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If there's one thing SSA has taught me...

AzureSkyCiel

By AzureSkyCiel,
Posted on: 2012-01-01 24:01 in CoH and CoV General Discussions

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Melancton View Post
Why would a noble hero give Excalibur to Ms. Liberty for safe-keeping? She is depicted as such a mega Bee-yotch 24/7 that I cannot imagine what prompted him to do that. Perhaps he will turn out to be an idiot. He would have to be to give that storied sword to what she is depicted as.
Hero One will probably turn out to be Patrick Duncan (her father and Alexis' husband), and he gave her the sword because "she reminded him of himself when he was that age", meaning rash and impulsive and eager to fix the world by punching bad guys in the face.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zemblanity View Post
Hero One will probably turn out to be Patrick Duncan (her father and Alexis' husband), and he gave her the sword because "she reminded him of himself when he was that age", meaning rash and impulsive and eager to fix the world by punching bad guys in the face.
I can't remember the source, but, I thought Ghost Falcon in Peregrine was the Praetorian version of Patrick Duncan who was killed or is MIA. It's doubtful that Hero 1's Praetorian double is Ghost Falcon.

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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Melancton View Post
Why would a noble hero give Excalibur to Ms. Liberty for safe-keeping? She is depicted as such a mega Bee-yotch 24/7 that I cannot imagine what prompted him to do that. Perhaps he will turn out to be an idiot.
I have a low opinion of him, purely on the basis of his costume.
It sucks like a tornado.

(The helmet is cool, but the rest of it blows.)

Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by EarthWyrm View Post
You forgot the ponytail. Nothing simultaneously says "I can haz supervillainy?" and "I fathered a 'Jersey Shore' cast member" quite like a slicked-back ponytail.
True story:

I once was in a tabletop gaming group and one of our members had:

-Ponytail
-Dark glasses
-Goatee

He was the stereotypical villaintype and also hatched a plan to turn Ottawa into a giant battery for his purposes; it's been a while but I think he was going to use the Ottawa River/Rideau Canal and fill it with acid/other stuff so he could go thermonuclear. Since all of us would get a cut of the proceeds, we encouraged this to no end.

Questions about the game, either side? /t @Neuronia or @Neuronium, with your queries!
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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden Girl View Post
I am - what are the examples of Ms. Liberty being unpleasant in the game?
  • She's set up a paramilitary group and invaded a part of the Rogue Isles.
  • She's taken a hissy fit over her grandfather taking a leave, leading to...
  • Her refusal to allow a Freedom Phalanx member to help with Malaise.
  • Oh, she's also got a group of Longbow trying to subert the Vanguard.
Ho hum, not much there to look at.

Questions about the game, either side? /t @Neuronia or @Neuronium, with your queries!
168760: A Death in the Gish. 3 missions, 1-14. Easy to solo.
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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gemesis View Post
http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Regulators

The Regulators, or The Vindicators? Regulators were BAB's team with Blue Steel.
Thats what I get for posting pre-coffee



"Well, there's going to be some light music and a short note of apology saying, 'The universe ended last week, we're really sorry, we don't know what you're doing here, didn't you get the message?'"- Steve Moffat

 

Posted

Some examples of Ms. Liberty as a transparently-scripted no-redeeming-value superhero-princess-mean-girl:

ftp://ftp.coh.com/comics/topcow/comic_16.pdf p.7
Ms. Liberty: What the HELL are you talking about?
Statesman: Jessica! Watch your language!
Ms. Liberty: Bite me.

(The above gets Double Word Bonus for depicting Statesman as a prissy Oh My Rosebud Ears old fogey as well.)

ftp://ftp.coh.com/comics/topcow/comic_17.pdf p.4
Ms. Liberty:"So Granpa finally left me the keys to the city. It's about time!"

ftp://ftp.coh.com/comics/topcow/comic_18.pdf p.24
"I always figured your arrogance would be your undoing" says the villain to Ms. Liberty... even the baddies have her pegged.

It is a lousy depiction. I do not care for it.

"How do you know you are on the side of good?" a Paragon citizen asked him. "How can we even know what is 'good'?"

"The Most High has spoken, even with His own blood," Melancton replied. "Surely we know."

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Melancton View Post
Some examples of Ms. Liberty as a transparently-scripted no-redeeming-value superhero-princess-mean-girl:

ftp://ftp.coh.com/comics/topcow/comic_16.pdf p.7
Ms. Liberty: What the HELL are you talking about?
Statesman: Jessica! Watch your language!
Ms. Liberty: Bite me.
So backtalk to your family is forbidden?
She also expresses concern for Statesman's safety just a couple of panels later - plus Statesman makes zero follow up to her "bite me" comment, even though it would seem to be a direct personal attack, rather than her vague use of the word "hell" - it comes across more as an exchange that they've had several times before, that neither of them treats totally seriously.

Quote:
ftp://ftp.coh.com/comics/topcow/comic_17.pdf p.4
Ms. Liberty:"So Granpa finally left me the keys to the city. It's about time!"
To assume that her remark is serious would mean that we'd also have to assume that she's under the impresison that Statesman somehow rules Paragon City, and can turn it over to her anytime he likes.
And her follow-up to this oh-so-serious bid for power is to check up on what her friends are doing, then go help them protect the city - which is the responsibility that Statesman gave her when he was away.

Quote:
ftp://ftp.coh.com/comics/topcow/comic_18.pdf p.24
"I always figured your arrogance would be your undoing" says the villain to Ms. Liberty... even the baddies have her pegged.
Vilalins accusing heroes of being arrogant is pretty standard - it's one of those words like "insolent" or "impertinent" that mosutache twirlers use when they're challenged by heroes.

@Golden Girl

City of Heroes comics and artwork

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Melancton View Post
Some examples of Ms. Liberty as a transparently-scripted no-redeeming-value superhero-princess-mean-girl:

ftp://ftp.coh.com/comics/topcow/comic_16.pdf p.7
Ms. Liberty: What the HELL are you talking about?
Statesman: Jessica! Watch your language!
Ms. Liberty: Bite me.

(The above gets Double Word Bonus for depicting Statesman as a prissy Oh My Rosebud Ears old fogey as well.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden Girl View Post
So backtalk to your family is forbidden?
Ah, you typically told your grandfather "Bite me", eh? Perhaps it was "Bite me ". That would explain why you don't see that as any big deal.

GG, those three were the tip of the iceberg, and your response tells me you are arguing just to be arguing.

"How do you know you are on the side of good?" a Paragon citizen asked him. "How can we even know what is 'good'?"

"The Most High has spoken, even with His own blood," Melancton replied. "Surely we know."

 

Posted

I will say this much: to my knowledge, more than half of Ms. Liberty's Prissiness is towards villains, and be honest, how many times have you imagined your characters following up their victory over an AV with "SUCK IT!" and a kick to the loins?
Also, she can't be ENTIRELY blamed for things her ORGANIZATION does, though she definitely needs to reevaluate the recruits, definitely needs to try to hide her efforts in the Isles better, etc.

Though the rest cannot be justified so easily.

Also, I could totally make a better longbow unit structure if given the chance with better uniforms, and Ms. Liberty's clearly stressed and already has a lot on her plate with the Vindicators...

Vote for me for Director of Longbow!

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow View Post
City of Heroes is a game about freedom of expression and variety of experiences far more so than it is about representing any one theme, topic or genre.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Melancton View Post
Ah, you typically told your grandfather "Bite me", eh? Perhaps it was "Bite me ". That would explain why you don't see that as any big deal.
I've offered my parents and grandparents plenty of backtalk when it's been needed

Quote:
GG, those three were the tip of the iceberg
Let's see some more then, if there's so much of it

@Golden Girl

City of Heroes comics and artwork

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombie Man View Post
I can't remember the source, but, I thought Ghost Falcon in Peregrine was the Praetorian version of Patrick Duncan who was killed or is MIA. It's doubtful that Hero 1's Praetorian double is Ghost Falcon.
Ghost Falcon is the Praetorian version of Invisible Falcon.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombie Man View Post
I can't remember the source, but, I thought Ghost Falcon in Peregrine was the Praetorian version of Patrick Duncan who was killed or is MIA. It's doubtful that Hero 1's Praetorian double is Ghost Falcon.
If you mean Invisible Falcon, the hero that disappeared in the 90's, I don't think it's ever mentioned that he's Patrick Duncan. Gordon Stacy just says his cousin is looking for him. If he were Ms. Liberty's father, Miss Liberty's husband and Statesman's son in law, I don't think it would be just his cousin looking.

As far as I know, Patrick Duncan's hero identity (if any) has never been officially revealed, either in the books, comics or game, and I was just speculating. The Freedom Phalanx novel, happening in 1986, suggests that Alexis and Jessica were living alone, so it's likely that Duncan was either dead or missing by then, or at least forced to be away from his family.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden Girl View Post
I am - what are the examples of Ms. Liberty being unpleasant in the game?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Melancton View Post
Ah, you typically told your grandfather "Bite me", eh? Perhaps it was "Bite me ". That would explain why you don't see that as any big deal.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden Girl View Post
I've offered my parents and grandparents plenty of backtalk when it's been needed
Dad: Good morning, Golden Girl
Golden Girl: Bite me
Dad: Thanks, I needed that!

You grew up in a Hollywood sitcom, did you?

Quote:
Let's see some more then, if there's so much of it
I have a better idea. Why don't YOU make the case that the portrayal of Ms. Liberty is that of a noble, pleasant, co-operative and self-sacrificing superheroine and provide copious citations for it?

Then we can make frivolous non-sequiturs and demand further proof.

Ms. Liberty's portrayal is revolting. I do not care for it. Since you think it is wonderful, make your case.

"How do you know you are on the side of good?" a Paragon citizen asked him. "How can we even know what is 'good'?"

"The Most High has spoken, even with His own blood," Melancton replied. "Surely we know."

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Melancton View Post
Dad: Good morning, Golden Girl
Golden Girl: Bite me
Dad: Thanks, I needed that!

You grew up in a Hollywood sitcom, did you?
I said "when it's been needed"

Quote:
I have a better idea. Why don't YOU make the case that the portrayal of Ms. Liberty is that of a noble, pleasant, co-operative and self-sacrificing superheroine and provide copious citations for it?

Then we can make frivolous non-sequiturs and demand further proof.

Ms. Liberty's portrayal is revolting. I do not care for it. Since you think it is wonderful, make your case.
Innocent until proven guilty - all heroes should know that

@Golden Girl

City of Heroes comics and artwork

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuronia View Post
  • She's set up a paramilitary group and invaded a part of the Rogue Isles.
  • She's taken a hissy fit over her grandfather taking a leave, leading to...
  • Her refusal to allow a Freedom Phalanx member to help with Malaise.
  • Oh, she's also got a group of Longbow trying to subert the Vanguard.
Ho hum, not much there to look at.
Not that I particularly care whether people have the wrong impression about the virtues of a fictional character, but she "had a hissy fit" at Manticore because her mother had just been murdered right in front of him, for all she knew without him trying to stop it. Come to think of it, what exactly was he doing to stop it? His transparent desire to assassinate their prisoner does not seem to conform to the usual definition of "helping," either.

It is Vanguard's opinion that Longbow is trying to subvert them, but then again the way we learn this is in discovering a rogue cell within Vanguard that is trying to destroy the universe. Doesn't seem to me that even if Ms. Liberty were involved that she would be such a horrible "mean girl" on this one.

Invading the rogue isles is objectionable in much the same way any international police action against a despotic regime would be, I suppose.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle View Post
Not that I particularly care whether people have the wrong impression about the virtues of a fictional character, but she "had a hissy fit" at Manticore because her mother had just been murdered right in front of him, for all she knew without him trying to stop it. Come to think of it, what exactly was he doing to stop it? His transparent desire to assassinate their prisoner does not seem to conform to the usual definition of "helping," either.

It is Vanguard's opinion that Longbow is trying to subvert them, but then again the way we learn this is in discovering a rogue cell within Vanguard that is trying to destroy the universe. Doesn't seem to me that even if Ms. Liberty were involved that she would be such a horrible "mean girl" on this one.

Invading the rogue isles is objectionable in much the same way any international police action against a despotic regime would be, I suppose.

Actually if I remember the arc correctly, even AFTER Longbow is informed that it appears to be a rogue cell operating (Through Lt. Seku (sp?) teaming with you), blondie still demands that Vanguard step down and Longbow Step in and control the RWZ. Why? Because from the start Ms. Liberty believed that it should be her and NOT the international community (IE Vanguard) that should contain the Rikti, simply because she can do it better in her mind.

That's not TOO arrogant and self-important is it? Noooo. Her idea of Justice is repeatedly appearing to be "Just shut up and Do as I say because I'M the hero and you're NOT". That is borderline Despotism IMHO.



"Well, there's going to be some light music and a short note of apology saying, 'The universe ended last week, we're really sorry, we don't know what you're doing here, didn't you get the message?'"- Steve Moffat

 

Posted

Also the Driller Badge in Port Oakes

"Three years ago, Ms. Liberty smashed the supervillain Thermonuke through the deck and into the volatile crude below. Thermonuke's devastating powers ignited the oil and cracked open the Cairo Queen like a pixie stick."

So 3 Years later the wreckage is still there, there's still oil in the water and, although she defeated(killed?) the villain she hasn't bothered to clean up the mess she made.

 

Posted

Not to totally derail the conversation, but am I to understand that Miss Liberty, i.e. Alexis Cole, has been killed?

 

Posted

Even Manticore has the good sense to keep his illegal mercenaries secret because he knows it's illegal.

Ms. Liberty believes might makes right, which betrays the code of the knights that once gathered around the bearer of the sword she wears. She is the ultimate vigilante. And her family wasn't happy with her establishment of Longbow.

She let her Praetorian double go because she believes so much in her own rightness, she is incapable of believing an evil doppelganger of herself could really be bad. I'm sure the Destroyers in Nova Praetoria thank her for her faith in Praetor Duncan.

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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by SlickRiptide View Post
Not to totally derail the conversation, but am I to understand that Miss Liberty, i.e. Alexis Cole, has been killed?
Yes - in part 3 of the Signature Story Arc "Who Will Die" - and in the upcoming part 5, and even bigger name is going down

@Golden Girl

City of Heroes comics and artwork

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Melancton View Post
Ms. Liberty's portrayal is revolting. I do not care for it. Since you think it is wonderful, make your case.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden Girl View Post
Innocent until proven guilty - all heroes should know that
Yeah, you got nothing.

You are arguing just to be arguing.

"How do you know you are on the side of good?" a Paragon citizen asked him. "How can we even know what is 'good'?"

"The Most High has spoken, even with His own blood," Melancton replied. "Surely we know."

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by SlickRiptide View Post
Not to totally derail the conversation, but am I to understand that Miss Liberty, i.e. Alexis Cole, has been killed?

Correct

SSA3 for the details

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombie Man View Post
*sigh* If I hadn't already ragequit once over forum censorship then that story arc would probably have me doing it now. I'll save everybody yet another rant about how the Powers That Be are so smegging tight with the back-story that nobody would actually have any idea that Alexis would have that sort of position or background. Not that it matters, now, apparently.

How that backstory for Alexis Cole gives her any association with Freedom Corps or Jingle Jets is beyond me, but then we already know that the current policy is "screw the old lore, that was someone else's game and we're in charge now". Sadly, there will be people who will justify that as being perfectly in line with what happens with comic books and they'll be correct about the comparison. (Not that the justification is valid, no matter how correct the analogy is.)

Yes, I know about Statesman dieing, and as far as I can tell it's for the same reasons - Out with the old. The last vestiges of the Old Republic have been swept away. Whatever. I'm looking pretty good for winning the Dead Pool, so I can't really say that I didn't see it coming.