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Think as to why the ones on the market work as they do and the ones you can find work differently... it's really quite simple to figure out. This is not a change that should be made not is it one likely to be made.
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Originally Posted by Twigman
When The LOTG set was in Paragon market it occured to me ... why not remove the varying ranges of LVL and just make all IO sets like the one's in Paragon market. That should moderatly improve the sale prices and make the purchase of enhancements easier and let you start building your toon earlier ... rather than waiting to LVL 48 to buy mostly everything. What are the people's thought?
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Pro:
-Remove clutter in auction house UI
-Remove clutter cause by vast amount of salvage and recipes
-QoL regarding slotting
-QoL regarding saving inf for purple/PvP recipes
-Remove clutter in base/personal storage
Con:
-Needs a lot of time and effort to get this implemented.
-People will need new ways to get rid of inf
I slot my toons with I/O's till 47. Start at 15, replace those at 30 and replace those at 47/50.
Will it be easier to slot sets at their lowest level and 'grow' with me? Sure.
Will it happen? Not likely.
Dark Energon, Founder of the Freedom Legion SG on Guardian server.
(SG founded on 12-08-'09, Top100: 08-17-'10, Top50: 12-23-'10, Top25: 12-11-'11)
Crab Spider Nephila on Titan Tracker
Weekly events on Guardian: W.A.V.E. & FNFN
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If you're looking for gold or steel, your age doesn't determine the strength or purity of the element ... why would level effect the Level of an enhancement? These enhancments aren't gifts for actions, they are found in the process.|
Originally Posted by Durakken
Think as to why the ones on the market work as they do and the ones you can find work differently... it's really quite simple to figure out. This is nor a change that should be made not is it one likely to be made.
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I still think they should be every power range from (LOTG) 30-50.
I'd go for it. I have altitis, I'm satisfied with a lot of non min-max toons that would be nice to get IO'ed up with less effort and then still be good to play for things like SSAs and accolade hunting.
I have some farmers and I can farm the hell and back (or run tips) till I get all the IOs I want, but it's just too boring for me. This is a game, I want to have fun 
The guys who have 25 billion builds and feel 'special' because of it may be against it (like the altoholics and non-av soloers like me actually give a damn if their purpled builds can do 50 more dps or the pylon time or whatever), as well as NCSoft since now there's the market with attuned enhancements - in the end they just spent more time on their toons, which is ok but not everyone wants to play a toon so much, the times I did that and purpled out my 3 'min max' toons, I grew bored from them and wanted to try new powersets.
Anyway I'd like the change because after all, it still wouldn't be exactly easy to 'purple out a warshade' (the usual definition of a hardcore player). And for us who like to team and get bored to tears when soloing, the iTrials are a perfect example that player skill is more important and as long as your build isn't terrible, it can be moderately IOed so that you can do any of them while some 20 bil toons are dying all the time.
Ironically, I can use farmer SS/Fires as an example. I was PL'ed for free the other day by a fella who kept saying he was proud of his build and that it cost 30 billion, had 150% recharge, etc. Sure he was good, but my main farmer (also an SS/Fire) cost less than 2 bil, has more recharge and more AoEs due to my power selection (for example I don't have to use KO Blow to kill 54s with bosses, that player had to). Not saying I'm awesome at builds or anything, just that in a team setting, even on a farming setting, you're not likely to notice one of the toons in your teams is 'zomg purpled build'. PvP is a different case, but again, player skill is more important (at least until i12 because I can't comment about the revamped pvp, barely touched it).
Also, that would be sweet for exemping. But I don't see it happening anyway... And I'm not technically proficient to be sure on how much effort the change would require, even if ncsoft wanted it, since the market would have to be revamped.
And well maybe even the min maxers who are proud to have spent so much time and effort on their builds would be bothered by this, since I've seen recent threads from newish players saying 'so I saw Joe Whatever's awesome blaster/scrapper/Ws build and I replicated it now I'm having trouble with this and that' - meaning that even being new the player has at least the knowledge and influence/patience to replicate a top end build, didn't seem to bother the min/maxers, the replies I saw were usually helpful.
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This. Would rather the devs spend their time working on other things that fiddling with a system that works well enough.
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Originally Posted by Dark Energon
Con: -Needs a lot of time and effort to get this implemented. |
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Arguments based on realism carry very, very little weight here. Especially when it's nearly a non sequitur anyway, because age and level are only vaguely connected.|
Originally Posted by Twigman
If you're looking for gold or steel, your age doesn't determine the strength or purity of the element ... why would level effect the Level of an enhancement? These enhancments aren't gifts for actions, they are found in the process.
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Plus, I'm not sure the devs are too excited about reducing the allure of one of their own sources of revenue.
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ok ... actual concept aside ... how would changing level based enhancments to open enhancments take money from the pockets of Devs? ... Epecially when they already made the code for it? It also wouldn't be that hard ... I believe. Replace all ___LVL 30-50 with ___. Market would auto consolidate itself ... I believe. If your not a dev ... you can't contradict my "beliefs" LOL|
Originally Posted by Hopeling
Arguments based on realism carry very, very little weight here. Especially when it's nearly a non sequitur anyway, because age and level are only vaguely connected.
Plus, I'm not sure the devs are too excited about reducing the allure of one of their own sources of revenue. |
oh, concept still remains, Why would something I found have a LVL conected to it?
In any case, let's let the Dev's decide. Give a number of days/hours you'd agree to for the Dev's to implement this ... I would say 3 days is plenty of time for it to happen. Not enough to take any significant amount of time out of the other projects and it still be able to be done. (keep in mind that's only one dev working on it out of how many?)
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Currently, the Paragon Market enhancements have a distinct advantage over normal IOs: they level with you, and exemplar down with you. This is part of their allure. Giving this feature to normal IOs removes that allure from the point-bought enhancements.|
Originally Posted by Twigman
ok ... actual concept aside ... how would changing level based enhancments to open enhancments take money from the pockets of Devs? ... Epecially when they already made the code for it? It also wouldn't be that hard ... I believe. Replace all ___LVL 30-50 with ___. Market would auto consolidate itself ... I believe. If your not a dev ... you can't contradict my "beliefs" LOL
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| oh, concept still remains, Why would something I found have a LVL conected to it? |
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A I know people would still buy them if they made them a little morre affordable and put ALL the IO except purples in there. The Alure of the Paragon market IO's is that they can be bought out right. If they wanna make them really nice, they could make them auto +3 for purchasers.|
Originally Posted by Hopeling
A Currently, the Paragon Market enhancements have a distinct advantage over normal IOs: they level with you, and exemplar down with you. This is part of their allure. Giving this feature to normal IOs removes that allure from the point-bought enhancements.
B Again, arguments based on realism carry very, very little weight here, but if you insist: Why do YOU have a level? Why do your enemies have a level? Level represents power. If you're fighting a level 10 enemy, his weapons/armor/spells/mutant glands/whatever are not as strong as a higher-level enemy's would be. If they were, he wouldn't be level 10. |
B Who's to say the enhancments that the lvl10 enemies carry don't ALSO LvL up with them?
I actually like this idea.
Sure it would present some problems, compared to the versions on the market, but with Hero Merits, reward merits and what not, it is not that hard to get the pieces you want , completely in game, just with a little patience.
The auction house would be a lot easier to use, only having 1 recipe and 1 IO with the same name, instead of lines after lines of the same recipe at different levels. And if you so desire, can start IOing your character at lower levels.
The vast majority of content in this game is below lvl 45, so even with my 3 fully IOed chars (none using purples, mind you) I spend more time exemplaring down than anything. This would make those instances less painful
"What counts is not what sounds plausible, not what we would like to believe, not what one or two witnesses claim, but only what is supported by hard evidence rigorously and skeptically examined. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence." - Carl Sagan
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I didn't say no one would buy them. I said it would remove that aspect of their allure, which is to say demand would decrease, which would result in less sales. Not NO sales, but less sales. Note also that I haven't said I dislike the idea. I only said that I doubt the devs would want to reduce the appeal of their own product.|
Originally Posted by Twigman
A I know people would still buy them if they made them a little morre affordable and put ALL the IO except purples in there. The Alure of the Paragon market IO's is that they can be bought out right. If they wanna make them really nice, they could make them auto +3 for purchasers.
B Who's to say the enhancments that the lvl10 enemies carry don't ALSO LvL up with them? |
I really am not going to discuss the realism/concept aspect of this any further at all, because it is a pointless line of reasoning, and usually leads to making the game worse, not better.
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Maybe the market version could have better stats, like one category up?|
Originally Posted by Hopeling
I didn't say no one would buy them. I said it would remove that aspect of their allure, which is to say demand would decrease, which would result in less sales. Not NO sales, but less sales. Note also that I haven't said I dislike the idea. I only said that I doubt the devs would want to reduce the appeal of their own product.
I really am not going to discuss the realism/concept aspect of this any further at all, because it is a pointless line of reasoning, and usually leads to making the game worse, not better. |
If they implemented this, maybe the sets on the market would be similar to the +5 with the enhancement boosters? Just a random idea... or maybe have a 5% or 10% higher stats.
"What counts is not what sounds plausible, not what we would like to believe, not what one or two witnesses claim, but only what is supported by hard evidence rigorously and skeptically examined. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence." - Carl Sagan
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I agree sales would drop ... |
Originally Posted by Hopeling
I didn't say no one would buy them. I said it would remove that aspect of their allure, which is to say demand would decrease, which would result in less sales. Not NO sales, but less sales. Note also that I haven't said I dislike the idea. I only said that I doubt the devs would want to reduce the appeal of their own product.
I really am not going to discuss the realism/concept aspect of this any further at all, because it is a pointless line of reasoning, and usually leads to making the game worse, not better. |
I agree to the pointlessness of argueing the concepts ...
I still want them to do it.
I'd be happy with consolidating IO into tiers, every 5 levels, like SO and Common IOs, as has often been suggested before. That would concentrate supply to improve trading in sub-50 recipes and IOs, and make spread-bidding easier, while still leaving the scaling properties of Paragon Market IO as a selling point. To neaten things up even more, I'd then also make IO sets keep their bonues to 5 level below their level rather than, to bring them in line with keeping powers when sidekicked down.
Of course, there are still problems to solve, such as what do you do with all the IOs that people already have slotted?
Arc#314490: Zombie Ninja Pirates!
Defiant @Grouchybeast
Death is part of my attack chain.
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I think the time and effort would be well worth it. Now I don't bother with set IO's till lvl 47 at the earliest, usually I wait till 50 and a time that I'm bored. So half of my 50's are still on SO or lvl 35 white IO builds, usually a combination of both. |
Originally Posted by Dark Energon
Pro:
-Remove clutter in auction house UI -Remove clutter cause by vast amount of salvage and recipes -QoL regarding slotting -QoL regarding saving inf for purple/PvP recipes -Remove clutter in base/personal storage Con: -Needs a lot of time and effort to get this implemented. -People will need new ways to get rid of inf |
lvl 1-21: I much about with stuff I find, maybe put in DO's if I can be bothered.
lvl 22-31: SO's
lvl 32-lvl47: lvl 35 common IOs
lvl 50: set IO's. If I feel like it. And the character is fun enough to warrant the time investment.
This change would actually make me use set IO's a lot more often.
@True Metal
Co-leader of Callous Crew SG. Based on Union server.
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I don't think it's impossible to write some code that automatically converts (or replaces) all existing IO's slotted or not to the new version.
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Originally Posted by Grouchybeast
Of course, there are still problems to solve, such as what do you do with all the IOs that people already have slotted?
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@True Metal
Co-leader of Callous Crew SG. Based on Union server.
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No, but your skill as a blacksmith would effect the quality of your sword. The numbers are more indicative of skill and growth in ability than in linear age.
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Originally Posted by Twigman
If you're looking for gold or steel, your age doesn't determine the strength or purity of the element ... why would level effect the Level of an enhancement? These enhancments aren't gifts for actions, they are found in the process.
I still think they should be every power range from (LOTG) 30-50. |
Jay Doherty: Yes, there was this one night that I was ready to go home but had to drop the browns off at the super bowl before I left for home. While on the throne it hit me. I stayed for a few more hours and that why we have the pain pads in the game.
Really, now. There are only two advantages to this. One is that you can buy them at an earlier level and don't need to worry about upgrading them later. But, since you won't have all your slots at earlier levels, there would still be a need to work on your enhancements as you level up. So, basically it's just about saving a few clicks and some inf. That can't be the main reason people wish for this.
The second advantage is keeping the set bonuses when you exemplar down. But when you exemplar down, you are supposed to be weaker. Why are you so focused on keeping the set bonuses when you exemplar? Why do you believe that you should be so much more powerful than charas who are naturally at the level you exemplared down to?
Would you prefer that the game kept track of which slot you gained at what level, and took the slots away that were granted at a higher level than your current combat level? If you ask me, we should be happy the game works the way it does.
10joy
When The LOTG set was in Paragon market it occured to me ... why not remove the varying ranges of LVL and just make all IO sets like the one's in Paragon market. That should moderatly improve the sale prices and make the purchase of enhancements easier and let you start building your toon earlier ... rather than waiting to LVL 48 to buy mostly everything. What are the people's thought?