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It was just an example. Perhaps I should have said "downing rikti drones, runners and that teleporting coward Col. Durray."|
Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy
Are you advocating flying during BM? If so, I hereby slap you. *slap*
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And my teams tend to be filled with damage dealers. My 62 YO mother is quite bloodthirsty.
The Scrappers' Guide to Dark Melee | Kheldian Binds and Strategies
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Eh, Durray is a good example, but not because of any survivability benefit- Just because he won't freaking stay still. As for the others, Dwarf has taunt. |
Originally Posted by Smiling_Joe
It was just an example. Perhaps I should have said "downing rikti drones, runners and that teleporting coward Col. Durray."
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I don't insist on it as the be-all end-all of opening strategies, but I find it works well in some situations where nothing else I've tried does. Most notably in rooms where the mobs are too spread out to get a decently saturated Eclipse.|
Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy
I think that's a bit excessive. I have Nebulous Form in my current build after not having it for a very long time, and I've never felt the need to try to use it for an alpha strike. The best situations to use it in are against cascading defense and otherwise "oh $#!&" moments. It's nice on a human build after Stygian Return to give yourself extra time to retoggle everything, and it's awesome on the TPN trial to avoid the super-rocks being thrown by the #OccupyPraetoria protestors.
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-Morgan.
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Originally Posted by Morganite
Most notably in rooms where the mobs are too spread out to get a decently saturated Eclipse.
-Morgan. |
In a situation like that, I'll typically use Gravitic Emanation to push them together.
Never seems to work that well for me. In a group that spread out, I'll be able to get about half of the spawn in the cone, and then the other half will kill me either before or shortly after I hit Eclipse. It pretty much put me off any high-difficulty ws soloing until I read about this method.
-Morgan.
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Originally Posted by Morganite
Never seems to work that well for me. In a group that spread out, I'll be able to get about half of the spawn in the cone, and then the other half will kill me either before or shortly after I hit Eclipse. It pretty much put me off any high-difficulty ws soloing until I read about this method.
-Morgan. |
Maybe you just haven't tapped into your MFing Essence yet. Whether human, bi-form, or tri-form, there is a certain standard of harmony with oneself and ones build that must be reached in order to attain truly Zen and impeccable results from one's Warshade.
There is so much wrong with that build.
Try to limit your attacks to just 3 or 4 good ones and the rest should be either a toggle, buff, support, pet or travel power.
I play human form only and to survive 53 or higher mobs you need shields for when eclipse is not on or not enough. Mez is a big problem too so I strongly recomend the leadership pool aswell as acrobatics. For every shield you have and eclipse you can slot impervious skin 7.5% mez resist.
For most powers 5 slots is enough unless you want to add and extra unique like the mentioned impervious skin.
Not going to give to much away but if you get it right you can solo 54s
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What build?|
Originally Posted by cool_bagheera
There is so much wrong with that build.
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| Try to limit your attacks to just 3 or 4 good ones and the rest should be either a toggle, buff, support, pet or travel power. |
Travel power? The fastest travel power in the game is inherent to you.
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| I play human form only and to survive 53 or higher mobs you need shields for when eclipse is not on or not enough. |
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| Mez is a big problem too so I strongly recomend the leadership pool aswell as acrobatics. For every shield you have and eclipse you can slot impervious skin 7.5% mez resist. |
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| For most powers 5 slots is enough unless you want to add and extra unique like the mentioned impervious skin. |
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| Not going to give to much away but if you get it right you can solo 54s |
Editing to elaborate...
You obviously don't lurk here... At all. Soloing 54x8 in a general sense has been trivialized by the Warshades who post here. We've also been known to solo 54x8 Malta and Arachnos. For a while, we made an activity storm out of how often some of us were soloing high level AV's. Your "secret formula" requiring Impervious Skin IO's is a joke. You are doing it wrong. That's cool though- You're welcome to do it wrong as long as you're having fun. What's not cool is when you try to lure others into doing it wrong too.
LOL are you angry?
Maybe I just havent tapped into my MFing Essence yet.
Well maybe youre right this is advice from the IO period sorry.
Ill update for TwoHeadedBoy.
You need to survive get destiny.
You need to kill stuff get judgement.
Done
I'd say it's less about angry and more about someone passing off bad information as some kind of secret ultimate technique. I'm sorry if that bruises your ego, but TwoHeadedBoy is quite correct that much of your advice was just poor and reflects a weak understanding of the game (particularly the concepts of mez protection versus mez resistance). To build in mez resistance is a poor idea and trying to run leadership or acrobatics on a tri-form build is nearly as fruitless. These are just not good solutions - perhaps on an all human build they might have some place, but here they clearly do not.
As for taking shields for when Eclpise is "not up or not enough", well, since you can easily cap from Eclipse alone I'm not sure what 'not enough' could possibly entail, and as for 'not up', making Eclipse perma is a near-universal goal of Warshade IO builds. Even if this is 'advice from the IO period', it's not particularly sound.
Unless you can make some kind of reasonable, civil defense of any of these suggestions, you may want to just have the maturity to admit you were mistaken and leave off before you dig yourself a deeper hole here. This isn't about people attacking you, cool_bagheera, this is about people finding fault with what you said.
Iscariot's Guide to the Tri-Form Warshade, version 2.1
I'm sorry that math > your paranoid delusions, but them's the breaks -- Nethergoat
P.E.R.C. Rep for Liberty server
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Where did this come from?|
Originally Posted by cool_bagheera
You need to kill stuff get judgement.
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Someone is a bit sensitive to being told he's wrong.
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Justaris and THB did a fine job of explaining the incorrectness of this advice so I won't pile on.|
Originally Posted by cool_bagheera
There is so much wrong with that build.
Try to limit your attacks to just 3 or 4 good ones and the rest should be either a toggle, buff, support, pet or travel power. I play human form only and to survive 53 or higher mobs you need shields for when eclipse is not on or not enough. Mez is a big problem too so I strongly recomend the leadership pool aswell as acrobatics. For every shield you have and eclipse you can slot impervious skin 7.5% mez resist. For most powers 5 slots is enough unless you want to add and extra unique like the mentioned impervious skin. Not going to give to much away but if you get it right you can solo 54s |
Just read it and lol'd so figured I'd post haha.
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)
I didn't read all of posts so if this was mentione sorry. My tactic for alpha changes according to my mood and what i have in inspiration tray.
If i have one blue and one or two luck i eat lucks get on human uses stealth to get in the middle of mob,eclipse, mire, dwarf, mire, human (this is instant) quasar, eat blue, stygian circle, get fluffy's depending on my mood toggle rest on, get dwarf or get nova.
If i dont have enough blue or i am not sure if i can stealth into middle of mob than i get into dwarf walk into middle. mire, punch, punch, mire (i can perma mire in dwarf) cpntinue until there is a couple of corpse, get to human eclipse, depending on mood unchain essence or fluffy, stygian circle, kill the rest.
more unortodox method i use in a corridor is using nova and knocback aoe attack (in corridors they dont kb too much seperated) get in middle human, eclipse, mire, dwarf, mire, punch, punch, mire than same as previous one.
i need to mention i am not using any keybinds and more of a mouse player so i am changing or pressing things with either mouse or buttons (my human form powers are in second tray and in first tray at first 4 is nova and last 6 is dwarf powers and on third tray i have forn changes as well as toggles and some powers that i use more often but have high recharge speed since its easier to reach to third tray with mouse than other two) if i stay too long on human form i change trays (they r next to each other so with just clicking one arrow on each tray is enough to change their places)
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I'm amazed to see that no one has mentioned using the Warshade Telport Foe as a means to pull hostiles to you (in singles to be dispatched in seconds), or mentioned the possibility of using terrain and "Corner Pulling" to force mobs to bunch up by making them come to you, so they fight on YOUR ground, instead of on THEIRS, so as to be able to start saturating your AoEs.
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Originally Posted by Morganite
I find it works well in some situations where nothing else I've tried does. Most notably in rooms where the mobs are too spread out to get a decently saturated Eclipse.
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It's the end. But the moment has been prepared for ...
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Starless Step (the TP Foe clone) is something I use to pull mobs holding hostages if I'm not interested in taking out the entire group or to make an essence before engaging... but it's not an efficient strategy.|
Originally Posted by Redlynne
I'm amazed to see that no one has mentioned using the Warshade Telport Foe as a means to pull hostiles to you (in singles to be dispatched in seconds), or mentioned the possibility of using terrain and "Corner Pulling" to force mobs to bunch up by making them come to you, so they fight on YOUR ground, instead of on THEIRS, so as to be able to start saturating your AoEs.
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And I will defend the "when Eclipse isn't enough" part of the statement earlier: there are times when Eclipse isn't capping you by itself because of insufficient targets - whether due to you, your pets, or your teammates killing them before/as it recharges and there being a hard target left or sometimes it's simply the mission/encounter design. Typically I get around those times with Dwarf form rather than taking any of the shields, but they did say that they played human-only. That doesn't explain why you wouldn't build to ensure perma-Eclipse, but getting a lot of mez resistance when you don't have a means of protection isn't bad advice... if anything the bad advice would be "run human-only"... but that's a playstyle choice and a perfectly valid one.
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Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
it has gone from unconscionable to downright appalling that we have no way of measuring our characters' wetness.
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Originally Posted by Brillig
It's hard to beat the entertainment value of Whackjob Wednesdays.
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I actually agree with that (except for the "run human-only" being bad advice). When I was building my build 3, I took all the shields, because I was building that build with the mentality that I would be facing one target and one target only (the AV)... I assumed that bringing in "mob food" would not always be guaranteed, and therefore I would need as much resistances in every category as possible.
Taking shields isn't a bad thing. However, the manner in which he presented his advice was, at best, immature.
On the subject of placing IOs specifically for mez resistance, I tried putting a build together like that before (about 2 or 3 years ago) and posted it here on the forums, and was derided for doing that, because of the fact that I was completely unaware that in order to fully minimize a mez using resistances, you need 200% resistance to a mez--which is impossible to achieve in ANY build. At best, you *may* be able to attain 100% mez resistance, but "100% resistance" to a mez is a deceptive statement in the context of how this game works. 100% resistance will only HALVE the amount of time that you're mezz'd. It obviously won't protect you from mezzes, so why build for mez resistances? Why not build for defense to protect yourself from being mezz'd in the first place, and then build for recharge, so you can keep as much resistances to damage types as possible?
It really doesn't make sense to waste IO slots on "mez resistance"... Even though I have one slotted in my build, I don't even see much difference between having the Winter's Gift slow resistance IO slotted and not having it slotted. The difference is so minor that the justification for placing it is nearly nonexistent.
"Alien"
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Originally Posted by Infernus_Hades
The way you play changes your IO slotting..
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76 characters and Twenty-four 50s later, I still love this game.
AlienOne's Human-Form Warshade Guide (Old guide+New guide = 12,000+ views!)
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The problem with that line of thinking if one were to make this build choice based on potentially soloing AV's, is that you're going to need your Sunless Mire to stay saturated in order to keep your DPS up to high level AV slaying status, so you'll be pulling mobs regardless.|
Originally Posted by AlienOne
I actually agree with that (except for the "run human-only" being bad advice). When I was building my build 3, I took all the shields, because I was building that build with the mentality that I would be facing one target and one target only (the AV)... I assumed that bringing in "mob food" would not always be guaranteed, and therefore I would need as much resistances in every category as possible.
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| It obviously won't protect you from mezzes, so why build for mez resistances? |
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So, essentially what you're saying is, human-form Warshades can't solo AVs unless they have a constantly fully saturated mire...|
Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy
The problem with that line of thinking if one were to make this build choice based on potentially soloing AV's, is that you're going to need your Sunless Mire to stay saturated in order to keep your DPS up to high level AV slaying status, so you'll be pulling mobs regardless.
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This is a huge disappointment, because constantly having enemies isn't always feasible, unless you're running MA missions specifically built for it.
Basically, anyone could say that soloing an AV is impossible for a Warshade in any *normal* situation (i.e., facing an AV while in an actual developer-built story arc).
With that in mind, I may just go ahead and scrap my 3rd build and stick with how I've always played... It works better for me.
"Alien"
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Originally Posted by Infernus_Hades
The way you play changes your IO slotting..
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76 characters and Twenty-four 50s later, I still love this game.
AlienOne's Human-Form Warshade Guide (Old guide+New guide = 12,000+ views!)
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Even level it shouldn't be a problem. Also AIB soloed 53 and 54 AV's (in his Dwarf form if you didn't know) by summoning pets and using them to augment his DPS which is a sound strategy if you can't pump out the personal output to down the target. As a reference point, a human form Warshade running an optimized attack chain pumps out more DPS with a single saturated Mire than an optimized Black Dwarf can assuming both Mires are always saturated (not accounting for form shift times or the rapidly increased rate at which the Dwarf would need to pull more food due to burning bodies faster with Dwarf Mire.) Human Form does significantly more ST damage generally speaking.|
Originally Posted by AlienOne
So, essentially what you're saying is, human-form Warshades can't solo AVs unless they have a constantly fully saturated mire...
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| This is a huge disappointment, because constantly having enemies isn't always feasible, unless you're running MA missions specifically built for it. |
Your third build serves a great purpose if you implement the Microcosm strategy.
I assume his play style for his comparable build that he's mentioned (I still haven't played with him) is based around taking stupid alpha strikes on tough team content and Scrapperlocking 54 Incarnate boss spawns down to the bitter end, presumably turning his resistance toggles on when Eclipse expires and there are only a couple targets left- In that case since incarnate spawns generally resist mez, I could see the resistance toggles being more useful than trying to mez the last few targets- For me, I'd rather keep my mezzes and use demonic aura/make a couple of purple inspirations/bring my t4 barrier and some break frees, just trying to rationalize the approach though.
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I'm aware of the x8 function. You don't seem to be taking all maps and all AVs into consideration. Let's say Infernal for instance. Or...Diabolique... Trying to navigate the CoT caves and properly get constantly incoming food is a feat in and of itself, not even taking into consideration trying to take down either one of those AVs... Infernal might be easier to take down if you happen to be doing the mission where there are demons constantly coming from a portal nearby, but in other situations, perhaps not. And, good luck with Diabolique--especially since she phases in and out (and is located usually at the beginning of the map). You could use Neb form to keep attacking her for constant incoming damage, but at what point do you navigate down each hall and up and down ravines/steps and around rocks (with teleport, no less) to try and have constant enemies incoming?|
Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy
Actually, any mission with an AV can be set to x8- If you're soloing it, the entire map will have ample Mire food to down a 53 or 54 AV if you're diligent in pulling your target and/or move fast enough from mire back to attacking.
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If you can post a video of successfully pulling that off, I will permanently shut up about it, but as of now, the point stands, it isn't always feasible to have constantly incoming enemies in every developer-built story arc containing AVs.
"Alien"
*EDIT*
Also, if there are any unforeseen circumstances or anything else that happens during the fight to prolong it for any reason (and you of all people should know that this sort of thing happens all the time when fighting AVs), there may not even be enough enemies in a mission to properly get enough food. I know one of the maps that Black Swan spawns in is incredibly small, so that might factor in as well.
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Originally Posted by Infernus_Hades
The way you play changes your IO slotting..
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76 characters and Twenty-four 50s later, I still love this game.
AlienOne's Human-Form Warshade Guide (Old guide+New guide = 12,000+ views!)
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Well when it comes to things like soloing AV's, I'd say the challenge itself is enough of a challenge without putting yourself through the unnecessary stress of navigating an annoying map. The Praetorian AV's are great for these types of feats because they generally spawn on large, outdoor maps. I think at the point you're getting at, it's a matter of multiple hurdles which I just don't feel the need to subject myself to. The large outdoor Praetorian maps in the Maria Jenkins arc for instance don't have ambushes, but you can set it to x8 to provide large spawns in relatively close proximity.|
Originally Posted by AlienOne
I'm aware of the x8 function. You don't seem to be taking all maps and all AVs into consideration. Let's say Infernal for instance. Or...Diabolique... Trying to navigate the CoT caves and properly get constantly incoming food is a feat in and of itself, not even taking into consideration trying to take down either one of those AVs... Infernal might be easier to take down if you happen to be doing the mission where there are demons constantly coming from a portal nearby, but in other situations, perhaps not. And, good luck with Diabolique--especially since she phases in and out. You could use Neb form to keep attacking her for constant incoming damage, but at what point do you navigate down each hall and up and down ravines/steps and around rocks (with teleport, no less) to try and have constant enemies incoming?
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Editing to elaborate. Basically, once you know you have the output to solo x AV at x level, mathematically speaking, it is generally possible to solo any AV at the same level as long as they have the same regen and resistance to your given damage type. Of course, you need to consider the damage and secondary effects of the given AV also- For instance, Anti-Matter stomped me at 54 with his defense debuffs, but this was before I had a t4 Ageless to bring along for DDR.
The point is that, yes, you can create multiple hurdles for yourself such as a difficult map, but for feats like AV soloing, the point is to test your build, dexterity, and strategy in order to accomplish a specific goal. If you choose to add additional obstacles, more power to you.. Personally, I feel it would be more gratifying to me to solo two level 54 AV's at once on a convenient map than it would be to solo one AV on an annoying map. Everyone has their own idea of challenge though, so if your perspective differs from mine that's totally cool.
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I'm actually referring to 2 two three (or possibly more--I haven't played through it in a little while) instances within the Maria Jenkins arc. Diabolique, Infernal, and Black Swan are all Praetorian Earth AVs.|
Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy
Well when it comes to things like soloing AV's, I'd say the challenge itself is enough of a challenge without putting yourself through the unnecessary stress of navigating an annoying map. The Praetorian AV's are great for these types of feats because they generally spawn on large, outdoor maps. I think at the point you're getting at, it's a matter of multiple hurdles which I just don't feel the need to subject myself to. The large outdoor Praetorian maps in the Maria Jenkins arc for instance don't have ambushes, but you can set it to x8 to provide large spawns in relatively close proximity.
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Here's a link to one of the missions I'm referring to. I could find others, but I'm about to head out for a meeting with my thesis advisor.
"Alien"
*EDIT*
I noticed they have Resistance as enemies and Ms. Liberty as an ally in the mission, so it appears they may have completely changed it from what it used to be. Ah, I long for the days when you could make builds for many challenges in the game, not just a build tailor-made for one specific challenge in a MA mission. >.<
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Originally Posted by Infernus_Hades
The way you play changes your IO slotting..
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76 characters and Twenty-four 50s later, I still love this game.
AlienOne's Human-Form Warshade Guide (Old guide+New guide = 12,000+ views!)
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Originally Posted by AlienOne
Ah, I long for the days when you could make builds for many challenges in the game, not just a build tailor-made for one specific challenge in a MA mission. >.<
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Well I'm sure if you wanted to make a build meant to be comfortable soloing AV's on enclosed maps (really a specific tailor made build wouldn't be necessary) it wouldn't be impossible or even especially difficult- I would just personally find it annoying/likely view it as more of a chore than a leisure activity. It just comes down to being enthusiastic enough to peruse the idea and invest the time into accomplishing the goal. I think that the method of summoning fluffies to help with the AV would be the best approach to take in this case. They're a part of your native powerset so there's no shame in using them- It's definitely a solid approach, just not the one that I personally prefer to use.
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This got me really curious... What enemies were you fighting that could bring you down before your Eclipse was done animating, at +0x8? Maybe they're some specially fast or hard hitting enemies...|
Originally Posted by Xarybdis
So this weekend I took your guys' advice and tried to be a better Warshade--
but I ended up with the taste of dirt & asphalt in my mouth again-- repeatedly. |
I wondered if I was remembering my WS toughness wrong, so I actually grabbed him from his semi-retirement (waiting for new incarnate slots) and started running a few missions at +1x8 (since he has the alpha level shift)... I had no problems whatsoever. I tested the Gravitic Emanation opening (which I hardly ever use unless it's a group full of mezzers), or just the simpler dive-in-with-SS+Cloak, and using either method I could always Eclipse/Mire/Nova and go to town taking almost no damage...
Then, with a council x8 group I tried dying by NOT using eclipse when I jumped in the mob (and those bosses and LTs hit kinda hard and stun in melee)... Instead I just jumped in as a Dwarf, mired and mangled a minion, went human, mired and blew up the corpse (so cool!), called in the pet, unnecessary stygian circle just for fun, back to dwarf to finish off the boss... And it was pretty easy. Not as effective as just nova blasting with saturated eclipse and mires, but fun.
And my build is actually kinda bad! It's an old build and IOs and the high-def/high-recharge stuff were all pretty new when he was made... Plus he performs so well as is that I never felt the need to respec. So Eclipse isn't even perma (I usually just Judgement+Nova AoE the next group if Eclipse is down and it works fine) and he has no defenses to speak of (not even the +3% def unique), but it's still tough to die.
Pretty much the only times I die are:
1) Low difficulty missions when there aren't enough bodies to eclipse/stygian out of - yeah, weird, low difficulty is tougher!
2) Trying to speed/stealth a mission (and thus not taking the time to Eclipse, which is dumb, I know) and running into a large group that somehow sees me (damn you, drones!) and proceeds to shred me if I don't react fast enough to mez them.
3) I fail to notice Eclipse is coming down while I'm in the middle of a high-danger situation (especially bad if it's a lone, high-psi-damage threat, where Dwarf isn't likely to save my bacon).
So, what was killing you? I'm curious!
Playing CoH with Gestures
There are plenty of ways to deal with single targets on teams without food. First, you're on a team, so chances are you're getting some sort of resistance buff from the inherent. Second, you're on a team, so you're probably getting buffs and/or sharing aggro with your team mates. Third, you can use barrier if you so choose. Fourth, inspirations. Fifth, you're a Warshade. Stop being such a wimp and look into the eyes of your challenger while you feast on his soul. The fifth reason is my personal favorite.