Yes. That's exactly what that means.
\o/
If this really is true, then I foresee a lot more TFs in my future, especially if I can queue up while in a mission and while on a team.
I guess the only question that's left is if the developers have fixed people's rotten habit of never queuing up for an event unless they have a pre-formed team, thus making it pointless to queue up at all.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Yeah, I expect to queue up for a TF when I log on each time
We as a community need to support a fundamental shift in how teams are created. I hate, hate, hate, hate, hate spamming channels and sending out tells to everyone looking for teams. We really need to make a concerted effort to use the queuing system how it was intended and get people used to teaming this way.
Maybe we can start holding queue-based events, or forming up groups dedicated to running multiple queue-recruited task forces per day or something. Honestly, I think that the only people don't use them more now is because of the shortcomings it has had that this issue resolves (for example, not being queueable in missions and such), but I'm a little worried that the simple inertia of people doing things the way they've always been done will be a hinderance to the queue system, which I think is brilliant, becoming widely accepted.
@The devs, next stop: Ouroboros arcs! 
We've been saving Paragon City for eight and a half years. It's time to do it one more time.
(If you love this game as much as I do, please read that post.)
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The only reason I use the LFG thing now is because it's required to start itrials. I won't actually use it to find groups though cause I hate to PuG. I welcome the change though, it's great for everyone that wants to use it, I just personally won't be using it.
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Originally Posted by TonyV
Honestly, I think that the only people don't use them more now is because of the shortcomings it has had that this issue resolves (for example, not being queueable in missions and such), but I'm a little worried that the simple inertia of people doing things the way they've always been done will be a hinderance to the queue system, which I think is brilliant, becoming widely accepted.
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While it's not mentioned in the patch note, the LFG tool also works for non-Incarnate trials. Stuff like Terra Volta and the Hydra trial.
Positron: "There are no bugs [in City of Heroes], just varying degrees of features."
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That will not happen so long as you cannot see what you're getting. For example, I am not going to join something like the UGT or MoM with a random group of people who I cannot tell their powersets or level shifts.
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Originally Posted by TonyV
We as a community need to support a fundamental shift in how teams are created. I hate, hate, hate, hate, hate spamming channels and sending out tells to everyone looking for teams. We really need to make a concerted effort to use the queuing system how it was intended and get people used to teaming this way.
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Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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There are going to be problems evangelizing any new method of forming teams that either:|
Originally Posted by TonyV
We as a community need to support a fundamental shift in how teams are created.
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- Differ in any way from "tried and true" methods long-time players are already familiar with and like.
- Remove any control over team composition.
NOR-RAD - 50 Rad/Rad/Elec Defender - Nikki Stryker - 50 DM/SR/Weap Scrapper - Iron Marauder - 50 Eng/Eng/Pow Blaster
Lion of Might - 50 SS/Inv/Eng Tanker - Darling Nikkee - 50 (+3) StJ/WP/Eng Brute - Ice Giant Kurg - 36 Ice/Storm Controller
other games reward people for using the LFG tool with buffs when you use it.
Give +10% xp if you use a team created from it and it would get used - at least for the lower level tf's
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And how would it distinguish between using it with a fully pre-formed league, and joining such a league as a single person from the queue? Would the single person get the bonus? The whole league? No one?|
Originally Posted by dugfromthearth
other games reward people for using the LFG tool with buffs when you use it.
Give +10% xp if you use a team created from it and it would get used - at least for the lower level tf's |
People are going to use the interface. Just being able to start up a TF from any zone is reason enough to do that. What some of us are not going to do is hope for fully randomized teams, made of nothing but people who all hopped in the queue together.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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SCR means I couldn't predict exactly how they would distinguish, but it should in principle be possible (and has been done in other games). The best way, IMO, is to give the bonus to the whole team - this encourages solo queuers, but also gives an incentive for partly-formed teams to just hop in the queue and let it fill their last few members so they get a bonus.|
Originally Posted by UberGuy
And how would it distinguish between using it with a fully pre-formed league, and joining such a league as a single person from the queue? Would the single person get the bonus? The whole league? No one?
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I agree that the TuT will and should never become the standard for things like the harder iTrials, but hopefully we can convince people to use it for things where they'd invite the first people to send them a tell anyway, like regular task forces.
i think the main thing that will get me to use this more is the fact they are adding the ability to queue while instanced, that right there is a major reason why i dont use the queuing system as is
If anything, I would expect the biggest obstacle to this feature's success as a "just queue up" feature would be that there's so many different task forces. If everybody queues up for just the ones they want, but never tries to recruit, you'd probably get a whole lot of queues with 1-2 people each, and very few with enough to start. Unless many/most people queue for First Available, perhaps.
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World of Warcraft I think did it best, give an incentive to queuing up with a random team|
Originally Posted by TonyV
We as a community need to support a fundamental shift in how teams are created. I hate, hate, hate, hate, hate spamming channels and sending out tells to everyone looking for teams. We really need to make a concerted effort to use the queuing system how it was intended and get people used to teaming this way.
Maybe we can start holding queue-based events, or forming up groups dedicated to running multiple queue-recruited task forces per day or something. Honestly, I think that the only people don't use them more now is because of the shortcomings it has had that this issue resolves (for example, not being queueable in missions and such), but I'm a little worried that the simple inertia of people doing things the way they've always been done will be a hinderance to the queue system, which I think is brilliant, becoming widely accepted. @The devs, next stop: Ouroboros arcs! |
In World of Warcraft, you get a bonus when you queue with a random team (Not a pre-formed team). At the end of the dungeon you get a bonus that is given once a day and a lesser bonus.
In this game's equivalent, it would be like giving 3 EMP merits for doing a random TF queue and 1 EMP merit for the rest of the day until it reset.
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In WOW the single person gets the bonus.
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Originally Posted by UberGuy
And how would it distinguish between using it with a fully pre-formed league, and joining such a league as a single person from the queue? Would the single person get the bonus? The whole league? No one?
People are going to use the interface. Just being able to start up a TF from any zone is reason enough to do that. What some of us are not going to do is hope for fully randomized teams, made of nothing but people who all hopped in the queue together. |
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For iTrials, probably, but then I'm not interested in that, myself. Luckily, for most anything else, team composition doesn't matter all that much. I intend to use it for TFs mostly, and the way I see those advertised is:|
Originally Posted by UberGuy
That will not happen so long as you cannot see what you're getting. For example, I am not going to join something like the UGT or MoM with a random group of people who I cannot tell their powersets or level shifts.
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-Such and such TF looking for members!
-I want in. What should I bring?
-Whatever you feel like, we'll be fine.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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First time I couldn't really get behind an idea of yours. |
Originally Posted by TonyV
We as a community need to support a fundamental shift in how teams are created. I hate, hate, hate, hate, hate spamming channels and sending out tells to everyone looking for teams. We really need to make a concerted effort to use the queuing system how it was intended and get people used to teaming this way.
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Not because I think a queuing system is bad (or good). But the month I spent in World of Warcraft introduced me to random queuing. I have also used it at weird hours in Dungeon Defenders. Those were the least engaging teams I have ever experienced in any game in my life. In most cases no one ever said a word, ever. Even after much goading, bad jokes and rather clever (IMO) monster-bashing one-liners from myself.
This detracts from your experience in more ways than one if you need to communicate to form successful strategies. But these people wouldn't care if you were simply an NPC ally, and will actually probably see you as such. Queued teams are the most non-social social experiences you'll ever experience. Familiar teammates, on the other hand, work better together, think better together, cover each other better, have more fun together. There is a psychological investment, however small, and it helps. I am aware that queuing is an inevitable feature of the modern MMO, so there's no point in "being against" their arrival here. But, just trust me on this, you won't be as excited about them after you've seen a few (unless the above illustration excites you). They sound better on paper. In practice, they're soulless experiences.
I didn't begin to enjoy teaming in City of Heroes until I made a few global friends. With that realization under my belt, I began building a larger list of global friends. Two years and a lot of "Feel free to add me if you enjoyed tonight's team!" later, I rarely need to team up with complete strangers. I may not be close to all of them, but after two years of playing together, I am at least familiar with all of them (and familiar with their playstyles). I can see the desire for a "social experience in a can," and every great once in a while, a random team will turn out to be just that. But after a few dozen teams, you'll recognize them as exceptions. To really have fun in a social game (when not soloing, I mean), you have got to be social yourself, and that's work--not much work, but some.
If the above sounds appealing or just fine to some of you (as I'm sure it will--different strokes for different folks
), then I'm honestly happy for you. But I'm not personally excited about it, and in some ways, it's the antithesis of my social playstyle--it's how to be all by yourself in the middle of a group of people.
@Captain-Electric � Detective Marvel � The Sapien Spider � Moravec Man � The Old Norseman
Dark-Eyes � Doctor Serpentine � Stonecaster � Skymaiden � The Blue Jaguar
Guide to Altitis � A Comic for New Players � The Lore Project � Intro to extraterrestrials in CoH
Will the LFG tool replace the way we can form TFs now or just add to it?
Recently, my 2 SG-mates and I have been enjoying attempting to trio TFs, using padders (and here i am duty bound to thank the kind folks in TheMarket channel who are invariably generous withtheir time to help us get the tF miminum to start).
We like doing tFs this way because of all the reasons that small team/duo non-PuG people like to quote -we can take our time, log out for the evening half way through, go AFK for dinner, just stop and chat, take screenshots etc.
The thought of being limited to only play TFs in large groups of people I don't know makkes me a bit depressed.
I hope they leave the TFs in-zone contacts there and either don't touch the minimUm reqs or lower them fOr the LFG tool.
Eco
Edit: my post isnt meat to sound negative about adding TFs to the LFG tool, if we can still manually form teams for them then Thats cool. Adding TFs to the LFG tool is great, I think. More choice is always good, as long as it doesn't remove other options.
MArcs:
The Echo, Arc ID 1688 (5mish, easy, drama)
The Audition, Arc ID 221240 (6 mish, complex mech, comedy)
Storming Citadel, Arc ID 379488 (lowbie, 1mish, 10-min timed)
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
[The Incarnate System is] Jack Emmert all over again, only this time it's not "1 hero = 3 white minions" it's "1 hero = 3 white rocks."
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According to the patch notes, the TuT doesn't even start the TF for you, it just teleports you all to the contact and allows the leader to kick or invite anyone they want before speaking to the contact to begin. Presumably, you can still start the TF manually, you just have to walk to the zone yourself, same as now.|
Originally Posted by MrCaptainMan
Will the LFG tool replace the way we can form TFs now or just add to it?
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Edit: Here's the exact wording:
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Originally Posted by I22 patch notes
The TUT will assemble teams from the queue between the minimum and maximum players for the event and teleport accepting members to the Contact which starts the TF, SF, or Trial. Once players are teleported to that location and assembled into the team, the TUT is no longer involved in the process. The leader of the newly formed team can invite more players or talk to the Contact to start the content at their discretion.
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I don't think you're seeing the right thing here. When I said I'll do a lot more TFs with a working queue, that's not because I'm looking for a social experience. If I wanted a social experience, I have global channels, global friends and the forums. I'd queue up to join TFs specifically because they're tasks I'd like to do from time to time and the only way to do them is with a team. If the computer can put this team together for me and that team is relatively independent (can play their chosen characters), then that's ideal. I'm not looking to make life-long friends, I'm not looking to add people to my lists, I'm not looking for idle chit-chat. I want to kill stuff, it's mandatory that I team with other people, so I'd like to do the least socialising possible in order to get through the task.|
Originally Posted by Captain-Electric
I can see the desire for a "social experience in a can," and every great once in a while, a random team will turn out to be just that. But after a few dozen teams, you'll recognize them as exceptions. To really have fun in a social game (when not soloing, I mean), you have got to be social yourself, and that's work--not much work, but some.
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This is really the same way I play games like the Battlefield series, League of Legends and Vindictus. Or, hell, most of the deathmatch games of the 90s. I'm not looking for friends, I'm looking to play a game, and it just happens to be a game I can't play by myself. So long as I don't have to compete against other people (because people are cheap and mean), then social interaction is secondary. If I could play by myself, I would, but game design mandates I play with others, and so I will.
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I know I've said that when I team, it's for the social aspect, but that's when I have to socialise to team to begin with. With a system as impersonal as random game joining, my team-mites might as well indeed be bots. That's how the developers designed their game, that's how I intend to play it. If you force me to play with other people, then you force me to see other people as a necessary evil rather than an asset. Previously, I might have teamed for the socialisation, but once this change goes Live, that will be just one mode to my playstyle - team for the company. Another mode will be "team because I have to" and that's not going to involve any unwanted socialisation.
That's your forced teaming at work, folks.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Hm. It's not a huge step from this to 'let the game form my TF minimum start size then boot everyone I don't need for my duo/trio SG fun'.|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
I don't think you're seeing the right thing here. When I said I'll do a lot more TFs with a working queue, that's not because I'm looking for a social experience. If I wanted a social experience, I have global channels, global friends and the forums. I'd queue up to join TFs specifically because they're tasks I'd like to do from time to time and the only way to do them is with a team. If the computer can put this team together for me and that team is relatively independent (can play their chosen characters), then that's ideal. I'm not looking to make life-long friends, I'm not looking to add people to my lists, I'm not looking for idle chit-chat. I want to kill stuff, it's mandatory that I team with other people, so I'd like to do the least socialising possible in order to get through the task.
This is really the same way I play games like the Battlefield series, League of Legends and Vindictus. Or, hell, most of the deathmatch games of the 90s. I'm not looking for friends, I'm looking to play a game, and it just happens to be a game I can't play by myself. So long as I don't have to compete against other people (because people are cheap and mean), then social interaction is secondary. If I could play by myself, I would, but game design mandates I play with others, and so I will. --- I know I've said that when I team, it's for the social aspect, but that's when I have to socialise to team to begin with. With a system as impersonal as random game joining, my team-mites might as well indeed be bots. That's how the developers designed their game, that's how I intend to play it. If you force me to play with other people, then you force me to see other people as a necessary evil rather than an asset. Previously, I might have teamed for the socialisation, but once this change goes Live, that will be just one mode to my playstyle - team for the company. Another mode will be "team because I have to" and that's not going to involve any unwanted socialisation. That's your forced teaming at work, folks. |
Treating folk like bots is a side effect of the raid-culture, I guess.
Eco
MArcs:
The Echo, Arc ID 1688 (5mish, easy, drama)
The Audition, Arc ID 221240 (6 mish, complex mech, comedy)
Storming Citadel, Arc ID 379488 (lowbie, 1mish, 10-min timed)
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
[The Incarnate System is] Jack Emmert all over again, only this time it's not "1 hero = 3 white minions" it's "1 hero = 3 white rocks."
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And I guess this signals the end of any pleaa to reduce the TF start minimums to any much lower numbers. Having the LFG activate at 1 member would make it not work very well.
Unless they added a 'select minimum you want to start with' option.
Eco
MArcs:
The Echo, Arc ID 1688 (5mish, easy, drama)
The Audition, Arc ID 221240 (6 mish, complex mech, comedy)
Storming Citadel, Arc ID 379488 (lowbie, 1mish, 10-min timed)
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
[The Incarnate System is] Jack Emmert all over again, only this time it's not "1 hero = 3 white minions" it's "1 hero = 3 white rocks."
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How do you expect me to react, realistically speaking? When I don't feel like socialising with other people but want to run content that forces me to team with other people, how am I supposed to approach it? Change my mood and suddenly start feeling like a social butterfly? That won't happen. Just not do the task? Well, sure, it's how I've been handling it for years.|
Originally Posted by MrCaptainMan
Hm. It's not a huge step from this to 'let the game form my TF minimum start size then boot everyone I don't need for my duo/trio SG fun'. Treating folk like bots is a side effect of the raid-culture, I guess.
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Or how about hopping on a team along with 7 other people who aren't in it for the socialisation and are just looking to kill some stuff, get some rewards and progress their characters? What's wrong with that? I mean, yeah, it's not the ideal social climate that MMO designers shoot for, but again - you can force people to spend time together, but you can't force them to socialise. We'll just find ways to cooperate on a disconnected level thought game mechanics as opposed to natural language.
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I want to give an example, since a friend of mine got me to give League of Legends another shot. I spend most of my time there playing by myself, since said friend works weird shifts and isn't always around. When I do this, I let the system drop me into a team of complete strangers, whereupon I choose a role for myself (push on upper lane, usually) and go from there. If too many people come to overpopulate my lane and leave another exposed, I switch lanes. If I see someone fighting near to where I am, I pitch in to help however I can, but if that someone is being an idiot and getting himself shot to **** by turrets for no reason, I'll back up and let him. If someone wants to say something, there's a ping tool where you can "ping" a location on the map and the others have to try and figure out what you mean. It's usually fairly self-explanatory.
On one place on the map, there is a very tough monster, defeating which takes multiple people, but also grants very useful buffs. Occasionally, someone will ping its location repeatedly and then stand in front of the monster's enclosure like a dog standing in at the front door with its leash in its mouth. If I the person is patient, I'll join them and see if others will join us, as well. If they do, we fight the monster. If they don't, we'll either try it with just two people or leave to do something else. I've nary said a word to another human being in that game, yet we seem able to get along just fine. Maybe it's just that I'm playing PvE, but I've not been called names yet.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Umm, ours already does.|
Originally Posted by dugfromthearth
other games reward people for using the LFG tool with buffs when you use it.
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When you start an Incarnate trial and leave the league open for people to join, you get Warmth of Prometheus applied, which gives everyone in the league +7.5% damage, healing, and recharge.
The Master Lambda teams I've been on usually leave the league open just for this, to get the extra damage.
You also get an extra astral merit I think. I don't know if you still get it if the league is at max size. You may, which kind of defeats the purpose, but I deliberately avoid league leaders who sit there for 10 minutes waiting to fill spot #24 rather than just hitting 'Go' with 20-23.
"Expansion of the Team Up Teleporter: In addition to granting access to the new Bloody Bay Trial, the Team Up Teleporter can now be used inside missions and to organize groups for existing task forces and strike forces. Characters on solo or group missions can queue up for trials from within those missions. You can also use the Team Up Teleporter to queue up for a task force or strike force."
Does this mean we can do LFG to queue for Posi, Synapse and such?
That would be great - if people used it.