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Oh look, the bloody-stupid 'Forum Cartel' straw man again! Not seen that in a while!|
Originally Posted by dbuter
I love how long-term players love to piss on any suggestion they don't like.
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Eh, fine by me. I do love the hypocrisy when it comes to ideas, though. i.e. if people don't instantly agree they are clearly some evil, nay-saying forum cartel and not, y'know, going off what they remember from actual Dev comments...
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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He's just mad he's losing the argument in his CoH2 suggestion so he came here to vent. |
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
Oh look, the bloody-stupid 'Forum Cartel' straw man again! Not seen that in a while!
Eh, fine by me. I do love the hypocrisy when it comes to ideas, though. i.e. if people don't instantly agree they are clearly some evil, nay-saying forum cartel and not, y'know, going off what they remember from actual Dev comments... |
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<---Long term player, totally willing to accept a swing line that disappears into nothing!|
Originally Posted by dbuter
I love how long-term players love to piss on any suggestion they don't like.
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My actual real complaint, is I don't see how people can go "that would look stupid" then buy up the Magic Carpet.
Yup! Matter of opinion! And imo, the line going untill it's off screen, even if it's off screen for everyone who see's it, works for me!
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
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I'd like to point out that I don't like what he tried to do there either.|
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
Oh look, the bloody-stupid 'Forum Cartel' straw man again! Not seen that in a while!
Eh, fine by me. I do love the hypocrisy when it comes to ideas, though. i.e. if people don't instantly agree they are clearly some evil, nay-saying forum cartel and not, y'know, going off what they remember from actual Dev comments... |
And that I just think that what you are saying is no exactly right with what is the true situation which is more along what was recently said and I pointed out that it's not to do with that is "impossible" but the devs don't like the way it'd look, which has been a constant argument from them with certain things, even though its the way it'd look is exactly how the comics shows it always in the first place.
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I was going off what I remembered from Dev comments, which I believed was to do with mechanics. It seems I was wrong, and that's fine.|
Originally Posted by Durakken
I'd like to point out that I don't like what he tried to do there either.
And that I just think that what you are saying is no exactly right with what is the true situation which is more along what was recently said and I pointed out that it's not to do with that is "impossible" but the devs don't like the way it'd look, which has been a constant argument from them with certain things, even though its the way it'd look is exactly how the comics shows it always in the first place. |
Don't get me wrong, if they CAN add it to the game, and if it looks half decent? Great; it'll make some players happy, and that's good. If being the operative word, was my point.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Eh, I know it's often brought up but if the argument is that it looks stupid, I'd counter that I hate how I can superjump in water. No, water does not work that way. You cannot jump out of water. I might be weird but I avoid large bodies of water as my SJ characters because it really bothers me to jump on water. It looks really, really stupid. I'd rather have SJ simply not work if you hit water.
Sans the actual travel power, I like the other suggested powers for this pool.
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You are probably right. I just think that regardless of whether it is true that they said it or not it is easily shown to be not true that is impossible or it is able to be over come. |
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
I was going off what I remembered from Dev comments, which I believed was to do with mechanics. It seems I was wrong, and that's fine.
Don't get me wrong, if they CAN add it to the game, and if it looks half decent? Great; it'll make some players happy, and that's good. If being the operative word, was my point. |
They probably sad it just to shut people up about it or something.
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Originally Posted by Border_line
Eh, I know it's often brought up but if the argument is that it looks stupid, I'd counter that I hate how I can superjump in water. No, water does not work that way. You cannot jump out of water. I might be weird but I avoid large bodies of water as my SJ characters because it really bothers me to jump on water. It looks really, really stupid. I'd rather have SJ simply not work if you hit water.
Sans the actual travel power, I like the other suggested powers for this pool. |
Jumping out of water does indeed look stupid, but it's not impossible.
It is also possible to jump/skip across bodies of water if the speed and trajectory is right. Ever skip a stone across a pond? Same physics applies.
Now if the devs were to work on a Swinging power the best you could hope for is a non combat travel power like Rocket Board, Magic Carpet, and Coyote. They simply aren't going to be creating any more new combat travel powers because of the amount of work involved in the animations alone.
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Originally Posted by Clockwork O1
It requires the modification of every animation currently existing in the game to work with these movement modes.
Furthermore, it requires every new animation created in the game going forward to be created with these additional movement modes in mind, increasing the number of animations needed for every new power set, emote, etc. This is not a simple request, it is an exponential increase in time and work for every new animation that is put into the game. |
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You'd still be flat broke because you'd be operating under the flawed assumption that power customization and others were said to be "impossible" when that was never the case.
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Originally Posted by VKhaun
I've played off and on since launch, and if I had a penny for every time I've heard that about something that got put in the game would have paid for itself and it's subs.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Er, no. Fish "jump" out of water by building inertia and combining it with buoyancy.That isn't the same as human legs pushing down into it. Water just doesn't work that way. Skipping a stone is also using inertia and the resistance of a flat plane of water to skip across it, not push down into it like jumping into it is. |
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Jumping out of water does indeed look stupid, but it's not impossible.
It is also possible to jump/skip across bodies of water if the speed and trajectory is right. Ever skip a stone across a pond? Same physics applies. |
Super jump looks really dumb with regards to water, which seems to be the argument against grapple swinging. I don't care one way or another, I'm just pointing at that if your argument against it is that it looks stupid, well so does SJ in water.
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No the argument against swinging isn't just that it looks dumb. The devs have explained why they haven't made this power and said on top of it that it also looks dumb, you and others prefer to ignore the technical explanations (because you can't win that argument) and want to focus only on the "it looks dumb" comment, because that's the only part you have a snowball's chance in hell of debating because "it looks dumb" is a matter of opinion.
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Originally Posted by Border_line
Super jump looks really dumb with regards to water which seems to be the argument against grapple swinging
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Actually skipping a stone works via surface tension. The spin of the stone + the velocity of it combine with surface tension so that when a stone drops into the water never submerges, but when it snaps back it launches the stone upwards combining that with spin and velocity keeps it going forward, repeating the process till there isn't enough energy in the stone. |
Originally Posted by Border_line
Er, no. Fish "jump" out of water by building inertia and combining it with buoyancy.That isn't the same as human legs pushing down into it. Water just doesn't work that way. Skipping a stone is also using inertia and the resistance of a flat plane of water to skip across it, not push down into it like jumping into it is.
Super jump looks really dumb with regards to water, which seems to be the argument against grapple swinging. I don't care one way or another, I'm just pointing at that if your argument against it is that it looks stupid, well so does SJ in water. |
Fish work like you say...
Super jump in theory works more like a rocket where whatever force your powers are generating thrusts downward... so really super jump would work like that...
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Actually, it came back to being possible via the engine, they just don't want to because it looks dumb. At least that's what I've gotten from the many threads I've read here about this.|
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
No the argument against swinging isn't just that it looks dumb. The devs have explained why they haven't made this power and said on top of it that it also looks dumb, you and others prefer to ignore the technical explanations (because you can't win that argument) and want to focus only on the "it looks dumb" comment, because that's the only part you have a snowball's chance in hell of debating because "it looks dumb" is a matter of opinion.
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And actually, as a programmer myself who has worked with the Q3 engine, anything is possible with the engine, they just have to put the effort in to code it to do it.
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btw... just because it is needed|
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
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"In Soviet Russia, Shark jump show!"
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And that comes back to the problem that, according to the Devs, the games code after seven years+ looks a bit like, well;|
Originally Posted by Border_line
And actually, as a programmer myself who has worked with the Q3 engine, anything is possible with the engine, they just have to put the effort in to code it to do it.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Ah yes the old KittyKrusader justification. "I'm a programmer that wrote code for some other game so blah blah blah is possible". Posts like this are why the SCR was created.|
Originally Posted by Border_line
And actually, as a programmer myself who has worked with the Q3 engine, anything is possible with the engine, they just have to put the effort in to code it to do it.
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I can't help feel that there should be a if diamond at the end asking "Are you Durakken" and if yes should point to <stop>
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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Ah yes the old KittyKrusader justification. "I'm a programmer that wrote code for some other game so blah blah blah is possible". Posts like this are why the SCR was created.
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Nah. I don't think you're that bad. You can be exasperating at times, but I'm sure the same can easily be said about me. |
Originally Posted by Durakken
I can't help feel that there should be a if diamond at the end asking "Are you Durakken" and if yes should point to <stop>
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And unlike KittyKrusader you have been known to admit you were wrong. I can personally confirm that from a few of our old SGU discussions.
I've been working on misc projects maintaining ancient "unworkable" code on an assortment of platforms for over a decade. "You haven't seen the code" isn't a reason to say something isn't possible. It's completely possible, the quality of the code just determines how long it will take to implement. Anything can be done in code that you can imagine. How do you think game engines get "updated"? How do other engines manage it? It's just the fact that time has been spent to implement it. That's where "new game engines" come from. It's just a previous version that has had extra bits added in.
The FAQ states that CoX uses a custom internally developed engine. The code is all known to the devs here. Making the required modifications shouldn't be that difficult for the devs. Grapple hooks are relatively easy to implement given that it's been in the original Unreal and Q3 engines that predate CoX. Now, I'll grant that it's possible the code is a complete mess and difficult to work with, though I wouldn't insult the devs in that way, but your argument of "you haven't seen the code so STFU" is really ignorant of coding and it's not appreciated to try to marginalize my point by stating something that seems like magic to you as being not possible.
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Let's see what we have here.|
Originally Posted by Border_line
I've been working on misc projects maintaining ancient "unworkable" code on an assortment of platforms for over a decade. "You haven't seen the code" isn't a reason to say something isn't possible. It's completely possible, the quality of the code just determines how long it will take to implement. Anything can be done in code that you can imagine. How do you think game engines get "updated"? How do other engines manage it? It's just the fact that time has been spent to implement it. That's where "new game engines" come from. It's just a previous version that has had extra bits added in.
The FAQ states that CoX uses a custom internally developed engine. The code is all known to the devs here. Making the required modifications shouldn't be that difficult for the devs. Grapple hooks are relatively easy to implement given that it's been in the original Unreal and Q3 engines that predate CoX. Now, I'll grant that it's possible the code is a complete mess and difficult to work with, though I wouldn't insult the devs in that way, but your argument of "you haven't seen the code so STFU" is really ignorant of coding and it's not appreciated to try to marginalize my point by stating something that seems like magic to you as being not possible. |
More "blah blah blah" about about their programming skills in other games which have nothing to do with CoH. Then the typical declarations "shouldn't be that difficult" and "relatively easy to implement" followed up with a false accusation that the poster was told to <offensive acronym to get around the censor> even tho no one in the thread on either side of the discussion has used profanity. (except of course for the person making the accusation of profanity being used)
Yep, typical KittyKrusader post. Standard Code Rant applies.
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A code and engine internally developed by Cryptic. You know, the people who used to own CoH and then sold it off to NCSoft? Not to mention changes in the Dev team and a mostly new studio since then?|
Originally Posted by Border_line
I
The FAQ states that CoX uses a custom internally developed engine. The code is all known to the devs here. Making the required modifications shouldn't be that difficult for the devs. |
So, an engine and code they didn't make, with documentation we don't have any idea whether they have or not, and you're calling US idiots for saying it's likely not easy?
...Wow.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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I'm not even going to bother trying to have a normal discussion on something with people who don't have their facts straight on this. The people at Cryptic who developed the engine are still working on this game.
When the devs state "the engine doesn't support it", they don't mean it's impossible. They mean it requires extra coding to make work.
Where did I call anyone "idiots", btw? I was the one told I didn't know what I was talking about.
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I agree that you didn't use the term idiot but I believe Techbot is referring to this statement of yours.|
Originally Posted by Border_line
Where did I call anyone "idiots", btw?
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Originally Posted by Border_line
your argument of "you haven't seen the code so STFU" is really ignorant of coding and it's not appreciated to try to marginalize my point by stating something that seems like magic to you as being not possible.
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- Lacking knowledge or awareness in general; uneducated or unsophisticated.
- Lacking knowledge, information, or awareness about something in particular: "ignorant of astronomy".
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| I was the one told I didn't know what I was talking about. |
... Since I'm going to say something on the whole idiot thing i'll say please end that whole line of discussion with your next posts so this isn't derailed...
Ignorant doesn't mean you are an idiot. It may be that you are an idiot for being ignorant of topic, but it doesn't mean necessarily that you are such if you don't know about a topic, especially a topic that is more obscure or specialized since everyone is ignorant of something. It's true that most people are not programmers or game designers or artists and they have no idea what they are talking about, thus making them ignorant of the subject.
What you are saying is that if someone doesn't know something, no matter how obscure something is it makes them an idiot and that is ridiculous. Being an idiot on the other hand is a matter of your actions and thoughts... one might even argue that thinking that being ignorant of something makes you an idiot makes you an idiot or is idiotic... side note: idiotic doesn't mean that you are an idiot either... it's of the nature of being an idiot... most things are idiotic and only after repeated idiotic actions and thoughts does it make you an idiot.
As far as the statement of not looking at the code and assessing it... That's actually a standard thing for programmers. Professional programmers as their normal business have to estimate how long something will take to do and whether they can do it without ever looking at the code or without the code existing to begin with. So on that level a programmer saying that it's not hard or wouldn't take that long is a normal and skill based thing...
Also programmers are regularly asked to implement something in a code without them knowing or understanding most of it... in fact that's the whole idea behind game programmers to begin with... All the work is separated and you're programming sections of code that has to interact with other sections that you have no idea what are in those other sections and have to work with an engine that is more or less a black box to you.
In fact, it was brought up again during this week's Freedom Fridays.
Here's the response
"Sorry, there are no plans for a grappling hook travel power. While it has been widely requested, there's no good way to make it work animation-wise; the player would either be grappling onto nothing in mid-air, or would be swinging from a floating device of some kind."
I don't even see how it's possible to believe that they couldn't make a power that made it so the animation is a character moved. That's kinda a silly notion. It's also silly to believe that there is no mapped walls because all the buildings are not just squares. The have parts you can jump onto which means that the rest has to be mapped as well... Not to mention the teleport targeting system flips horizontal and vertical so it must be looking at something.
What they said is "We don't want to do it because it wouldn't look right to us" and that's the same thing they've said about a lot of stuff that they have now put in the game and loosened their restrictions on. I admire the whole notion of don't do something if you can't do it "perfect" but at the same time there should be a little give in there...especially with this when the whole "the line goes nowhere" is well known thing for it
Now it seems that the restrictions are that the game can't move you (for some reason) and it can't be a swing animation... You know there is an easy solution to this...
Target with the teleport mechanic.
Line shoots out and attaches to a building or what not
Players has to press and hold forward to move at great speeds
If the player stops pressing forward at any point they start to fall like they were super speeding along and then the bottom dropped out but you can continue pressing forward and it will make you travel in a straight line to the "anchor point"
That alone would make a ton of people happy and would add any new mechanics to the game. Now if we wanted to actually add in the swing part which if the devs go that far they'd want to. That's just using a physics calculation because everything is already figured out at that point and it is no different than making a character drop vertically.
The problem then would be "but how would you get to a place where there is nothing to grab onto or over large water areas" you don't. You swim or walk. Or use another form of transportation like the people who want this would want to do anyways.