Slotting any accuracy in the single target hold is pretty pointless until you get to level 15 or so and then a TO's worth should be enough. The reason is that the single target hold has a base accuracy of 90% and you get beginners luck on top of it.
http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Beginn...inner.27s_Luck
I usually recommend Frankenslotting the single target hold early for cheap and mostly for rech, hold, and end.
The real reason that it seems to suck is that every thing misses 5% of the time no matter how much accuracy you have slotted. That means you'll miss 1 time in 20 casting the power. That's noticeable enough to be annoying and there's squat that you can do about it.
You are much better off slotting your attacks for accuracy since a miss here wastes endurance that you can't really afford at low levels.
To reply specifically to the title of your post....
The real trouble with Dominators is that they start and stay slot poor until the late level 30s early level 40s. Also that most Dom secondaries have a cone AoE power and a PBAoE power. These 2 type powers do not play well together and the low level Dom spends too much time bouncing around like a dervish trying to maximize AoE damage potential.
With that said it's usually (not always note, just usually) best to stay single target focused until you hit the early 30 and then respec into AoEs if you are planning to mostly solo.
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I'd imagine that most characters would have a hard time between 19 and 21 if you didn't slot any enhancements in their powers. Not just Dominators.
It costs around 200,000 inf at most, and takes all of five minutes. I'm pretty sure that you'd gain those five minutes back several times over in the speed you'd gain in making those levels.
Why are you not doing this, dug?
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I wonder what could possibly help. Hmm.
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Originally Posted by dugfromthearth
I've found my dominators struggling to solo around 19-21. I have not been using enhancements until
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3 reasons|
Originally Posted by Dr Harmony
I'd imagine that most characters would have a hard time between 19 and 21 if you didn't slot any enhancements in their powers. Not just Dominators.
It costs around 200,000 inf at most, and takes all of five minutes. I'm pretty sure that you'd gain those five minutes back several times over in the speed you'd gain in making those levels. Why are you not doing this, dug? |
1. I had been doing a bunch of DFB which earned me SO's that I could use, so I was using those to slot. When I stopped doing DFB with new characters I wasn't in the habit of buying enhancements.
2. I mostly team, in teams I don't really notice the occasional miss. Lately on Freedom it seems harder to find teams for some reason, so I solo a lot more.
3. I play tankers and doms. And with tankers the fights aren't close and take awhile anyway when solo. So the missing does not matter nearly as much. With dominators (especially earth/earth) a miss makes a big difference.
This has got to be one of the silliest threads I've seen.
Your problem with doms is actually a problem with your playstyle.
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Maybe those fights wouldn't take as long if you didn't miss as much... Even with Streakbreaker and Beginner's Luck (a tohit buff that degrades until it vanishes after level 20), I like to have a least one accuracy enhancement in all powers.
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Originally Posted by dugfromthearth
3 reasons
3. I play tankers and doms. And with tankers the fights aren't close and take awhile anyway when solo. So the missing does not matter nearly as much. With dominators (especially earth/earth) a miss makes a big difference. |
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not really|
Originally Posted by ketch
Maybe those fights wouldn't take as long if you didn't miss as much... Even with Streakbreaker and Beginner's Luck (a tohit buff that degrades until it vanishes after level 20), I like to have a least one accuracy enhancement in all powers.
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if it takes 4 hits to take out an enemy, missing once and taking 5 hits is not that big of a deal
but with a dom I have one chance to hold the enemy. Missing that 25% of the time is far worse.
it is the active defense issue. The single target hold is just so much more important.
Not as much of an issue with mind and plant where you have more controls. But with earth having such long recharge in earthquake and stalagmites having such long recharge, below 22 I usually have to rely upon that one hold to carry me through the fight.
I can't think of any other AT that has that issue.
Scrappers/tankers/brutes have their defense
Stalker a bit with AS, but if it misses you can just wait and try again
blasters aren't really that dependent on one attack hitting
controllers can use their buffs/debuffs or self heal to sway the fight
defenders and corrs are not dependent on one hit
It is really just dominators that are so reliant upon that one power hitting at low levels when soloing. At least in my experience.
can you think of another AT that relies so much on one attack hitting?
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For 8 seconds, yeah. Then you can try again. Or you could use the Nemesis Staff (or any other KB/KD/KU power) to knock them down.
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Originally Posted by dugfromthearth
but with a dom I have one chance to hold the enemy. Missing that 25% of the time is far worse.
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Originally Posted by kinaki
This has got to be one of the silliest threads I've seen.
Your problem with doms is actually a problem with your playstyle. |
And that ladies and gentlemen is how we help newcomers or old players in our commnuity, instead of giving advice we have a jackass to give a pointless and meaningless comment that has no real foundation what so ever, nice to see COH evolving into this piece of **** garbage of what it is today, arrogant, selfish, sarcastic and childish player base.
How about you give some advice before you make such a mundane comment.
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It means it takes you 25% longer to reach the next enemy. A mish you could finish in 10 minutes, takes 12 and a half. It is worse for ATs with active defenses, or none at all, but the lack of accuracy slows down everyone.|
Originally Posted by dugfromthearth
not really
if it takes 4 hits to take out an enemy, missing once and taking 5 hits is not that big of a deal |
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| but with a dom I have one chance to hold the enemy. Missing that 25% of the time is far worse. |
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| it is the active defense issue. The single target hold is just so much more important. |
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| Not as much of an issue with mind and plant where you have more controls. But with earth having such long recharge in earthquake and stalagmites having such long recharge, below 22 I usually have to rely upon that one hold to carry me through the fight. |
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I can't think of any other AT that has that issue. Scrappers/tankers/brutes have their defense Stalker a bit with AS, but if it misses you can just wait and try again blasters aren't really that dependent on one attack hitting controllers can use their buffs/debuffs or self heal to sway the fight defenders and corrs are not dependent on one hit It is really just dominators that are so reliant upon that one power hitting at low levels when soloing. At least in my experience. can you think of another AT that relies so much on one attack hitting? |
let me try to explain again
my problem with the dominator is that I am not slotting enhancements as I said in my OP
but that is not nearly as big an issue with any other AT
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Yes, it really is. It is actually sometimes WORSE on other ATs. Ever try to Tank level 21 enemies with no slotting? It's tough, trust me.|
Originally Posted by dugfromthearth
let me try to explain again
my problem with the dominator is that I am not slotting enhancements as I said in my OP but that is not nearly as big an issue with any other AT |
Try to Stalk at level 21 with no enhancements slotted. You miss with Assassin's Strike and you either have to sit around for a bit or try one of your other attacks. If you use on of your other attacks, prepare to Scrap it out, because the enemies will see you whether you hit or miss.
Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
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You make these reaction type threads every few days knowing you will get a bunch of attention. |
Originally Posted by dugfromthearth
let me try to explain again
my problem with the dominator is that I am not slotting enhancements as I said in my OP but that is not nearly as big an issue with any other AT |
All AT's do better with enhancements Doms are NOT a special case, but I am beginning to wonder if you are with these types of threads.
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
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a solo tanker has no trouble tanking at lvl 21 with no enhancements. |
Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn
Yes, it really is. It is actually sometimes WORSE on other ATs. Ever try to Tank level 21 enemies with no slotting? It's tough, trust me.
Try to Stalk at level 21 with no enhancements slotted. You miss with Assassin's Strike and you either have to sit around for a bit or try one of your other attacks. If you use on of your other attacks, prepare to Scrap it out, because the enemies will see you whether you hit or miss. |
and there is a big difference between missing and having to wait 12 seconds to attack again, and missing and getting attacked right away
but I will accept that your experience is different. Maybe you find waiting 12 seconds to be worse than being defeated.
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Originally Posted by sypher_vendetta
And that ladies and gentlemen is how we help newcomers or old players in our commnuity, instead of giving advice we have a jackass to give a pointless and meaningless comment that has no real foundation what so ever, nice to see COH evolving into this piece of **** garbage of what it is today, arrogant, selfish, sarcastic and childish player base.
How about you give some advice before you make such a mundane comment. |
While the advice is given in a blunt, sort of rude manner. Its sole redeeming feature is that it's correct advice.
The problem is that this person isn't enhancing. Life's tough enough for any character in their 20's, being slot-poor and most enhancers don't do a heck of a lot yet.
Not slotting at all is just...asinine.
The correct advice here is "take the time and enhance". It makes a BIG difference in survivability.
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Missing with one power does not mean automatic defeat. Especially since your dom should have other control options (including AoE control options) by level 18.
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Originally Posted by dugfromthearth
a solo tanker has no trouble tanking at lvl 21 with no enhancements.
and there is a big difference between missing and having to wait 12 seconds to attack again, and missing and getting attacked right away but I will accept that your experience is different. Maybe you find waiting 12 seconds to be worse than being defeated. |
Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
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What is a reaction type thread? A thread with my opinion and experience about the AT?|
Originally Posted by Darth_Khasei
You make these reaction type threads every few days knowing you will get a bunch of attention.
All AT's do better with enhancements Doms are NOT a special case, but I am beginning to wonder if you are with these types of threads. |
This is actually the point of the dominator board - discussing the dominator AT.
The posts you see asking build advice are on the wrong board - they should be on the Build Workshop board (http://boards.cityofheroes.com/forumdisplay.php?f=770).
I am truly sorry if posting my opinion and experience on an internet message board troubles you. I do have a handy solution - don't read my threads and do not reply to them.
if you are going to reply, you might actually reply to what I wrote
I absolutely agree with you "All AT's do better with enhancements"
I never said they did not
my point is dom's do worse with no enhancements than other AT's when soloing, specifically they are dependent upon a single attack hitting (to hold a foe) to a much larger degree than any other AT is dependent on a single attack hitting.
The only one so dependent is stalker - and they do not aggro if AS misses so they can simply wait and try again.
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Correct, it does not mean automatic defeat. That's why I said "struggling to solo" and not defeated frequently.|
Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn
Missing with one power does not mean automatic defeat. Especially since your dom should have other control options (including AoE control options) by level 18.
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The main issue was taking a bunch of damage in a fight and then needing to rest between fights - or if rest is not recharged just stand around.
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Sorry, but you're wrong.|
Originally Posted by dugfromthearth
let me try to explain again
my problem with the dominator is that I am not slotting enhancements as I said in my OP but that is not nearly as big an issue with any other AT |
If you take a tank and don't enhance, yeah, you'll have some basic levels of defense/resist. But they're still going to be faceplanting just as often as you.
Why? They didn't enhance. So they don't have the durability to stay up in a fight. They may last a LITTLE longer than you. But that's the difference between jumping off a 50 story building and a 70 story building. You're still pate when you hit the bottom.
- or the damage output to finish the fight before they die
- or the accuracy to hit dependably
- or the endurance reduction to make sure they don't run out of endurance and drop their toggles
If you take a blaster and don't enhance, they're going to be dying just like you too. You simply can't output enough damage to finish the fight before they turn you into bug splat.
If you take a defender and don't enhance, you're going to be dying every bit as often as you will. Only they'll have no chance for control the way you would.
Again, in short. Take the time and effort to enhance. It improves your survivability all out of proportion to the enhancement values.
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Fine. Let's break this down by AT then.|
Originally Posted by dugfromthearth
let me try to explain again
my problem with the dominator is that I am not slotting enhancements as I said in my OP but that is not nearly as big an issue with any other AT |
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Originally Posted by dugfromthearth
Scrappers/tankers/brutes have their defense
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| Stalker a bit with AS, but if it misses you can just wait and try again |
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| blasters aren't really that dependent on one attack hitting |
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| controllers can use their buffs/debuffs or self heal to sway the fight |
Aside from a few early blooming secondaries (Radiation, Time, Storm, and maybe TA), soloing a controller from 1-20 is slow and tedious.
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| defenders and corrs are not dependent on one hit |
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It is really just dominators that are so reliant upon that one power hitting at low levels when soloing. At least in my experience. can you think of another AT that relies so much on one attack hitting? |
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No, a thread where the person posting has the problem not only staring them in the face, but has a massive strobe effect grabbing their attention to the problem...and still missing it.|
Originally Posted by dugfromthearth
What is a reaction type thread? A thread with my opinion and experience about the AT?
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| my point is dom's do worse with no enhancements than other AT's when soloing |
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| specifically they are dependent upon a single attack hitting (to hold a foe) to a much larger degree than any other AT is dependent on a single attack hitting. |
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I had a bit to think about what you posted and what I had posted (I have not read the posts after this).|
Originally Posted by Darth_Khasei
You make these reaction type threads every few days knowing you will get a bunch of attention.
All AT's do better with enhancements Doms are NOT a special case, but I am beginning to wonder if you are with these types of threads. |
In my mind, my thread started "the trouble with dominators is missing with your single target hold at lower levels"
I don't think that anyone can complain about the rest of my OP which was clearly my personal experience and opinion.
So I'll stick with anaylzing the first part
Now this is obviously an exaggeration calling it "the" trouble with dominators. Which might by itself be enough to provoke people. It is a fairly standard formulation, but easy enough to switch to "a trouble"
The second issue is the title vs the thread. The title was only "the trouble with dominators", requiring you to open the thread to find out more. This is a totally standard formulation - "alpha slot question" "IO set question" "grav/ice" - none of these really tell you in the title what the thread is about. You have to read the thread to find out.
But those titles are boring and non-threatening, whereas mine was not.
So I apologize for the thread title, but not the thread.
I should have titled it "a problem with dominators is missing with your single target hold at lower levels" (assuming it fits).
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My favourite Control set is Gravity - I have 5 Gravity Controllers and 2 Gravity Dominators. Missing GD on my Grav/Energy or Grav/Elec Dom was nowhere near as bad as missing GD or Transfusion on my Grav/Kin, missing GD or Sonic Siphon on my Grav/Sonic, or missing GD on my Grav/FF. Not such an issue on my Grav/Time or Grav Rad, however.|
Originally Posted by dugfromthearth
my point is dom's do worse with no enhancements than other AT's when soloing, specifically they are dependent upon a single attack hitting (to hold a foe) to a much larger degree than any other AT is dependent on a single attack hitting.
The only one so dependent is stalker - and they do not aggro if AS misses so they can simply wait and try again. |
I put it to you that Controllers have it worse than Doms (and it's still not that bad)
@Jay Leon Hart
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Zwillinger: I put on my robe and wizard hat...
Synapse: I had to resist starting my last post off with "Yo dawg!"
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Someone's going to be feeling the love with the Grav tweaks coming up eh?
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Originally Posted by JayLeonHart_EU
My favourite Control set is Gravity - I have 5 Gravity Controllers and 2 Gravity Dominators.
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is missing with your single target hold at lower levels
I've found my dominators struggling to solo around 19-21. I have not been using enhancements until 22 when I slot with IO's so I don't have to bother replacing them.
I had thought that my enjoyment of dom's later was do to getting more powers, and I think that helps - but the real problem is when I miss with my single target hold opening up a fight and have to face more foes.
so my next dominator I will slot for accuracy with DO's in the teens. I'll see how much difference that makes.