IIRC, the last time tweaks to the shapeshifting times was mooted, the developers said that they wanted to do it but it would take changes to the animation as it looked 'odd'.
So I guess for this issue they didn't have the resources to have the animation team rework the animations. That said, I would love to see our shapeshifting time halved so I keep hoping for now.
@Dante EU - Union Roleplayer and Altisis Victim
The Militia: Union RP Supergroup - www.themilitia.org.uk
Back burner if on the stove at all. Having said that, my PB has kind of become my new main. Its nothing like my I8 version that is for sure. 
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
If it makes you feel any better, "Sunless Mire will no longer accept tohit debuff enhancements."
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/em Monty Python "yay."|
Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy
If it makes you feel any better, "Sunless Mire will no longer accept tohit debuff enhancements."
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Dante, the animation changes are what I was referring to... I find it rather disappointing that between the I21 beta and I22's, there was somehow not time to do it. Doesn't seem like it would require an entirely new animation, but I suppose the standard code rant applies.
I also took too much hope from Second Falcon saying they were hoping for some Kheldian changes in I22 (this was in June/July before I21's open beta). I'm guessing they were able to fast track everything to I21 and that's... all she wrote at this point.
Don't get me wrong, I like that stuff happened in I21, I just find it disappointing that they STILL couldn't do the animation change a whole issue later, and that nothing else was changed. It's much like the I11 tweaks with Fiery Aura for me. They were nice, but not enough, and I hate it when they just sit and sit in need of help.
Guide: Tanking, Wall of Fire Style (Updated for I19!), and the Four Rules of Tanking
Story Arc: Belated Justice, #88003
Synopsis: Explore the fine line between justice and vengeance as you help a hero of Talos Island bring his friend's murderer to justice.
Grey Pilgrim: Fire/Fire Tanker (50), Victory
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Why is a code rant necessary? The shift TO human form is already instant. They should just give us the same animation when we leave human.|
Originally Posted by Grey Pilgrim
/em Monty Python "yay."
Dante, the animation changes are what I was referring to... I find it rather disappointing that between the I21 beta and I22's, there was somehow not time to do it. Doesn't seem like it would require an entirely new animation, but I suppose the standard code rant applies. |
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Don't get me wrong, I like that stuff happened in I21, I just find it disappointing that they STILL couldn't do the animation change a whole issue later, and that nothing else was changed. It's much like the I11 tweaks with Fiery Aura for me. They were nice, but not enough, and I hate it when they just sit and sit in need of help. |
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That's because it's not a shift to human form. It's detoggling a power.
| The shift TO human form is already instant |
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Originally Posted by Talen Lee
That's because it's not a shift to human form. It's detoggling a power.
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Whatever you want to call it. When I toggle on combat jumping, that's instant.
I'm personally not gonna play my Kheldian anymore until these changes happen.
In my head, Kheldians should be flowing, moving from 1 form to the next. They are the closest thing to shape shifters and they should be able to switch forms quickly with one toggle, for example, switching to Nova for a quick few blasts as a opening attack, then Dwarf to taunt, then human to debuff etc.
OK, simplified view, but I do think they should be more fluid and be able to change forms without the long animation. Right now it just feels clunky.
Would you guys mind having odd animations for a bit in return for the faster change?
Well, if you play through the Dream Doctor's last mission, you'll notice that Shadowstar is hovering. Don't know if it means anything, though 
I don't think it's as bad as some of you are making it out to be. Sure, there are things that need to be fixed, but the ATs are in a better shape now than they have been since they released.
though i don't use novas that much, i think pb/ws should have the ability to change from squid to dwarf WITHOUT having to go to human to do-so. if that's like that already...don't judge me >.>
You don't have to specifically detoggle the previous form, but it does detoggle automatically and then you spend two seconds posing while you wait for the change to kick in.
Personally, I've only just gotten into my Warshade, and over the past week I've gone from intending Human only, to Human with dwarf for second mire, to Tri-Form, and having now set up a build plan for tri form and respecced to match it as closely as I can this early (level 22) I find that it feels like half the mobs are down before I'm even shooting with more than my mires, although this may be because the Mire and the hold are the only things slotted in human form right now.
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A code rant is always necessary with something like this. I don't know what the code (or animation time) looks like on their end, and it's bad to assume it would not take much time. It certainly was going to take enough time during I21's beta that it had to be put off. |
Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy
Why is a code rant necessary? The shift TO human form is already instant. They should just give us the same animation when we leave human.
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I get that you'd be okay with no animation at all and a sudden change, but I would prefer something. I'm rather surprised that quickening the one we have already looks bad, but I'm willing to accept Arbiter Hawk's statement that it does look bad.
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Originally Posted by Stone Daemon
I don't think it's as bad as some of you are making it out to be. Sure, there are things that need to be fixed, but the ATs are in a better shape now than they have been since they released.
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I also hate partial improvements. Fiery Aura and Stalkers got them a long ways back, and Fiery Aura wasn't complete until I18 or so finally got the job done. Stalkers have been improved, but clearly not enough (I'm hoping the new set does the job). Why do I hate partial changes? Because no new changes happen for a LONG time, or there is a perception that the powers or powersets are now "good enough."
Good enough doesn't fly in my book. Get it done right the first time so you don't have to go back to it. That's my policy with my teaching and writing, and I don't like it anywhere else. I know that there are time constraints (hence my being okay with a little wait for the formshift animation), but overly long ones or ones that are there because things are "good enough" do not sit well with me, and they shouldn't for any designer. Keep in mind that this is a stance that Synapse and the other current devs do tend to have as well. It's not some random preference I have.
The formshift issue is a large one for how playable Kheldians and their aesthetic is. I'd say it's an even bigger problem than the two power changes Peacerbringers still need (Pulsar's anemic mez and long cast time, Solar Flare's KB). I don't care as much about the toggle issue as Two-Headed Boy does, but that's part of the flow issue that Kheldians still have, even after their improvements.
Guide: Tanking, Wall of Fire Style (Updated for I19!), and the Four Rules of Tanking
Story Arc: Belated Justice, #88003
Synopsis: Explore the fine line between justice and vengeance as you help a hero of Talos Island bring his friend's murderer to justice.
Grey Pilgrim: Fire/Fire Tanker (50), Victory
Now you know why I was so PO'd at the time. I knew that would be it. They made changes that only a select few at the higher levels could enjoy and did nada for SO builds and lower levels outside of a mediocre boost to build up that I had already numerically proven wouldn't make us competitive damage dealers.
But if you need consolation, think about this: the vast majority of Peacebringer players seem to be deliriously happy with the changes they have. I see more Peacebringers now than ever.
So
Quote:
| /em Monte Python "yay." |
The Scrappers' Guide to Dark Melee | Kheldian Binds and Strategies
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Kind of hard to be unhappy about being permanently at the dam-res cap without even taking your shields....
| But if you need consolation, think about this: the vast majority of Peacebringer players seem to be deliriously happy with the changes they have. I see more Peacebringers now than ever. |
Be well, people of CoH.
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Tell that to anyone under 38 or anyone with SO's. Besides. Warshades have been able to do that since I-9, AND they get triple the damage we do AND they get psi resistance included.
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Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
Kind of hard to be unhappy about being permanently at the dam-res cap without even taking your shields....
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The Scrappers' Guide to Dark Melee | Kheldian Binds and Strategies
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Fix'd |
Originally Posted by Grey Pilgrim
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Maybe they'll fix it soon, maybe the dev's will decide to call it finished as it is, we will see. Kheldians are perfectly playable as they are now (with a few unhappy quirks, yes), there's really no reason to get so dramatic about it, especially considering we had no hope to speak of for a buff before the last issue. Now we do. You can't really expect them to buff every aspect at once and hope it doesn't end up overpowering it, can you? This is why they buff in increments--to make sure they don't have to nerf it again, which would raise a LOT more complaints than it would from impatient people who want it all now.
The problem is that the Devs are selling shape shifting AT's for irl money that play best when you don't shape shift with them. Human Only is the ultimate standard for both Kheldians because of how seriously flawed and clunky the forms are, and that's a pretty big problem since the forms are a big part of the design. I don't think it's over the top or raging when people request a few changes to make them worth using... Especially when one of those changes was one we were promised already.
Incidentally, has anyone had the time to test whether those assinine bonuses made it into the Kheldian-specific IO set as they were originally presented?
What were they? More resistance and hit points for dwarf and more damage for nova? I think it was something like that.
If the way the current stalker changes are "meshing" with the stalker set I don't have a great deal of hope...
The Scrappers' Guide to Dark Melee | Kheldian Binds and Strategies
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They might be flawed and clunky, but they still work, is what I am saying. Unlike the comparison that was fire tanks, and their burn. That power did nothing but scatter enemies while it was in it's nerfed state, which isn't really the objective when tanking.|
Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy
The problem is that the Devs are selling shape shifting AT's for irl money that play best when you don't shape shift with them. Human Only is the ultimate standard for both Kheldians because of how seriously flawed and clunky the forms are, and that's a pretty big problem since the forms are a big part of the design. I don't think it's over the top or raging when people request a few changes to make them worth using... Especially when one of those changes was one we were promised already.
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To us min/maxers, sure, shapeshifting might not be worth it. But it still functions as it is intended to--just, you know, not as good as it should. It is certainly over the top and/or raging when people declare that they will (only now) stop playing because they felt the buff wasn't good enough, or complain that a large improvement isn't large enough.
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All true. I was specifically discussing PBs, though. In the past, there was nothing that PBs had on WSs. Nothing at all.|
Originally Posted by Smiling_Joe
Tell that to anyone under 38 or anyone with SO's. Besides. Warshades have been able to do that since I-9, AND they get triple the damage we do AND they get psi resistance included.
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Now they can have perma-capped dam-res without the need of bodies. In one on one situations, PBs win hands down. After, of course, as you point out, you get enough recharge in the build for it.
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| The problem is that the Devs are selling shape shifting AT's for irl money that play best when you don't shape shift with them. |
Be well, people of CoH.
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Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
In one on one situations, PBs win hands down. After, of course, as you point out, you get enough recharge in the build for it.
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I hate to burst your bubble, but my experience is that Human Form Warshades still win in one on one situations... Or at least mine does. Of course, not all Warshades are created equal so there is that.
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Originally Posted by Smiling_Joe
Incidentally, has anyone had the time to test whether those assinine bonuses made it into the Kheldian-specific IO set as they were originally presented?
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The only useful thing about the set is the recharge bonus, and the 10% version would conflict with my 5 purple sets. I guess if I ever feel the need for an extra 8.whatever% global recharge, that set will be the way to go.
They're making the set "very rare" and then giving Kheldians resistance bonus. News flash: Anyone who can afford to purple out their Kheldians already caps all their resists anyways. I have a serious issue with whichever genius designed this IO set.
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| To us min/maxers, sure, shapeshifting might not be worth it. But it still functions as it is intended to--just, you know, not as good as it should. It is certainly over the top and/or raging when people declare that they will (only now) stop playing because they felt the buff wasn't good enough. |
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At least we're not PVP.
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Originally Posted by Grey Pilgrim
Any words of consolation for my blues?
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Wanted: Origin centric story arcs.
If you've only played an AT once (one set combo) and "hate" it - don't give up. Roll a different combo. It may just be those sets not clicking for you.
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Ok, I'll play. Where's your warshade getting endurance, damage buffs, heals and capped dam-res from when you have no bodies to feed from?
| I hate to burst your bubble, but my experience is that Human Form Warshades still win in one on one situations... Or at least mine does. Of course, not all Warshades are created equal so there is that. |
Be well, people of CoH.
Well, I22 has cometh and... nada. *sighs* I was hoping that there was at least some animation time found for our formshift, but that was apparently too much to hope. I am extremely confused as to how this was not possible, and can't really make myself think anything other than we are under the radar again. I know the new zone and powersets are taking up time, but no time for the formshift... really?
Any words of consolation for my blues? Anyone have more energy and willing to say something on the beta forums? No one has said anything yet and we probably should. I would, but I'm feeling down about it and I'm not up for a passionate plea at this point.
Guide: Tanking, Wall of Fire Style (Updated for I19!), and the Four Rules of Tanking
Story Arc: Belated Justice, #88003
Synopsis: Explore the fine line between justice and vengeance as you help a hero of Talos Island bring his friend's murderer to justice.
Grey Pilgrim: Fire/Fire Tanker (50), Victory