Why not give Defenders/Corruptor melee powersets?


Aett_Thorn

 

Posted

I see the assault sets from doms more fitting...


 

Posted

Night Widows are melee/support
Banes are melee/support
fire/rad controllers are melee/support

I do think this would be better as a new AT though. Changing cones to paboe's or wider shorter cones and some other changes to the sets would make them fit better with melees.


 

Posted

I recently proposed a port of Broadsword to Defenders, with the idea of adding effects and calling it Power Sword. It's basically a cross between Broadsword and Dual Pistols.

http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showt...roadsword+defs

As for Martial Arts, I'd like to have that as a secondary for Blasters. It seems to me like it would fit there with relatively little tweaking.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn View Post
But the point you were...
No I wasn't.

I didn't articulate the thought well, you pointed it out, I corrected myself. Time to move on and not derail this guy's thread.





Quote:
Originally Posted by EricHough View Post
The point is that VEAT's are very relevant to the topic because they combine powersets that had not been combined before, much in the way the OP was asking, and do it very effectively. All VEATs are basically melee/ranged damage primaries and armor/buff secondaries with a few extra things depending on your specific VEAT and the tree they took.
No they don't. Leadership is a pool power and Khelds/scrappers with epic pools can take similar builds.

VEAT leadership teams are awesome because they ALL take leadership. Yes, it's double leadership, but it wouldn't seem so phenominal if people would stop ignoring the pool to squeeze in one more power. Imagine if a team of eight people all dropped build up (+100% damage sometimes) and all took assault (+10-15% damage all the time). Net gain for team DPS, and net gain for individual DPS. Same thing with Maneuvers, people take their last pool to get hover or CJ because they're lower end cost, but if eight people took maneuvers that would eliminate the need for a ton of +DEF in everyone's build.

You'll never see it happen. 21 or so player incarnate raid has three assault hitting me, and I'm running one of them. :/

I personally take assault on EVERY character I plan to do and try to work in Maneuvers as well. I wish more people would do the same... but now I'M derailing. ^^





Quote:
Originally Posted by EricHough View Post
Kheldians might have some abilities that qualify as group support but at best those are at a minimum. Heals are NOT the best group support ability you can have so trying to describe a PB as a support class is a huge stretch
I'm the guy who mis-spoke, not Aett, and I'm not making an arguement that PB's are melee/support.

I stated the fact that the devs have put in Khelds and in doing so they have given players a choice of two identical AT's with a small variation: One has heal/team balance, the other has self buffs/team exaggerate, and the selfish exaggerator is far more popular in my opinion and experience.


 

Posted

Essentially, the OP wants to be able to play as Tsoo Ink Men.


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Posted

'Cause we'd all die horribly charging up to Ice Mistral or Silver Mantis in an effort to "contribute".


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Posted

I have been thinking about a new AT that would cover this base
Support/Melee
Way I see it some support powers would need to be AOE controls and the Melee set's taunt/placate power should be come a strong ST control


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Umbra View Post
Is there any reason defenders and corruptors, or even dominators could not have the mellee sets like martial arts, claws; etc...?

I can see how it might be troublesome to give scrappers/tankers;etc..a ranged powerset, but mellee for defenders seems harmless.

Or am I missing something obvious?
IMO Corruptors should have been given Melee instead of ranged from the beginning to help differentiate them more from Defenders.


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Arc ID: 413575

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by VKhaun View Post
No I wasn't.

I didn't articulate the thought well, you pointed it out, I corrected myself. Time to move on and not derail this guy's thread.







No they don't. Leadership is a pool power and Khelds/scrappers with epic pools can take similar builds.

VEAT leadership teams are awesome because they ALL take leadership. Yes, it's double leadership, but it wouldn't seem so phenominal if people would stop ignoring the pool to squeeze in one more power. Imagine if a team of eight people all dropped build up (+100% damage sometimes) and all took assault (+10-15% damage all the time). Net gain for team DPS, and net gain for individual DPS. Same thing with Maneuvers, people take their last pool to get hover or CJ because they're lower end cost, but if eight people took maneuvers that would eliminate the need for a ton of +DEF in everyone's build.

You'll never see it happen. 21 or so player incarnate raid has three assault hitting me, and I'm running one of them. :/

I personally take assault on EVERY character I plan to do and try to work in Maneuvers as well. I wish more people would do the same... but now I'M derailing. ^^







I'm the guy who mis-spoke, not Aett, and I'm not making an arguement that PB's are melee/support.

I stated the fact that the devs have put in Khelds and in doing so they have given players a choice of two identical AT's with a small variation: One has heal/team balance, the other has self buffs/team exaggerate, and the selfish exaggerator is far more popular in my opinion and experience.
People skip assault because it cost a lot for so little .39 base end for as little as a 10.5 % increase to base dmg is hard to justify I decided to play around with it and specced it into my last pre i22 MM build but now I'm probably going to be swapping it back out for tactics. I also have it on my stalker but I think that's going to be gone in the next respec.


 

Posted

a support/melee I think would make a decent AT,
It could be done a couple ways,
from a Dev Perspective, a support/melee would be most attractive as a Preatorian EAT( or some other flavor of EAT),
or they could just create a brand new AT, the difference being from their perspective is how much work they want to do, even if their recycling and tweaking existing powers.

Some requirements:
Mez Protection for Self, some sets already have this, others like CM are usable on others.
-This could be done simply by making CM and other target only mez protection powers, a PBAE( either the click or toggle variety), change AM to mez protection from mez resist, or change or add powers to grant mez protection, or alternativetly a couple of other possibilities, either give them SOA style low mag status resists, or have their AT ability to self target for targeted buffs & heals

-Buffs see above

-Debuffs and control powers should be fine as is, maybe have their values tweaked

Personally I'd go with the ability to self target heals/ buffs

-Finally work out the animations so they don't clash to much, if weapon sets are used, maybe have the debuff/buff powers come from the weapon rather than the character


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tocharon View Post
a support/melee I think would make a decent AT,
It could be done a couple ways,
from a Dev Perspective, a support/melee would be most attractive as a Preatorian EAT( or some other flavor of EAT),
or they could just create a brand new AT, the difference being from their perspective is how much work they want to do, even if their recycling and tweaking existing powers.

Some requirements:
Mez Protection for Self, some sets already have this, others like CM are usable on others.
-This could be done simply by making CM and other target only mez protection powers, a PBAE( either the click or toggle variety), change AM to mez protection from mez resist, or change or add powers to grant mez protection, or alternativetly a couple of other possibilities, either give them SOA style low mag status resists, or have their AT ability to self target for targeted buffs & heals

-Buffs see above

-Debuffs and control powers should be fine as is, maybe have their values tweaked

Personally I'd go with the ability to self target heals/ buffs

-Finally work out the animations so they don't clash to much, if weapon sets are used, maybe have the debuff/buff powers come from the weapon rather than the character
This is a pretty decent idea. At least you recognize that OP is actually asking for ANOTHER AT, because no current AT is going to be changed to fit his fantasy.


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Posted

A Cimmeroran EAT would be interesting. Could be hero and villain.

immunes surgeon heals
legionarii phalanx fighting
centurions shout of command

you could make a nice melee/buff AT based on the theme


 

Posted

Some powersets would work. Kinetics and Time coming to mind here. Maybe Traps as well.

Some powersets would be the biggest example of FAIL this game has ever seen.

Have fun leveling an Empathy/Martial Arts defender. Or a Trick Arrow/Katana (redraw hell anyone?)

Ooh, how about a Force Field/Street Justice Defender? A melee powerset combined with a support set in which half of the powers are designed to push things away from you. No, that doesn't sound frustrating at all.

Can't support this one. Maybe if someone designed a new AT that is actually balanced around this concept it could possibly work. Shoehorning melee sets onto support/ranged ATs would not work well at all.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
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Posted

I have long held that one of the bigger disappointments in the game is that Corruptors were created as Blast/Support instead of Assault/Support. I understand why they were created the way they were at the time, but fast forward to now and it's regrettable for me. It would have made selecting a support character a lot more interesting and given an opportunity to see Assault as a primary instead of just a secondary as well.


 

Posted

Why not give Scrappers/Tankers ranged powersets? Because they'll no longer be scrappers/tankers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dugfromthearth View Post
Night Widows are melee/support
Banes are melee/support
fire/rad controllers are melee/support
No, they aren't. Having leadership does not make one a support character.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stone Daemon View Post
Why not give Scrappers/Tankers ranged powersets? Because they'll no longer be scrappers/tankers.

No, they aren't. Having leadership does not make one a support character.
I'm going to assume you are not talking about the fire/rad controller and are talking about the SoA. I am further going to assume you mean taking the powers in the SoA AT and not the leadership powers, or possibly taking both. So I am going to assume you know what you are talking about, and are merely calling them "leadership" so that your wrong point at least looks somewhat valid.

SoA are support characters.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by dugfromthearth View Post
I'm going to assume you are not talking about the fire/rad controller and are talking about the SoA.
Yes, I refrained from bothering with your declaration that fire/rads are melee/support because it seemed like a joke. Certainly the synergy of the powersets lets one shine in close range combat, but that does not make it melee. It does not have ONE melee attack within the powerset. The only way to pick one up is via epic power pools, which is available to any controller.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dugfromthearth View Post
I am further going to assume you mean taking the powers in the SoA AT and not the leadership powers, or possibly taking both. So I am going to assume you know what you are talking about, and are merely calling them "leadership" so that your wrong point at least looks somewhat valid.

SoA are support characters.
You did a lot of assuming and a lot of talking without actually saying anything. Are you a politician? I'd be curious to hear your definition of "support" characters, because if a SoA is a support character, then /shield scrappers must be as well.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheetatron View Post
People skip assault because it cost a lot for so little .39 base end for as little as a 10.5 % increase to base dmg is hard to justify I decided to play around with it and specced it into my last pre i22 MM build but now I'm probably going to be swapping it back out for tactics. I also have it on my stalker but I think that's going to be gone in the next respec.
You missed the point entirely...

You were thinking about when there is only you, the post was about considering the team, and that 8x10.5 is better than 8 individual build ups.

I even know several super teams that ran with stacked leadership, but the second they hit 50 and split up everyone respecs out of it.

It would take a major change in peoples thinking but would improve every incarnate trial to the point of making them too easy if everyone took the leadership pool.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stone Daemon View Post
I'd be curious to hear your definition of "support" characters, because if a SoA is a support character, then /shield scrappers must be as well.
My definition of a support character is: if you choose Support in the character selection screen and the AT is listed as a Support AT. Widows and SoA are both listed as support AT's.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by PrincessDarkstar View Post
You missed the point entirely...

You were thinking about when there is only you, the post was about considering the team, and that 8x10.5 is better than 8 individual build ups.

I even know several super teams that ran with stacked leadership, but the second they hit 50 and split up everyone respecs out of it.

It would take a major change in peoples thinking but would improve every incarnate trial to the point of making them too easy if everyone took the leadership pool.
the point is we're not all teamed, all the time and our power picks should refelct that reality


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by dugfromthearth View Post
My definition of a support character is: if you choose Support in the character selection screen and the AT is listed as a Support AT. Widows and SoA are both listed as support AT's.

Arachnos Widow:
Primary Training
Secondary Teamwork

Arachnos Soldier:
Primary Soldiers
Secondary Gadgets

Unless Paragonwiki is dead wrong I'm not so sure about all VEATs being support.


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