A discussion: iTrials and level shifts

You know what, I'm going to throw this out here. It's worth saying out in public.

I'll concede the numbers point. 2 will always be more than 1. And both are always more than 0. At the moment, the most we can work for is 3, and the argument for the higher-end stuff is that it's best to bring the hardest-hitting characters you can.

And you know what? I'll agree with that. If you can bring the +3s for the DD Trial, then bring them. Heck, the one time I brought a +1 for the DD, it was an ACCIDENT. I didn't even realize it was the DD that had been formed. Had I known what we were doing, I would have swapped to one of my +3s. I certainly did afterward.

I have been taking note (literally) of the iTrials that I have participated in and I have noticed that the number of flat 50s has been significantly lower than my initial reaction suggested.

I have also seen that those that bring flat 50s will often stick with that toon through several iTrials over several days, gain level shifts, and continue to bring that toon level shifted toon. For that I am appreciative.

As a test, I brought a 50+1 IO'd Electric Armor Brute to a TPN the other day and I was shocked by how much the Telepathists stacked Pacify power significantly reduced his survivability. Each [Pacify] by itself is insignificant, however when stacked 4-6 times (and taking the level difference into account) the effect is substantial. I was able to do my part -taunt the IDF away from the terminals so the technicians could be taken down- however I wasn't able to truly manage the aggro as effectively as I normally would (I face-planted more often than I care to admit).

Was I actively contributing to the success of the league? Yes: I was able to quickly move the IDF away from the terminal. Was my toon effective at doing his job? No, not really: a dead brute meant that my teammates had to manage the aggro that I generated while I hid from the IDF, scraped myself up off of the floor, or waited for the door of the hospital to open.

I brought a toon that was not truly capable of carrying his own weight and for that I feel a sense of shame.

Yeah, I think it's generally accepted that TPN on up pretty much requires level shifts to not die constantly.

I've brought non-shifted characters to the TPN and never had the issues you're describing.

But then, I was on TPNs that had people designated to kill those irritating witches, we weren't just trying to grind our way through at breakneck speed.

No no no River. Obviously, T should just sit in the corner and write out "I will not bring Useless Toons to Trials" a billion and 3.141 times. I mean that TPN, it was so easy to spot the noob Taunter. I mean, he spent so much time running back from the hospital he should have frequent ER miles. Thank goodness I was there with my 50+3 uber build Electric Armor tank, or all would have been lost.

If only there was someone that could show T how to do Trials while running unshifted toons. Someone that is an expert at it. I mean, we could all use the advice.

But, I suppose I will continue to use one of my 5 50+3 Electric Tanks to offset the noob Taunters for the more difficult trials. I think it is my role for the good of the Trial Goers to bring the best toon I can. I am just glad I have the kind of shoulder and back strength needed to haul around such fun filled toons like T's brute.

It wouldn't be so hard if T only knew what the heck he was doing most of the time. Clearly, he needs someone to show him. Anyone up to the task?

Are we STILL doing this?

We can show you clearly and empirically that you are not as effective on a flat 50 (see Trickshooter's explanation below).

I don't care how it felt...

On a TPN, a MoM, a DD, even an UG.... you ARE making it harder for everyone else on the team. You are. No matter how it feels... you are making everyone else do more because you cannot pull your share.

Personally, I am not ok with making everyone else work harder for my benefit. I would feel especially bad about it if I never ever brought a 50+3 to give SOMEONE ELSE a chance to bring a lowbie.

Speaking for myself, I haven't even brought a new 50 on an iTrial because I knew there would be tons of people bringing flat 50s along and someone had to be there to make up for them. And God knows the number of people we can count on for that is woefully small. EDIT to clarify: I haven't brought a new 50 since double XP weekend because....

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trickshooter For reference (Yay numbers!) These are the values at which your debuffs values, mez durations, and damage will function at when fighting enemies a higher level than you: +1 - 90% +2 - 80% +3 - 65% +4 - 48% +5 - 30% +6 - 15% +7 - 8% You can find out what this will look like by moving the decimal place of the percentage value to the left 2 places and multiplying this number by your debuff value, mez duration or damage value. So let's look at Blaster's Ice Bolt: At 50, this will do 62.56 damage without basic SO slotting. With SO slotting, it will do roughly 123.24 damage. Let's assume they're attacking an enemy with no Cold or Smashing Resistances. Against a +1, this will be reduced to: 110.92 Against a +2, this will be reduced to: 98.59 Against a +3, this will be reduced to: 80.12 Against a +4, this will be reduced to: 59.16 Against a +5, this will be reduced to: 36.97 Against a +6, this will be reduced to: 18.49 Against a +7, this will be reduced to: 9.86 Also, this is your base chance tohit against fighting enemies higher level than you: +1 - 65% +2 - 56% +3 - 48% +4 - 39% +5 - 30% +6 - 20% +7 - 8% To see how this would affect you in game, use this formula: Final Hit Chance = (A power's inherent accuracy * (1.0 + A power's accuracy enhancements + global accuracy bonuses)) * (Base chance tohit + (ToHit buffs - ToHit debuffs) - (Target's Defense buffs - Defense debuffs on target)) So again, we'll look at a Blaster's Ice Bolt, and assume this Blaster has no IO bonuses, has slotted 1 Accuracy SO, and the target has no Defense. Against a +1, their final chance to hit will be reduced to: 86.6% Against a +2, their final chance to hit will be reduced to: 74.6% Against a +3, their final chance to hit will be reduced to: 64% Against a +4, their final chance to hit will be reduced to: 52% Against a +5, their final chance to hit will be reduced to: 40% Against a +6, their final chance to hit will be reduced to: 26.7% Against a +7, their final chance to hit will be reduced to: 10.7%

Read my stories!

My role was simple.

Kill the psychics.

I did this with Blasters, Scrappers and Brutes.

I set them on fire, shot them, stabbed them and otherwise injured them.

I was able to do my job rather well.

For your role, you described a situation where somebody wasn't doing that job. I knowthat strategy. A breakneck grind to get the shiny at the end with no regard for real strategy beyond massive attrition.

There is a remarkably easy solution to this entire debate, based on the fact that trials during "primetime" on Protector are organized largely by one group of people, henceforth referred to as the "EGC" (which stands for Elitist Gaming Clique, a term of endearment coined one of many Protectorites who never leads trials but loves to obtrusively interject his opinion on how they should be run nonetheless).

The members of the EGC will recruit for a TPN trial. EGC members will bring general damage dealing characters who are unshifted level 50s, to complement the other unshifted fully-contributing level 50s in the trial. And then one of the non-EGC members can organize the teams, instruct and lead the trial. If T is right, the trial will fail. If Grey is right, the trial will go smoothly. Let's see who steps up.