other than its messed up. 
Yeah, the 'rage on anything that appears' bug is new and I have to imagine being investigated. I'm just refering to those that think the pets not being 100% controllable is 'bugged'.
Maestro Mavius - Infinity
Capt. Biohazrd - PCSAR
Talsor Tech - Talsorian Guard
Keep Calm & Chive On!
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Yeah. I've never had a problem with pets in passive mode doing anything but stand there. But I also haven't really been on in a couple of weeks. I always keep my passive button on my power bar (too lazy to use a key bind for it), just as a last ditch fail safe. |
Originally Posted by icemanstryketh
Except that theory doesn't explain why phantasms, who have no melee attacks, do the same thing. Does it?
This is Actually a NEW problem. More Proof: 1. Make a new MM. 2. Go into the Tutorial. 3. Summon your pet. 4. Pet hauls *** into Shivans. 5. Put it into passive mode. 6. Pet hauls *** into Shivans. wut. |
You really mean passive mode, right? Not BG mode?
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Originally Posted by Delmain
Makes sense, but now the pet ai is no longer WAI. Pets running into the the thick of things? Not what I'm talking about.
I am talking about the fact that pets and henchmen are now charging in to attack recently spawned enemies. Not just in Itrials. My Mastermind is near useless in the TPN trial because my henchmen desire to kill all the telepaths and citizens (unless in passive). They go after any of wade's freshly spawned minions. They also charge Siege despite him being too far away, as in my henchmen teleport back to me because they get too far away. If the devs try to pull this off as WAI, they will probably lose a whole lot of mm players until they actually decide to fix that little bit. |
This...
I've been playing my other characters a lot lately, and have been disregarding my (demons/time) MM. Some time ago, on a BAF, I alted to my MM, to put down some slow patches to help with the prisoner escape phase, it was there where I first caught wind of the fact that my pets were broken. As soon as NS spawned they started running all the way to the bivacs, not stopping to heed the "go to" or "heel" orders. The only thing that helped against them soloing NS was unsummoning them.
Fast forward a few days later:
A patch has gone live and once again I decide to check out my MM, hoping the pets behave a little better. I get invited to a Tin Mage TF, and start killing malta and warworks alike. Everything is fine, my minions do their killing, up till the bombs and director 11 stage. I unsummon my pets before we enter, cause we decided we wanted some of the badges. We click the glowies without any problems, and get teleported outside by a teammate, now it's time to buff up and take out the director himself. But, as soon as I summon my demonlings they enter the building director 11 is hiding in, and aggro him, thus forcing a team that wasn't ready yet to run in and make the best of the situation. (Suffice to say, we didn't get the badge from director 11)
And that's when i retired my MM, the character on which i've had a lot of fun, which was my first 50, on which i had my first purple drop, have a few T4 incarnate abilities, etc. etc. Before I22 hit i was actually thinking about sinking a lot of inf into a big respec.
I don't wanna play a buffbot with 6 unmanagable aggro generators, I want to play the general standing at the sidelines, ordering his buffed up troops around with a surgical precision.
/rant.
@Treibhireas on Defiant, Exalted and Freedom
This is straight up horse pucky. They need to fix the pet AI.
And those sucky PB drivers would do themselves some good by getting tactics and build help in the Kheld forms since they suck so bad at playing them.
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
Just hit "Heel" over and over...the green stayhereplzkthx command.
They eventually snap out of the AV rush after a few clicks and stay by your side. Works every time for me on my Demon and Thugs MM's.
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On the one I-trial i was on, i could have keeped clicking "heel", untill my mouse broke.|
Originally Posted by TheXor
Just hit "Heel" over and over...the green stayhereplzkthx command.
They eventually snap out of the AV rush after a few clicks and stay by your side. Works every time for me on my Demon and Thugs MM's. |
Also, to keep spamming the same button over and over just to hope that it will stick sometime is like using ducttape to attach the hood of your car to the rest of your car. Sure, it'll work if you keep reapplying the ducttape, but as soon as you forget about it, the hood will come off again, possibly killing you and/or everyone else in the car.
I don't want a work-around, i want a fix.
I don't mind if my ranged pets walk into melee before using their attacks, but i do mind when my pets try to solo a full map, dragging the aggro over to me and my team as soon as they die.
@Treibhireas on Defiant, Exalted and Freedom
I haven't quite had the same issue, but I have noticed that sometimes it seems like the "heel" command gets queued rather than overriding their current behavior. If I notice one of my minions chasing a runner (which is another piece of AI I think needs to be "fixed", runners may be realistic but they certainly aren't fun) and start spamming follow, heel, or even passive sometimes they still insist on getting that last attack off before they come back. Like trying to control a team of 12 year old blasters after a few Red Bull's. Luckily they haven't decided to solo an AV yet, but on an ITF one of my zombies (for reasons unbeknownst to me) decided to join a group that was clearing out one of the side pockets next to Romulus. The rest of my minions stayed put, he just kinda wandered off. And again when the pulled a second group.
My suspicion is they decided to base minion AI off of the enemy AI, so as they make changes to the generic villain/hero AI to make them more challenging for the players they also further break the behavior of MM pets. If they could at least get passive mode working and set up Bodyguard Mode so it triggers on passive+follow (for those maps where you're constantly being tagged by low/no damage debuffs from targetable enemies) it would be fine for the moment, Masterminds are really one of the more balanced classes if you don't count AI problems.
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Unfortunately while this does work for MM's it does not help the troller pets that are doing the same darn thing.
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Originally Posted by TheXor
Just hit "Heel" over and over...the green stayhereplzkthx command.
They eventually snap out of the AV rush after a few clicks and stay by your side. Works every time for me on my Demon and Thugs MM's. |
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
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Doesn't even work for MMs anymore, no matter how much you tell them otherwise, they WILL attack the ambush.
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Originally Posted by Darth_Khasei
Unfortunately while this does work for MM's it does not help the troller pets that are doing the same darn thing.
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I have stopped playing my masterminds as of this last AI bug. It is just not enjoyable on trials or TFs to have to deal with the pets. Which is a shame, since MMs are my favorite AT.
53 Bots/FF/Mace Mastermind | 53 NRG/FF/Electricity Defender | 50 Time/Dual Pistols/Soul Defender | 50 Demons/FF/Mace Mastermind | 51 Necro/Dark/Soul Mastermind | 50 Thugs/Time/Mace Mastermind | 50 Ice/Ice/Arctic Tanker | 50 Plant/Rad/Earth Controller | 50 Illusion/Trick Arrow Controller | 50 Gravity/Force Field Controller
Yes, I like Force Fields.
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Originally Posted by icemanstryketh
From a Freedom Friday in November. He kept trying to get an answer but was shrugged off. He persisted and....well...got AN answer...
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They seriously said to use the STAY command when it doesn't even work properly?
STAY actually means 'stay there if you feel like it and you're not too busy running after mobs'
This is a huge injustice against the Archetype. Is there anything we can do to get in contact with someone about this?
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I with they'd go the next step with runners, and have them despawn after they get a certain distance. |
Originally Posted by Grendar
I haven't quite had the same issue, but I have noticed that sometimes it seems like the "heel" command gets queued rather than overriding their current behavior. If I notice one of my minions chasing a runner (which is another piece of AI I think needs to be "fixed", runners may be realistic but they certainly aren't fun) and start spamming follow, heel, or even passive sometimes they still insist on getting that last attack off before they come back.
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It's just kind of silly to be rescuing a hostage, and their last captor takes off and bolts half way across the map...... but somehow they're still holding the hostage prisoner from there???
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| Like trying to control a team of 12 year old blasters after a few Red Bull's. |
IDK, what is going on but the pet AI on MM's, Trollers etc... is broken and needs to be addressed.
I suggest that we all get together and hit the next ustream sit through 55 minutes of banter and belching into the mic to get to the Q&A part, then BOMBARD them with when are you going to fix the pet AI?
How can they not know it is broken with these threads? How is it that is has not been acknowledged and worked on?
People of Pummit get some face time with these dudes and pin them down to something ffs, this is crazy.
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
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Seconded, we can't go on being ignored.
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Originally Posted by Darth_Khasei
IDK, what is going on but the pet AI on MM's, Trollers etc... is broken and needs to be addressed.
I suggest that we all get together and hit the next ustream sit through 55 minutes of banter and belching into the mic to get to the Q&A part, then BOMBARD them with when are you going to fix the pet AI? How can they not know it is broken with these threads? How is it that is has not been acknowledged and worked on? People of Pummit get some face time with these dudes and pin them down to something ffs, this is crazy. |
It does not look like the devs are going to fix the rabid dog syndrome A LOT of the pets in the game have now for a long long time if ever. Brilliant devs...just bloody brilliant.
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.