Quote:
Professional is certainly the name of the game. If one is a professional, they can think through cutting criticism to see if any of that criticism is even merited (as a teacher and a writer, believe me, I know how difficult but possible that is). Certainly you prefer more positive and constructive criticism, but you can use negative criticism as well. |
Originally Posted by Smiling_Joe
Arbiter Hawk never listened to a word I said back when I was nice, so why should he start now? Nothing I said then mattered, and nothing I say now is going to matter.
Besides, it would be egotistical of me to think he or any developer was anything less than professional. Development schedules are based on professional decisions, not anything I or anyone else said that may or may not have been particularly cutting. |
I'm not exactly sure what New Dawn is reading, but if honest disappointment is cutting criticism, the words "I wish you wouldn't do that" from someone New Dawn cares about must truly cut to the bone. I'm honestly not trying to be mean with that, but I don't know how else to take these earnest posts that there is something quite negative with this overall thread. Certainly Two-Headed Boy calling New Dawn a troll is negative, but the actual comments on the state of Kheldians are at worst disappointed.
And New Dawn, this quote can be a good approach to life: "Buffs are icing because I am not jeopardized without them. Fun happens when you are free of certain things that bother you. Not a lot bothers me so any buffs would be icing." I feel much the same way about how you should react to things in life, whether it's a game or much more real. But such feelings don't hold as much water when it comes to any kind of design. A developer/designer/artist that is content to sit on their laurels and be safe is going in a bad direction.
In other words, I still enjoy playing my Peacebringer, and there is a certain truth to the goofy Monty Python song "Always Look on the Bright Side of Life." But holding to that no matter what with where Kheldians are at is just ostrich head in the sand foolishness.
"Enjoy the game, but don't just settle," for an even more TLDR version.
Guide: Tanking, Wall of Fire Style (Updated for I19!), and the Four Rules of Tanking
Story Arc: Belated Justice, #88003
Synopsis: Explore the fine line between justice and vengeance as you help a hero of Talos Island bring his friend's murderer to justice.
Grey Pilgrim: Fire/Fire Tanker (50), Victory
*sighs* We might as well leave this. I even pointed out in my previous post that calling someone a troll is the worst this thread has gotten, and I'd prefer to leave it there, so the real criticism in here doesn't get buried in real forum angst.
Guide: Tanking, Wall of Fire Style (Updated for I19!), and the Four Rules of Tanking
Story Arc: Belated Justice, #88003
Synopsis: Explore the fine line between justice and vengeance as you help a hero of Talos Island bring his friend's murderer to justice.
Grey Pilgrim: Fire/Fire Tanker (50), Victory
Quote:
Who here is qualified to decide that a developer etc is doing that?|
Originally Posted by Grey Pilgrim
A developer/designer/artist that is content to sit on their laurels and be safe is going in a bad direction.
|
No one.
Did someone say they were best qualified?
Whoever that was thinks alot of themselves without truly knowing.
For every viewpoint there is a counter argument, whether or not you see them is another thing. Some people I feel will only carry on only hearing themselves anyway.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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Stuff like this about Arbiter Hawk for one I thought was harsh, as its what you said:|
Originally Posted by Smiling_Joe
Oh, and has this thread been particularly venomous? Last time I checked I was allowed to have an opinion that disagrees with the developers.
And I do have reasons for it that I can back up. You, on the other hand seem to prefer to believe what you want. I can respect that and agree to disagree. |
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Smiling_Joe
Now where is he? That's just weak.
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Say that to someone and they may just think "Ya know what? I was gonna do it, but now I won't". (Minus the swearwords).( Edit: Maybe not in the US, I dunno.)
PvPers for a long time expressed their opinion in a barely constructive manner at all. I don't believe for a second that those PvPers got what they wanted.
I am not here to try and fall out with anyone when I say these things. I am just trying not to have to witness further. Am not gonna say no to buffs.
I hope they do WS and PB equally cos they are ballpark equal now.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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New Dawn, if you truly believe this, why on earth are you posting on the forums? No one is qualified to comment on the game but the developers, so why even talk it over? That's what this post and your others keep suggesting.|
Originally Posted by New Dawn
Who here is qualified to decide that a developer etc is doing that?
No one. Did someone say they were best qualified? Whoever that was thinks alot of themselves without truly knowing. For every viewpoint there is a counter argument, whether or not you see them is another thing. Some people I feel will only carry on only hearing themselves anyway. |
Certainly, we're obliged to make a strong argument for why powers aren't working if we want the developers to agree with us AND do something about it (there is a difference between the two).
I've already posted adequately enough in this thread as to why I am disappointed in where the changes are for Kheldians. And even if the developers would like to change things, I've also noted why it can easily feel that they are "sitting on their laurels" and not doing anything more.
For all I know, Arbiter Hawk would like to do some more things to Kheldians, but we have now way of knowing that, and the development decisions since I22 have showed that any changes to Kheldians are not as important. I've also covered why that is an issue to my mind.
The issues, as already stated numerous times, is that there were changes that said should come, and some kind of look at our powers after I21... and nothing has come of that since then. Yes, we don't KNOW that for sure, but that's just the thing, we don't know where we are. We've even had a kheldian player talk to Arbiter Hawk in person and ask him to post, and he didn't say anything.
I'm hardly one of those that thinks the devs should bow to our every whim, but a little word at this point would be more than nice and helpful, given the situation (which has been gone over more than once).
Guide: Tanking, Wall of Fire Style (Updated for I19!), and the Four Rules of Tanking
Story Arc: Belated Justice, #88003
Synopsis: Explore the fine line between justice and vengeance as you help a hero of Talos Island bring his friend's murderer to justice.
Grey Pilgrim: Fire/Fire Tanker (50), Victory
Quote:
That's not what I am suggesting at all. Comment on the game by all means. We are not qualified to talk about the developers and the reason why I replied to it was and I'll bring up the paragraph for context:|
Originally Posted by Grey Pilgrim
New Dawn, if you truly believe this, why on earth are you posting on the forums? No one is qualified to comment on the game but the developers, so why even talk it over? That's what this post and your others keep suggesting.
|
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Grey Pilgrim
And New Dawn, this quote can be a good approach to life: "Buffs are icing because I am not jeopardized without them. Fun happens when you are free of certain things that bother you. Not a lot bothers me so any buffs would be icing." I feel much the same way about how you should react to things in life, whether it's a game or much more real. But such feelings don't hold as much water when it comes to any kind of design. A developer/designer/artist that is content to sit on their laurels and be safe is going in a bad direction.
|
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by New Dawn
 |
Quote:
Harsh is a matter of debate. I called Hawk's lack of action weak, but I wasn't referring to his lack of action on buffing Kheldians. I think you can get from the context what I specifically thought was weak.|
Originally Posted by New Dawn
Stuff like this about Arbiter Hawk for one I thought was harsh, as its what you said:
It's a bit harsh I thought. |
He could respond - not to us (and certainly not to me), but at least to Pilgrim, who has been an outstanding advocate for his changes IMHO. And he doesn't even need to give some ridiculous public acknowledgement.
I had always assumed he at least communicated with reasonable people like Pilgrim via PM. By the existence of this thread, I guess not.
And that is weak. If that offends, then be offended by me and nobody else. Taking it out on the community as you suggest might be possible would also be... you guessed it.
And when I say someone's actions are weak, it doesn't mean I think they specifically are weak. I just think it's a weak decision.
And I'm aware that he plays his cards close to his chest (can we please come up with a different expression? Tired of that one). I'm sure he's still looking at Kheldians and even reading this thread. I'm through advocating for change; I'll just wait it out at this point.
I was just empathizing with someone whom I respect. (And don't you be taking that the wrong way, either! That's a statement about Grey Pilgrim and NO ONE ELSE. Geez. Interwebs r hard.)
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| I hope they do WS and PB equally cos they are ballpark equal now. |
Thus far you've brought nothing by way of actual evidence but your assurance that they're fine based on your personal impressions.
Which is, of course, your right. You're obviously happy with Kheldians as they are and I'm happy for you. Wouldn't dream of changing your mind.
But you saying that you can find no fault in them doesn't mean there's no fault to be found.
In the end, it's a far better thing to be New Dawn than Smiling Joe.
The Scrappers' Guide to Dark Melee | Kheldian Binds and Strategies
I agree that there needs to be something more done for Kheldians. Warshades are reasonably healthy and represent, to some extent, what I believe their original design was. They are effective both as Tri-Form and Human only, their Human form fills a slightly different role from their Nova/Dwarf, and the only thing holding a player back is their knowledge about the game and the AT. In that respect, a Warshade is very similar to the much better design of the VEAT. The Peacebringer, on the other hand, is an absolute mess. The new changes helped make it a more viable choice, but they did so at the cost of worsening existing issues with the disparity between Tri-Form and Human only builds on PBs - which existed, in part, because the PB Human powers are almost all copies of the powers from the forms. What the Peacebringer needs, (and the WS to a much smaller degree) is a partial redesign of the Human form powers. The shields need to be changed to defense rather than resistance or scrapped in favor of powers that are actually useful. Toggle suppression in forms needs to be introduced, or all toggles in the Kheldian powersets need to be changed to long duration (and short recharge) click buffs. There are a number of things I could keep rambling on about.
What it comes down to is, despite (and sometimes because of) the recent changes there are powers in the primary and secondary sets of the Kheldian ATs that actively work against each other and against the shapeshifting design of the AT. They need to be changed to work well together, and to allow shapeshifting to be as enticing as Human in the end game. When those changes come about, the Kheldian community will have much less to complain about, but even then voids will still show up where it doesn't make sense.
@Rorn ---- Blue Baron ---- Guardian
I'd rather the devs come in and comment when they have something to comment on.
Arbiter Hawk coming in and simply saying "the buffs are coming at a later date" would be pointlessly retarded, imo. Obviously the buffs got pushed back since there are no patch notes about buffs from the I22 patch notes. I don't need a dev to come in and tell me something I already know.
YMMV
EDIT: This thread also illustrates why the devs should NEVER give definitive time frames unless they are absolutely 100% sure that those time frames are about to be imminently met. Players will (unreasonably in my opinion) hold the devs feet to the fire when those time frames are not met . . . which explains why certain devs say nothing at all until stuff is about to be put on the beta server.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
Quote:
::shrug::|
Originally Posted by Aura_Familia
I'd rather the devs come in and comment when they have something to comment on.
Arbiter Hawk coming in and simply saying "the buffs are coming at a later date" would be pointlessly retarded, imo. Obviously the buffs got pushed back since there are no patch notes about buffs from the I22 patch notes. I don't need a dev to come in and tell me something I already know. YMMV EDIT: This thread also illustrates why the devs should NEVER give definitive time frames unless they are absolutely 100% sure that those time frames are about to be imminently met. Players will (unreasonably in my opinion) hold the devs feet to the fire when those time frames are not met . . . which explains why certain devs say nothing at all until stuff is about to be put on the beta server. |
I think this thread's rather tame, actually, especially given some of the more venomous threads I've seen with regard to certain costume packs on the paragon market.
No one is demanding that Arbiter Hawk - or anyone on the dev team - come here and make any public posts. I expressed that I thought it was lame that he didn't at least keep a private line of communication open with someone who was IMHO his biggest ally among the players, but I did so in the context of consolation. As I said up thread, I'm done advocating anything one way or the other for Peacebringers; I likely burned my bridges in the I-21 beta anyway.
And keeping an open line of communication - public or private - is never retarded. Discussion over archetype improvements in gaming forums is like wet weather in the Amazon. Whether it's done publicly or privately, letting players know for sure what's going on - especially when the expectation has already been set - is a good way to keep that discussion at least semi-constructive.
Synapse apparently replied to one private message from a tanker player, and look how buoyed the tanker forums have been.
But there again, I'm not asking Hawk to do anything.
The Scrappers' Guide to Dark Melee | Kheldian Binds and Strategies
Quote:
There's nothing wrong with saying "we are looking to buff this or that, or how the damage is on this may be adjusted".|
Originally Posted by Smiling_Joe
::shrug::
I think this thread's rather tame, actually, especially given some of the more venomous threads I've seen with regard to certain costume packs on the paragon market. No one is demanding that Arbiter Hawk - or anyone on the dev team - come here and make any public posts. I expressed that I thought it was lame that he didn't at least keep a private line of communication open with someone who was IMHO his biggest ally among the players, but I did so in the context of consolation. As I said up thread, I'm done advocating anything one way or the other for Peacebringers; I likely burned my bridges in the I-21 beta anyway. And keeping an open line of communication - public or private - is never retarded. Discussion over archetype improvements in gaming forums is like wet weather in the Amazon. Whether it's done publicly or privately, letting players know for sure what's going on - especially when the expectation has already been set - is a good way to keep that discussion at least semi-constructive. Synapse apparently replied to one private message from a tanker player, and look how buoyed the tanker forums have been. But there again, I'm not asking Hawk to do anything. |
The problem is giving TIME FRAMES. He should not have stated that it was coming with Issue 22, because then players hold them to unreasonable expectations.
EDIT: My other point is that if he has nothing to report what exactly are folks expecting him to say? In other words if no work was able to be done what is he going to tell folks publically or privately? "yeah nothing's been done yet, check back next week."
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
Quote:
The problem is twofold: first, he already gave a time frame. It was made clear in the I-21 beta that those changes were the beginning, and datamining between I-21 and I-21.5 would determnine the extent of the changes that would follow for I-21.5, with things like the formshift animations following in I-22.|
Originally Posted by Aura_Familia
There's nothing wrong with saying "we are looking to buff this or that, or how the damage is on this may be adjusted".
The problem is giving TIME FRAMES. He should not have stated that it was coming with Issue 22, because then players hold them to unreasonable expectations. EDIT: My other point is that if he has nothing to report what exactly are folks expecting him to say? In other words if no work was able to be done what is he going to tell folks publically or privately? "yeah nothing's been done yet, check back next week." |
So one stated time frame came and went without comment from the community. It's not like changes were promised at some specified point in the future. The time when the follow-up changes were expected has passed. The second time mentioned has also passed, now. No one really expects an explanation. We suspect we already know.
Second, any changes he would make were conditional on the datamining. It's entirely possible - and I'm guessing very likely - that no more changes will be coming for a long while.
Our next step as a community hinge on what that datamining revealed. Feathers ain't cheap and the tar's getting cold. We need to know, already!
...yes, I have a weird sense of humor. Obviously there's no next step, and feathers are actually quite affordable.
My point, however, is that (since he already let the cat out of the bag with regard to further changes), Some folks - not me, for I'm far too cynical - had every reason to believe there would be more changes. What would people expect him to say? I suppose he could tell us that all the changes that will be made have been made, if that's the case. But it's really not just a lack of communication that has people disappointed.
I don't blame them for being disappointed.
And describing this thread with any word stronger than that is a bit of an exaggeration.
Although I suppose I could threaten to ragequit over it.
But I don't think anyone would believe me.
...there's that weird sense of humor again.
The Scrappers' Guide to Dark Melee | Kheldian Binds and Strategies
Quote:
I sort of share this pain with my DP/Energy blaster. I do hope that DP buff is true.
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Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy
Hey, can you blame me for wanting to like my Peacebringer?
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http://www.virtueverse.net/wiki/Shadow_Mokadara
Quote:
FUNNY! |
Originally Posted by Smiling_Joe
The problem is twofold: first, he already gave a time frame. It was made clear in the I-21 beta that those changes were the beginning, and datamining between I-21 and I-21.5 would determnine the extent of the changes that would follow for I-21.5, with things like the formshift animations following in I-22.
So one stated time frame came and went without comment from the community. It's not like changes were promised at some specified point in the future. The time when the follow-up changes were expected has passed. The second time mentioned has also passed, now. No one really expects an explanation. We suspect we already know. Second, any changes he would make were conditional on the datamining. It's entirely possible - and I'm guessing very likely - that no more changes will be coming for a long while. Our next step as a community hinge on what that datamining revealed. Feathers ain't cheap and the tar's getting cold. We need to know, already! ...yes, I have a weird sense of humor. Obviously there's no next step, and feathers are actually quite affordable. My point, however, is that he already let the cat out of the bag and stated that more work would likely follow, conditional upon how kheldians fared after the first round of changes. Some folks - not me, for I'm far too cynical - had every reason to believe there would be more changes. What would people expect him to say? I suppose he could tell us that all the changes that will be made have been made, if that's the case. I don't blame them for being disappointed. And describing this thread with any word stronger than disappointed is a bit of an exaggeration. Although I suppose I could threaten to ragequit over it. But I don't think anyone would believe me. ...there's that weird sense of humor again. |
I'd assume the data-mining isn't done.
/shrug
This is the general problem with giving a time frame. There's no way to know if the schedule, data-mining, animation time will push things further along. Also now that they are ALWAYS developing between issues things like animation and powers time are at a premium. It's not like the old days where there were no .5 issues. .5 issues have been having tremendous things in them now, so the time frame he stated is a bit unrealistic now that we are in the COH FREEdom-the-market-says-"FEEEEED ME, SYMOUR"-mode.
I would say it's best he not say anything or he makes it worse. If he comes in now and says we are not done with data-mining, but look for something come Issue 23, he's just setting himself up for failure.
As I stated GOING FORWARD they really shouldn't say anything until something is about to be on beta, or they will get punished for it by the players. Players don't like to hear "things got pushed back due to unforeseen circumstances (which is the REALITY with any kind of technical development processes). What they do like to hear is "on beta right now is .. ."
Everyone's mileage may vary.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
Quote:
Nothing but sense in that. Although if he were to come in and say he needed more datamining, the LAST thing I'd expect is another deadline for him to make any changes. And in all fairness to the OP I was the one talking about Hawk not communicating. |
Originally Posted by Aura_Familia
FUNNY!
I'd assume the data-mining isn't done. /shrug This is the general problem with giving a time frame. There's no way to know if the schedule, data-mining, animation time will push things further along. Also now that they are ALWAYS developing between issues things like animation and powers time are at a premium. It's not like the old days where there were no .5 issues. .5 issues have been having tremendous things in them now, so the time frame he stated is a bit unrealistic now that we are in the COH FREEdom-the-market-says-"FEEEEED ME, SYMOUR"-mode. I would say it's best he not say anything or he makes it worse. If he comes in now and says we are not done with data-mining, but look for something come Issue 23, he's just setting himself up for failure. As I stated GOING FORWARD they really shouldn't say anything until something is about to be on beta, or they will get punished for it by the players. Players don't like to hear "things got pushed back due to unforeseen circumstances (which is the REALITY with any kind of technical development processes). What they do like to hear is "on beta right now is .. ." Everyone's mileage may vary. |
He doesn't owe us a thing in that regard (least of all me), but I am surprised that there hasn't at least been some form of communication between he and Grey Pilgrim.
The Scrappers' Guide to Dark Melee | Kheldian Binds and Strategies
Quote:
Actually I'm not. Why: Issue 22.|
Originally Posted by Smiling_Joe
Nothing but sense in that. Although if he were to come in and say he needed more datamining, the LAST thing I'd expect is another deadline for him to make any changes. And in all fairness to the OP I was the one talking about Hawk not communicating.
He doesn't owe us a thing in that regard (least of all me), but I am surprised that there hasn't at least been some form of communication between he and Grey Pilgrim. |
Though a short "Busy. Talk to you soon" from him might be in order.
Up to him, I would never dare tell an Arbiter how to do his job. I don't want an Arachnos Shiv in the back.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
Quote:
Over this past weekend, I sent a PM to Arbiter Hawk asking him a Feasibility Question for an idea I had for Kheldians ... since I had no idea if it was possible to do or not (without breaking the game in the process). And wonder of wonders, I got a response from him! |
Originally Posted by Smiling_Joe
He doesn't owe us a thing in that regard (least of all me), but I am surprised that there hasn't at least been some form of communication between he and Grey Pilgrim.
|
Turns out the idea I had is something they've kicked around internally already before I asked (ie. Great Minds Think Alike) ... and is currently Not Possible.
My query had absolutely nothing to do with this thread specifically or the issues raised in it ... but if people are looking for Data Points on whether or not Arbiter Hawk answers questions, I've gotten a response that says he does (when you ask the right sorts of questions). Mind you, the question I asked was basically a (Y/N) sort of query for "can THIS be done?" which makes it easier for Arbiter Hawk to answer without needing to write a dissertation that will eat into his work schedule (ie. The Second Measure Is Watching You...). Needless to say, I'm looking forward to talking with him again at the next Player Summit, when we can "conversate" a bit more conveniently (again).
As far as communicating with the Kheldian Community at this time is concerned, I'm thinking it would be very helpful if someone from the Powers Team or Community Team dropped by the Kheldian Forum here and let everyone know where in the development process cycle any further changes are for Kheldians, post Issue-21.5. Rather than a "where are we going?" sort of thing, giving us an update of "this is the ground we've covered" would be very good to know. Stuff like ... datamining phase is ongoing/complete ... analysis of datamining is yet to be scheduled/is ongoing/is complete ... decisions on what to do with results of analysis is (yaddee yaddie yaddah). Note that such information doesn't give us any sort of deadline for results ... nor does it tell what they're thinking ... but it DOES tell us "where in the cycle" matters stand for DOING things (if any).
Also don't forget that the work of the Powers Team doesn't exactly follow the Civilization Game Research model, of simply needing to pour enough resources into Tech Research, and eventually the next advance pops out (unfailingly). I'm sure they run into ... limitations ... of the game tech/engine all the time, where they have really great ideas for doing cool things, that just simply aren't supported by the underlying coding of how the game "works" behind the scenes. My point being that "development" of powers and abilities isn't necessarily a 100% guaranteed result ... by which I mean there are probably a lot of "blind alleys and dead ends" that the Powers Team either needs to avoid or not blunder into when they are extending the functionality of what Can Be Done, and that avoidance rate isn't necessarily 100% either. And sometimes you just don't know if an idea or approach is going to pan out or dead end until you sink some resources (I'm thinking Scheduling here) to investigate the possibilities ... which can make results feel like they're Hit Or Miss sometimes (which is generally unacceptable to a playerbase, who expect everything to just WORK).
My point here being that I'm perfectly willing to be understanding and accomodating of the Power Team's Work Cycle dynamics (as opposed to inputs, outputs, results and expectations) ... but it's really hard to be supportive when there's nothing to go on or even make inferences from. That's why I personally think that asking the question of "How far have you gotten?" is something fair to ask someone like Arbiter Hawk, with respect to Kheldian Issues ... as opposed to something like "Where do you want to go from here?" which is an entirely different line of questioning with answers that rightfully should not be revealed (for various reasons). It's the difference between looking into the Past, or looking into the Future.
In other words ... ask the right questions, and the Magic 8-ball will answer you (in 140 characters or less).
It's the end. But the moment has been prepared for ...
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A sentiment I share. Most recently, this has been demonstrated by comments about the recent base bugs (which may or may not be linked to fixing base raids). IIRC the general idea was there was code they didn't even know what it did. Someone (a dev or player, I forget which) joked that it would be easier to start bases over from scratch at this point. A second example would the aggro/taunt formula. The closest anyone has gotten to understanding that thing is the rough (and fairly complex) estimate that currently floats around the Tanker forums.|
Originally Posted by Redlynne
I'm sure they run into ... limitations ... of the game tech/engine all the time, where they have really great ideas for doing cool things, that just simply aren't supported by the underlying coding of how the game "works" behind the scenes.
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I would think that the issues facing PB development are somewhat less complex, but it can't be "easy" by any sense of the word.
@Rorn ---- Blue Baron ---- Guardian
Question. Light form costs us half our health, half our end, and doesn't protect from PSI, while the WS version only needs people around it as its only drawback.
Why don't they just include PSI resistance into Light form to make it equal to the WS variant? Both of them have a pretty steep cost, but the WS one is better due to capped PSI resistance. Khelds should be made roughly equal when it comes to resistance I'd think.
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Well, you have to keep in mind the relationship to other ATs as well. Most powersets and ATs have little or no psi protection. The times when psi resistance really makes a difference are fairly rare anyway and generally involve single hard targets. Though, Praetorian mobs are starting to change that. But generally, the times when a WS "needs" psi resistance the most will be the times when Eclipse is at its weakest. If they put psi resistance in Light Form at the same strength as the other resistances then Light Form would be in danger of *ahem* eclipsing other ATs. That said, shifting to Dwarf form has enough drawbacks that I personally think it could safely have psi resistance. That would have the added benefit of a mechanical reason to shift into Dwarf in the post-IO/Incarnate game.|
Originally Posted by Archmage MC
Question. Light form costs us half our health, half our end, and doesn't protect from PSI, while the WS version only needs people around it as its only drawback.
Why don't they just include PSI resistance into Light form to make it equal to the WS variant? Both of them have a pretty steep cost, but the WS one is better due to capped PSI resistance. Khelds should be made roughly equal when it comes to resistance I'd think. |
Regardless of what they do, I'll be happy seeing them do anything. I've always wanted to love my Khelds. The HEATs are just such a cool concept with great lore and a classic comic book feel to them. Unfortunately, they come with a couple huge headaches as well.
@Rorn ---- Blue Baron ---- Guardian
I just want to enjoy playing my PB and while the Lightform change is great it hasn't made playing my PB any more fun for me.
Maybe I am just not cut out for a PB and I should just keep enjoying my WS.
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
I am a long time fan of the kheldian ATs. Funny enough I also have long been in RP an Anti Kheldian advocate. decrying the vile parasites that steal human bodies for thier own use. Due to that it should come as no surprise that when I play either, I only play them using thier human form.
This ofcourse has important and viable logic behind my disgust with the forms.
Nova: Sure early on it can be pretty useful, those 4 blasts are decent, and being a fast flyer popping away can let you street sweep like a top gun fighter ace. But by around lvl 20 or so compared to even a half decent aoe build in any other AT, Nova loses its oomph, and is so far below the mark that we call squishy as to make them laughable.
It ofcourse compounds when you encounter Q bosses who tend to send less experianced khelds in Nova fleeing in pants wetting terror.
When you compare a nova at 20+ to any halfway competent blaster, let alone a master blaster, then Nova goes from pointless to actually being a liability on the team not worth the space they take up.
Then there is Dwarf. Dwarf is in fact even more laughable then Nova, because there is no real level range where it has ANY use. A well put together human form PB or WS is going to outsurvive a dwarf always. The DMG output from a dwarf is non existant. In an age where well made tanks can do significant damage the dwarf is just another waste of a spot.
A human form Kheldian, made well, and played well will be equal to a blaster and tanker, needs only a few good IOs to cut down on mez effects, a tray full of breakfrees, and at 50 the same oh so popular clarion incarnate power so many are flocking to.
And lets not forget the whole power of being on a team. When I am on my PB I have a single ideal team set up. Defenders as many as I can get. Be they offender, pure support, even a pure archer. Its in fact perfect because I view PB as the ideal AT for superman and iron man style power builds. With the right mix of defenders you can have your green arrow, green lantern, red tornado, raven, booster gold, and well many others you get the idea I am sure. The PB backed by 7 defenders goes into a level of power few in the game can appreciate.
WS well lol a human form WS well made and played is like a dark blaster,defender,controller, and tank in one. Just scary. I find a WS on my team going nova or dwarf they are kicked and ignored simply because they are a threat to the very existance of my sanity. its like WHYYYYY!!!!!!
thats my two inf.
sum it up by saying just drop the forms, give us toggles that when active give those forms buffs and powers as an addition to our human powers with no silly shape changing.
Quote:
A debate for another thread, perhaps, but I am absolutely convinced that is the single greatest mistake they could make with Kheldians. If they are no longer shapeshifters, they have lost their original design concept completely. I personally love the forms and the ability to shift into and out of them when needed. Shorter animation times would be great.|
Originally Posted by Demetrios Vasilikos
sum it up by saying just drop the forms, give us toggles that when active give those forms buffs and powers as an addition to our human powers with no silly shape changing.
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And here is another example of a problem facing the developers. No "fix" is going to please everyone. The i21 changes were loved by some, others see them as a dangerous precedent for human-centric buffs in the future - if any buffs come at all.
@Rorn ---- Blue Baron ---- Guardian
Buffs are icing because I am not jeopardized without them. Fun happens when you are free of certain things that bother you. Not a lot bothers me so any buffs would be icing.
Besides, it would be egotistical of me to think he or any developer was anything less than professional. Development schedules are based on professional decisions, not anything I or anyone else said that may or may not have been particularly cutting.
The Scrappers' Guide to Dark Melee | Kheldian Binds and Strategies