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I like the idea a lot. I thought WST did a fantastic job revitalizing neglected Task Forces.|
Originally Posted by Aura_Familia
The goal of this is to get more folks to run the other trials, instead of just BAF/SLAM all the time.
WST for the trials. Each week a different trial will give double rewards (yes that means that the harder trials will give FOUR emps every 20 hours and TWO emps every other time, during the week they are chosen as the weekly strike target). This would have ZERO affect on mid-way rewards, as we don't want folks just doing some of the trials to midway for 120 threads then quiting.  |
One of the major problems we've run into with regards to trials is that of inertia. In groups as big as leagues, players can handle just about anything that isn't so far above them that it falls under the purple patch. Fundamentally, what makes trials different and challenging is the gimmicks. Kill the AVs at the same time, Stay out of the green/pink patches, Check your temp powers for acids and grenades. Don't let time run out. Without these, it's just another brawl.
Gimmicks are hard because players don't know how they work. Learn them and they become easy. The problem is that given a choice between something hard and something easy, most people tend to go for the easy, particularly when there is a fear of failure. We did BAF and Lambda when they were hard because we had to. There was no easier alternative to get the reward. When the new trials started coming out though, the players were faced with a choice. Do the hard trial you don't understand or the easy one you've done dozens of times?
Most went with the safe road, to the point that the devs were ready to break out the nerfs just to get some variety going.
I like the WST idea because it gives an incentive to push the players in a new direction without being punitive. On servers where these new trials have been given a real chance, they're growing roots and becoming popular. On others, they hardly get a chance. Once the badgers have their shinies, that's pretty much it and it's back to BAF/Lambda.
The question is what sort of incentive to offer. We've seen extra Emps added to Keyes with limited effectiveness. I think that it needs to be a powerful incentive, one strong enough to get the players to attack a trial they have trained themselves to avoid, and therefore limited to one per character per week. I'd be willing to suggest an extra guaranteed Rare/VR reward roll. It's about on par with the WST Notice of the Well.
My hope is that by briefly putting the spotlight on a trial, you not only create a reward incentive but a brief surge of interest in that one trial alone, making it more likely to form and giving more players a chance to learn the gimmicks, removing the stigma from it in the minds of the general populace, so that when someone tries to form it for a regular run, more players are willing to consider joining up.
This is a fine idea, and I'm sure it would encourage a little more running of trials that people normally avoid from those people who fall into that category and yet are willing to do the harder trials or simply like the shinies enough.
There are going to be a subset of players, like myself, however, who see the current pace of the BAFBAFBAF (+an occasional LAM) as fine already.
They could offer a hundred components for one run of the UG, and I'm still never going to run it again, because I thought it was a horrible horrible experience.
The TPN and MoM are OK, but simply too long when compared to the BAF. And by long i mean in terms of fiddling about running into different buildings etc and avoiding hitting certain mobs as well as in time.
The Keyes is ok, but again has a bit too much fiddly faffage.
The BAF is so utterly simple, and requires me to fly over one wall and then move about 20 yards from one spot and then back again and that's it, and its current rewards are ample for a reasonable rate of iProgress, that I really can't see what the point of running any other trials is.
That's just me, though, and people like me who run trials mainly to get the rewards and not because the trials themselves are enjoyable. People who like the rewardsa AND think they're enjoyable will play a range of them, I'm sure.
But if one week out of 6 my BAFs give double rewards, awesome.
Eco.
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
[The Incarnate System is] Jack Emmert all over again, only this time it's not "1 hero = 3 white minions" it's "1 hero = 3 white rocks."
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This has been suggested before. The overall consensus being yes.
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Responding to the bolded: True.|
Originally Posted by MrCaptainMan
This is a fine idea, and I'm sure it would encourage a little more running of trials that people normally avoid from those people who fall into that category and yet are willing to do the harder trials or simply like the shinies enough.
There are going to be a subset of players, like myself, however, who see the current pace of the BAFBAFBAF (+an occasional LAM) as fine already. They could offer a hundred components for one run of the UG, and I'm still never going to run it again, because I thought it was a horrible horrible experience. The TPN and MoM are OK, but simply too long when compared to the BAF. And by long i mean in terms of fiddling about running into different buildings etc and avoiding hitting certain mobs as well as in time. The Keyes is ok, but again has a bit too much fiddly faffage. The BAF is so utterly simple, and requires me to fly over one wall and then move about 20 yards from one spot and then back again and that's it, and its current rewards are ample for a reasonable rate of iProgress, that I really can't see what the point of running any other trials is. That's just me, though, and people like me who run trials mainly to get the rewards and not because the trials themselves are enjoyable. People who like the rewardsa AND think they're enjoyable will play a range of them, I'm sure. But if one week out of 6 my BAFs give double rewards, awesome. Eco. |
It's something we're going to have to accept, that not everyone likes a gear grind or raid grind and that some folks just don't like the other trials. Nothing we can do about this.
Same as some folks just not liking PVP no matter what you do with it.
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As much as I dislike he trials, I like this suggestion a great deal.
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I like it!
Quote:
Why even run UG or MoM when the failure rates on those two trials means that I get a 50/50 chance of a reward (UGT) or zero rewards (MoM) for doing it?|
Originally Posted by Aura_Familia
The goal of this is to get more folks to run the other trials, instead of just BAF/SLAM all the time.
WST for the trials. Each week a different trial will give double rewards (yes that means that the harder trials will give FOUR emps every 20 hours and TWO emps every other time, during the week they are chosen as the weekly strike target). This would have ZERO affect on mid-way rewards, as we don't want folks just doing some of the trials to midway for 120 threads then quiting. |
I have a 49% success rate for doing UGTs (and a 100% failure rates for PUG UGT). I have a 100% failure rate for MoM Trials.
Do you honestly think that I could care if either of those gave me enough Empyrean Merits for a PVPIO recipe for success?
Increasing the reward, with a high/extreme chance of failure for the trial itself is not going to be the answer to get players doing the trials. All this suggestion would do is to get those that do run a trial to abuse it more. A increase in potential rewards does not match an increase in ACTUAL rewards.
Edit:
And it has been sort of tried by the developers. They doubled the empyrean merit reward for Keyes, they've increased the odds to get rares/very rares, and they've increased the rewards for Underground. Keyes participation is up, but only after they reduced the difficulty. Undergrounds aren't up.
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I can't stand just running BAFBAFBAFBAFBAFBAFBAFBAFBAFBAF. I want to run other stuff, which everyone inexplicably refuses to do. these trial wouldn't be so "hard" if people either knew what they were doing, or listened to those who did. Jeez. +1 ti this suggestion, althiugh perhaps the doubled reward should only be for one run of it per week.
Open Archetype Suggestion thread!, Kirsten's Epic Weapon Pools, Feudal Japan, Etc., Alignment specific Rularuu iTrials!
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Funny i see MoM, and TPN run more then the BAF, and LAM as of lat and once in awhile a UG. But I also see a SLAM run a lot what about the ppl that need the IXP to unlock that side of the tree? I did a LAM the other day where ppl had no idea how to do it considering all they did was a SLAM. But also it is funny how u said the TFs/SFs most ppl do not run, i always ran those TFs/SFs way before the WST but I have yet seen a synapse as a WST, or KHTF or even the SS TFs. DOUBLE MERITS FOR DR> Q ANYONE?
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Right with you LSK. My Hami bait! I ran the TFs all the time even before WST. Justice runs MoMs and TPNs and basically all of them equally. As far as a weekly strike target i don't agree with. Makes it strictly 50s only. No double xp from it since its 50 only. Like being +1 before i do trials that way i don't get killed with 1 hit from a Minion (exaggeration). And to give out more Emp merits more often wouldn't be good for the market (talking to those who farm for them). I like forming a Numina and having it fill in seconds :P
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Originally Posted by LSK
Funny i see MoM, and TPN run more then the BAF, and LAM as of lat and once in awhile a UG. But I also see a SLAM run a lot what about the ppl that need the IXP to unlock that side of the tree? I did a LAM the other day where ppl had no idea how to do it considering all they did was a SLAM. But also it is funny how u said the TFs/SFs most ppl do not run, i always ran those TFs/SFs way before the WST but I have yet seen a synapse as a WST, or KHTF or even the SS TFs. DOUBLE MERITS FOR DR> Q ANYONE?
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Thorns - Spines/Willpower Scrapper (1366 Badges)
Well, Id like to see more Trials put in first, so we dont repeat them so much like we do with the current TFs/SFs.
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I loathe UG simply because I do - not because I have failed it a bazillion times (I think I have failed it 3 times and been in it approx 10-12).|
Originally Posted by Snow Globe
Why even run UG or MoM when the failure rates on those two trials means that I get a 50/50 chance of a reward (UGT) or zero rewards (MoM) for doing it?
I have a 49% success rate for doing UGTs (and a 100% failure rates for PUG UGT). I have a 100% failure rate for MoM Trials. Do you honestly think that I could care if either of those gave me enough Empyrean Merits for a PVPIO recipe for success? Increasing the reward, with a high/extreme chance of failure for the trial itself is not going to be the answer to get players doing the trials. All this suggestion would do is to get those that do run a trial to abuse it more. A increase in potential rewards does not match an increase in ACTUAL rewards. Edit: And it has been sort of tried by the developers. They doubled the empyrean merit reward for Keyes, they've increased the odds to get rares/very rares, and they've increased the rewards for Underground. Keyes participation is up, but only after they reduced the difficulty. Undergrounds aren't up. |
As far as MoM goes... Apparently aside from your server...it is being ran with great success. I run MoM 4-6 times a week and have not failed in a long time. I have only ever failed one TPN (First time doing it). I actually dislike Keyes simply because of it's gimmicks and the run here..do this..run here do that...Keyes is the one trial I have been on the least. I would run Keyes more if this suggestion were implemented - at least once that week is was the WIT (Weekly ITrial). As it stands now - I have the badges from Keyes and see no reason to run it ever again.
So I support this idea and think it would help out Keyes/UG mainly as those seem to be the least ran on my servers.
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Originally Posted by Paladiamors
I love you, I Burnt the Toast!
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Quote:
What's your fail point Globey? Mother Penny or the fact that most of the league isn't at least +2? Or is it that Shalice gets to the well all too often?|
Originally Posted by Snow Globe
Why even run UG or MoM when the failure rates on those two trials means that I get a 50/50 chance of a reward (UGT) or zero rewards (MoM) for doing it?
I have a 49% success rate for doing UGTs (and a 100% failure rates for PUG UGT). I have a 100% failure rate for MoM Trials. Do you honestly think that I could care if either of those gave me enough Empyrean Merits for a PVPIO recipe for success? Increasing the reward, with a high/extreme chance of failure for the trial itself is not going to be the answer to get players doing the trials. All this suggestion would do is to get those that do run a trial to abuse it more. A increase in potential rewards does not match an increase in ACTUAL rewards. Edit: And it has been sort of tried by the developers. They doubled the empyrean merit reward for Keyes, they've increased the odds to get rares/very rares, and they've increased the rewards for Underground. Keyes participation is up, but only after they reduced the difficulty. Undergrounds aren't up. |
I've seen some MoMs fail mostly because people don't know to huddle around Mother Penny and only pound on her, having a tanker taunt one of the Vortexes every so often so she becomes vulnerable.
The Well thing is solved by having either someone with TK (blessed power) or 3-4 peeps with holds. All in all I find MoM more enjoyable and easier than TPN which I loathe for the plate spinning involved in it.
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The goal of this is to get more folks to run the other trials, instead of just BAF/SLAM all the time.
WST for the trials. Each week a different trial will give double rewards (yes that means that the harder trials will give FOUR emps every 20 hours and TWO emps every other time, during the week they are chosen as the weekly strike target). This would have ZERO affect on mid-way rewards, as we don't want folks just doing some of the trials to midway for 120 threads then quiting.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!