Originally Posted by Melancton
![]() Why would a noble hero give Excalibur to Ms. Liberty for safe-keeping? She is depicted as such a mega Bee-yotch 24/7 that I cannot imagine what prompted him to do that. Perhaps he will turn out to be an idiot. He would have to be to give that storied sword to what she is depicted as.
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If there's one thing SSA has taught me...
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Why would a noble hero give Excalibur to Ms. Liberty for safe-keeping? She is depicted as such a mega Bee-yotch 24/7 that I cannot imagine what prompted him to do that. Perhaps he will turn out to be an idiot.
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It sucks like a tornado.
![EEK!](images/smilies/eek.gif)
(The helmet is cool, but the rest of it blows.)
Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
You forgot the ponytail. Nothing simultaneously says "I can haz supervillainy?" and "I fathered a 'Jersey Shore' cast member" quite like a slicked-back ponytail.
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I once was in a tabletop gaming group and one of our members had:
-Ponytail
-Dark glasses
-Goatee
He was the stereotypical villaintype and also hatched a plan to turn Ottawa into a giant battery for his purposes; it's been a while but I think he was going to use the Ottawa River/Rideau Canal and fill it with acid/other stuff so he could go thermonuclear. Since all of us would get a cut of the proceeds, we encouraged this to no end.
![Cool](images/smilies/cool.gif)
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168760: A Death in the Gish. 3 missions, 1-14. Easy to solo.
Infinity Villains
Champion, Pinnacle, Virtue Heroes
I am - what are the examples of Ms. Liberty being unpleasant in the game?
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- She's set up a paramilitary group and invaded a part of the Rogue Isles.
- She's taken a hissy fit over her grandfather taking a leave, leading to...
- Her refusal to allow a Freedom Phalanx member to help with Malaise.
- Oh, she's also got a group of Longbow trying to subert the Vanguard.
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168760: A Death in the Gish. 3 missions, 1-14. Easy to solo.
Infinity Villains
Champion, Pinnacle, Virtue Heroes
http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Regulators
The Regulators, or The Vindicators? Regulators were BAB's team with Blue Steel. |
![](http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/3910/draeon.png)
"Well, there's going to be some light music and a short note of apology saying, 'The universe ended last week, we're really sorry, we don't know what you're doing here, didn't you get the message?'"- Steve Moffat
Some examples of Ms. Liberty as a transparently-scripted no-redeeming-value superhero-princess-mean-girl:
ftp://ftp.coh.com/comics/topcow/comic_16.pdf p.7
Ms. Liberty: What the HELL are you talking about?
Statesman: Jessica! Watch your language!
Ms. Liberty: Bite me.
(The above gets Double Word Bonus for depicting Statesman as a prissy Oh My Rosebud Ears old fogey as well.)
ftp://ftp.coh.com/comics/topcow/comic_17.pdf p.4
Ms. Liberty:"So Granpa finally left me the keys to the city. It's about time!"
ftp://ftp.coh.com/comics/topcow/comic_18.pdf p.24
"I always figured your arrogance would be your undoing" says the villain to Ms. Liberty... even the baddies have her pegged.
It is a lousy depiction. I do not care for it.
"How do you know you are on the side of good?" a Paragon citizen asked him. "How can we even know what is 'good'?"
"The Most High has spoken, even with His own blood," Melancton replied. "Surely we know."
Some examples of Ms. Liberty as a transparently-scripted no-redeeming-value superhero-princess-mean-girl:
ftp://ftp.coh.com/comics/topcow/comic_16.pdf p.7 Ms. Liberty: What the HELL are you talking about? Statesman: Jessica! Watch your language! Ms. Liberty: Bite me. |
![Stick Out Tongue](images/smilies/tongue.gif)
She also expresses concern for Statesman's safety just a couple of panels later - plus Statesman makes zero follow up to her "bite me" comment, even though it would seem to be a direct personal attack, rather than her vague use of the word "hell" - it comes across more as an exchange that they've had several times before, that neither of them treats totally seriously.
ftp://ftp.coh.com/comics/topcow/comic_17.pdf p.4 Ms. Liberty:"So Granpa finally left me the keys to the city. It's about time!" |
And her follow-up to this oh-so-serious bid for power is to check up on what her friends are doing, then go help them protect the city - which is the responsibility that Statesman gave her when he was away.
ftp://ftp.coh.com/comics/topcow/comic_18.pdf p.24 "I always figured your arrogance would be your undoing" says the villain to Ms. Liberty... even the baddies have her pegged. |
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
Some examples of Ms. Liberty as a transparently-scripted no-redeeming-value superhero-princess-mean-girl:
ftp://ftp.coh.com/comics/topcow/comic_16.pdf p.7 Ms. Liberty: What the HELL are you talking about? Statesman: Jessica! Watch your language! Ms. Liberty: Bite me. (The above gets Double Word Bonus for depicting Statesman as a prissy Oh My Rosebud Ears old fogey as well.) |
![Stick Out Tongue](images/smilies/tongue.gif)
GG, those three were the tip of the iceberg, and your response tells me you are arguing just to be arguing.
"How do you know you are on the side of good?" a Paragon citizen asked him. "How can we even know what is 'good'?"
"The Most High has spoken, even with His own blood," Melancton replied. "Surely we know."
I will say this much: to my knowledge, more than half of Ms. Liberty's Prissiness is towards villains, and be honest, how many times have you imagined your characters following up their victory over an AV with "SUCK IT!" and a kick to the loins?
Also, she can't be ENTIRELY blamed for things her ORGANIZATION does, though she definitely needs to reevaluate the recruits, definitely needs to try to hide her efforts in the Isles better, etc.
Though the rest cannot be justified so easily.
Also, I could totally make a better longbow unit structure if given the chance with better uniforms, and Ms. Liberty's clearly stressed and already has a lot on her plate with the Vindicators...
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Ah, you typically told your grandfather "Bite me", eh? Perhaps it was "Bite me
![]() |
![Stick Out Tongue](images/smilies/tongue.gif)
GG, those three were the tip of the iceberg |
![Wink](images/smilies/wink.gif)
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
I can't remember the source, but, I thought Ghost Falcon in Peregrine was the Praetorian version of Patrick Duncan who was killed or is MIA. It's doubtful that Hero 1's Praetorian double is Ghost Falcon.
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As far as I know, Patrick Duncan's hero identity (if any) has never been officially revealed, either in the books, comics or game, and I was just speculating. The Freedom Phalanx novel, happening in 1986, suggests that Alexis and Jessica were living alone, so it's likely that Duncan was either dead or missing by then, or at least forced to be away from his family.
I am - what are the examples of Ms. Liberty being unpleasant in the game?
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Ah, you typically told your grandfather "Bite me", eh? Perhaps it was "Bite me
![]() |
I've offered my parents and grandparents plenty of backtalk when it's been needed
![]() |
![Stick Out Tongue](images/smilies/tongue.gif)
Golden Girl: Bite me
![Stick Out Tongue](images/smilies/tongue.gif)
Dad: Thanks, I needed that!
![Stick Out Tongue](images/smilies/tongue.gif)
You grew up in a Hollywood sitcom, did you?
Let's see some more then, if there's so much of it ![]() |
Then we can make frivolous non-sequiturs and demand further proof.
Ms. Liberty's portrayal is revolting. I do not care for it. Since you think it is wonderful, make your case.
"How do you know you are on the side of good?" a Paragon citizen asked him. "How can we even know what is 'good'?"
"The Most High has spoken, even with His own blood," Melancton replied. "Surely we know."
Dad: Good morning, Golden Girl
![]() Golden Girl: Bite me ![]() Dad: Thanks, I needed that! ![]() You grew up in a Hollywood sitcom, did you? |
![Stick Out Tongue](images/smilies/tongue.gif)
I have a better idea. Why don't YOU make the case that the portrayal of Ms. Liberty is that of a noble, pleasant, co-operative and self-sacrificing superheroine and provide copious citations for it? Then we can make frivolous non-sequiturs and demand further proof. Ms. Liberty's portrayal is revolting. I do not care for it. Since you think it is wonderful, make your case. |
![Wink](images/smilies/wink.gif)
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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It is Vanguard's opinion that Longbow is trying to subvert them, but then again the way we learn this is in discovering a rogue cell within Vanguard that is trying to destroy the universe. Doesn't seem to me that even if Ms. Liberty were involved that she would be such a horrible "mean girl" on this one.
Invading the rogue isles is objectionable in much the same way any international police action against a despotic regime would be, I suppose.
Not that I particularly care whether people have the wrong impression about the virtues of a fictional character, but she "had a hissy fit" at Manticore because her mother had just been murdered right in front of him, for all she knew without him trying to stop it. Come to think of it, what exactly was he doing to stop it? His transparent desire to assassinate their prisoner does not seem to conform to the usual definition of "helping," either.
It is Vanguard's opinion that Longbow is trying to subvert them, but then again the way we learn this is in discovering a rogue cell within Vanguard that is trying to destroy the universe. Doesn't seem to me that even if Ms. Liberty were involved that she would be such a horrible "mean girl" on this one. Invading the rogue isles is objectionable in much the same way any international police action against a despotic regime would be, I suppose. |
Actually if I remember the arc correctly, even AFTER Longbow is informed that it appears to be a rogue cell operating (Through Lt. Seku (sp?) teaming with you), blondie still demands that Vanguard step down and Longbow Step in and control the RWZ. Why? Because from the start Ms. Liberty believed that it should be her and NOT the international community (IE Vanguard) that should contain the Rikti, simply because she can do it better in her mind.
That's not TOO arrogant and self-important is it? Noooo. Her idea of Justice is repeatedly appearing to be "Just shut up and Do as I say because I'M the hero and you're NOT". That is borderline Despotism IMHO.
![](http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/3910/draeon.png)
"Well, there's going to be some light music and a short note of apology saying, 'The universe ended last week, we're really sorry, we don't know what you're doing here, didn't you get the message?'"- Steve Moffat
Also the Driller Badge in Port Oakes
"Three years ago, Ms. Liberty smashed the supervillain Thermonuke through the deck and into the volatile crude below. Thermonuke's devastating powers ignited the oil and cracked open the Cairo Queen like a pixie stick."
So 3 Years later the wreckage is still there, there's still oil in the water and, although she defeated(killed?) the villain she hasn't bothered to clean up the mess she made.
Not to totally derail the conversation, but am I to understand that Miss Liberty, i.e. Alexis Cole, has been killed?
Even Manticore has the good sense to keep his illegal mercenaries secret because he knows it's illegal.
Ms. Liberty believes might makes right, which betrays the code of the knights that once gathered around the bearer of the sword she wears. She is the ultimate vigilante. And her family wasn't happy with her establishment of Longbow.
She let her Praetorian double go because she believes so much in her own rightness, she is incapable of believing an evil doppelganger of herself could really be bad. I'm sure the Destroyers in Nova Praetoria thank her for her faith in Praetor Duncan.
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Not to totally derail the conversation, but am I to understand that Miss Liberty, i.e. Alexis Cole, has been killed?
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![Stick Out Tongue](images/smilies/tongue.gif)
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
Ms. Liberty's portrayal is revolting. I do not care for it. Since you think it is wonderful, make your case.
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You are arguing just to be arguing.
"How do you know you are on the side of good?" a Paragon citizen asked him. "How can we even know what is 'good'?"
"The Most High has spoken, even with His own blood," Melancton replied. "Surely we know."
Not to totally derail the conversation, but am I to understand that Miss Liberty, i.e. Alexis Cole, has been killed?
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How that backstory for Alexis Cole gives her any association with Freedom Corps or Jingle Jets is beyond me, but then we already know that the current policy is "screw the old lore, that was someone else's game and we're in charge now". Sadly, there will be people who will justify that as being perfectly in line with what happens with comic books and they'll be correct about the comparison. (Not that the justification is valid, no matter how correct the analogy is.)
Yes, I know about Statesman dieing, and as far as I can tell it's for the same reasons - Out with the old. The last vestiges of the Old Republic have been swept away. Whatever. I'm looking pretty good for winning the Dead Pool, so I can't really say that I didn't see it coming.