Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
Your concept is chosen for you, and you have a very limited selection of powers.
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To those who want an AT with Blast Primary and Defense Secondary:
I've had fun with my Blaster concepts.
Walker Gray - Smart-alec, half-human Sorceror from another dimension whose natural mystical talents lay in fire and psionics. Perfect Fire/MM Blaster, and he's later branched out into Mind/Fire and Mind/Energy Dominaters. Wicked fast AoE machine, with fun mez powers to boot.
Babel Wave - Neurology student whose body and mind were altered in an experiment gone awry. He can comprehend and speak in all languages as well as utilize the unusual waveform energy permeating his body for communicating by thoughts or even for self-defense. Sonic/MM Blaster, and a fun Cone monster.
Bodok - Mercenary who has, over the years, acquired an affinity for advanced technological weaponry. With a suit of bleeding edge armor and a hi Beam Rifle, he's not exactly subtle without highly specialized modified gear. Beam/Energy Blaster, and able to burn down ground of enemies extremely well from a safe distance.
Evil-Eyes - A young man who was kidnapped and unknowingly turned into the avatar for a Lovecraftian Horror in our dimension. The ritual also permanently altered his physical appearance, turning his skin blue with red sigils and his hair green. After returning to his plane of existence by sheer luck, he works as a private investigator, putting his strange and dangerous new powers to use locating missing people. All the while he lives in our world, the voice of his "patron" whispers in his ear, demanding violence and chaos. Dark/Dark Blaster. Nice Blaptroller, and a solid ST killer.
Too many alts to list.
Crabs do make pretty good tank mages. My crab is damn well IOed. No purples yet. But I still do some pretty good DPS. I can tank all trials. Done all TFs tanking. Some SFs. And I farm pretty well as well too.
Blasters are my favorite, and 'Goto' AT of choice.
That said, closest thing I've got to a Tankmage in game would have to be my
MFing WarShade!
Maestro Mavius - Infinity
Capt. Biohazrd - PCSAR
Talsor Tech - Talsorian Guard
Keep Calm & Chive On!
A blaster's REAL defense is staying active and aware of the surroundings. I understand the dev desire to make basic blasters no defense and little resistance and I'm good with that. What makes absolutely no sense is that mez stops a blaster cold (or rather neuters them down to level 1) and that no blaster power set gives you tools to avoid, prevent, or escape from mez. As prolific as mez is in this game that says bad design to me.
Now add in that we have F2P and those of us that pay to play. Mez with no tools to avoid it means I pay not to play. That's a bad dev choice in terms of marketing. |
what do you think about this?
Gitch
It would still suck to play DP/Devices or AR/Devices since you still wouldn't have any.
As it stands right now the best defense for blasters vs most mezzes is to spend LOTS of influence and soft cap ranged defense. That's only really viable as a post 50 strategy. Long past the time that you really need it.
It could also be tied to defiance, every defiance icon you have adds +1 mez protection for it's duration. Problem here is that you are still vulnerable to the Alpha Mez since you won't have enough defiance built up to prevent the mez and by the time you do (since you can still only activate 3 powers while mezzed) it will be too late, same as it is now.
When they did the blaster defiance revamp I suggested that Defiance be a toggle. When toggled on it would give a 25% boost to damage and a 25% boost to recovery. When toggled off it would give mag 4 mez protection and (since they nerfed hover and acrobatics) it should also give mag 4 KB protection and it should give a 25% boost to regen. It should be coded as an offensive toggle so that if you are mezzed the toggle drops and the mez protection kicks in. It's still a simple solution to the most debilitating blaster issue.
-Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. - Albert Einstein.
-I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo Galilei
-When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty. - Thomas Jefferson
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
Here's the thing. It doesn't matter whether or not your think it would be an OP tankmage. The devs have shown via the limitations they put on the Epic ATs THEY believe it would be an OP tankmage. Or they strongly suggest that.
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We are called "SUPER" heroes and/or villains. We are not magi. We are not bound by the same rules that govern all other MMOs. Therefore, it would stand to reason that, while each AT is designed to function along a certain role, all ATs can do amazing things that often cross paths with what other ATs do. Yes, each AT has an area (or role) which they fill best. But, no team or player is stuck in the holy trio that other games put you in.
On the other hand, I have run across people who seem totally oblivious or unwilling to recognize that there are specific roles that need to be filled on a team. And, because of that ignorance or unwillingness, the team is made to suffer when they shouldn't. So, in that sense, there are extremes on both sides.
But, over all, if people stopped trying so hard to compare us with other, more trio-strict games, then they might stop trying to ask the developers to give them things they shouldn't have.
Oh, and if you want an AT with Blasts in the primary and defenses secondary... We have those in the form of VEATs, Corruptors (to some extent), and Kheldians.
@ Dr Gemini
�If we would come together and be great role models, it would be amazing to see how the next generation turns out.� |
This is exactly what people predicted would happen when they changed Blasters allowing them to use tier 1 and 2 attacks while mezzed. People would want full fledged mezz protection for Blasters as well as more defense/resistance. I don't think the devs want anything near this kind of deal for Blasters.
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A blaster's mitigation "should" come from staying active and from the secondary effects in their power set(s). The problem point here is the staying active part. Mez stops you from staying active (ie: not letting a mob close to melee where their attacks really hurt you), it stops you from activating any powers which prevents any mitigation from secondary power effects, and (with the exception of Body Armor from Munitions Mastery) all defense/resistance toggles suppress when mezzed which is exactly when you need them most.
Being mezzed for a blaster is a huge "you lose button." You lose everything that makes you a blaster for the entire duration of the mez (which is longer than it takes to kill you a majority of the time.) All the new defiance means is that you've been neutered down to a level 1 when mezzed. My blasters have never needed more defense, more resistance, or more damage. They've always needed what you can only get as an incarnate from your Destiny slot (Clarion).
-Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. - Albert Einstein.
-I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo Galilei
-When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty. - Thomas Jefferson
This is exactly what people predicted would happen when they changed Blasters allowing them to use tier 1 and 2 attacks while mezzed. People would want full fledged mezz protection for Blasters as well as more defense/resistance. I don't think the devs want anything near this kind of deal for Blasters.
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The same thing is happening with stalkers now. They should be doing a solid 10% to 15% more damage than scrappers just on the basis of their lower HP and nearly identical armor performance in an IO build.
It would still suck to play DP/Devices or AR/Devices since you still wouldn't have any.
As it stands right now the best defense for blasters vs most mezzes is to spend LOTS of influence and soft cap ranged defense. That's only really viable as a post 50 strategy. Long past the time that you really need it. It could also be tied to defiance, every defiance icon you have adds +1 mez protection for it's duration. Problem here is that you are still vulnerable to the Alpha Mez since you won't have enough defiance built up to prevent the mez and by the time you do (since you can still only activate 3 powers while mezzed) it will be too late, same as it is now. When they did the blaster defiance revamp I suggested that Defiance be a toggle. When toggled on it would give a 25% boost to damage and a 25% boost to recovery. When toggled off it would give mag 4 mez protection and (since they nerfed hover and acrobatics) it should also give mag 4 KB protection and it should give a 25% boost to regen. It should be coded as an offensive toggle so that if you are mezzed the toggle drops and the mez protection kicks in. It's still a simple solution to the most debilitating blaster issue. |
If Blasters did more damage or had better Secondaries I'd say they needed the Mez situation as a form of balance. As it stands I don't think they do enough damage to rate this 'balance' option.
Melee types have mez protection built in
Doms and Controllers have methods they can use to prevent from being mezzed in the first place.
Defenders have their Secondaries. MMs have pets that can act while the MM is mezzed.
Only Blasters are forced to rely on expensive builds, Incarnate powers and Insps to prevent mez. If they have to have it this way then IMHO they should do more damage to balance out.
"Comics, you're not a Mastermind...you're an Overlord!"
When I want a ranged, defensive toon, I just play a Defender, Corrupter or Dom. I think that's the Devs solution to the "problem" as well.
Yes, at levels 1-32 they are still pretty squishy. But healing at lower levels = defense (at least damage mitigation) when you consider how little defense a melee toon actually has at lower levels as well. That's why so many of them get higher HP as an offset.
But by the 40's, I've found I generate enough damage to rival a Blaster build and have oodles of defense, debuffs and damage mitigation tools at my disposal. I am not a Blaster (I have enough Blasters at 50 to know the difference) but I achieve the goal of a blasty defense toon. And although I know the OP was specifically speaking to "cheap" builds, it doesn't take a lot on a Corr or Dom to make a ranged toon with softcapped Ranged Defense (and usually with high recharge to boot). I've built several that were below 1B in influence. "Cheap" is relative, but to me, 1B for all powers fully IO'd is pretty dang cheap these days. LOTG's and Posi's alone cost that much anymore. Even if I stuck with SO's only, I'd likely be able to come up with something that while not softcapping defenses still had plenty of damage mitigation to 'emulate' high defense. And again, you have to do apples to apples here. Most Melee toons are sinking billions of influence into their builds to softcap also. I have a "cheap" Elec/SD scrapper that is softcapped AOE, Melee, S/L and Ranged and he still cost me about 1.5B to outfit with IO's.
The devs and the game encourage alts for a reason. If any one AT had it all, nobody would play the others and the longevity of the game would likely collapse. Tankmagery is just one aspect of the problem, but the real issue is longevity of the playerbase. That's why you have 7+ year vets...they still get to learn something new with a new alt.
But by the 40's, I've found I generate enough damage to rival a Blaster build and have oodles of defense, debuffs and damage mitigation tools at my disposal. |
This is the problem. Since Blasters are supposed to be the kings of damage you shouldn't be ABLE to get anywhere near Blaster damage with another AT and still have the 'defense, debuffs and damage mitigation tools.' Other ATs should be paying for all the other stuff they enjoy with less damage. Or Blasters should have more damage because they DON'T have access to all that stuff without a mega-expensive build or Incarnate Powers.
"Comics, you're not a Mastermind...you're an Overlord!"
This is the problem. Since Blasters are supposed to be the kings of damage you shouldn't be ABLE to get anywhere near Blaster damage with another AT and still have the 'defense, debuffs and damage mitigation tools.' Other ATs should be paying for all the other stuff they enjoy with less damage. Or Blasters should have more damage because they DON'T have access to all that stuff without a mega-expensive build or Incarnate Powers.
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And the other ATs do pay for their tools as I've already described. Typically in lesser damage as they level from 1-40 as they can't afford to only slot damage (as a blaster can). They must invest in these tools as much as their attacks. It's only the late game where slots are plentiful enough that they can build up their offense.
Go play a Def, Corr or Dom from 1-40 and then compare it to your worst blaster build. Far more survivable sure, but you will definitely notice that the days of two shotting something takes longer as you've got to set up your debuffs just right.
Blasters are fantastic damage dealers because that's all you have to slot. If you suddenly had all these other defensive powers available, what attacks would you skip/ not slot to use them? And in doing so, hurt your DPS even further?
Your solution lies in the form of another AT. But don't be surprised to learn you miss the clickety-click death dealing (and near-death lifestyle) of a blaster. There is no other AT that can boast that almost every power they have deals direct damage.
I dont know why, but I really want to play a control primary with a defensive secondary. Call the AT Crowd Control.
1. Single target immob melee
2. Single target hold melee
3. Powerbuild Up
4. PBAoE immob melee
5. Taunt
6. Single Target Fear
7. PBAoE Stun Melee
8. PBAoE Hold Melee
9. Single Companion Pet(Controllable)
It will do more damage than Controller/Dominator; however have a lower mez mag.
Proton Sentry Peacebringer:lvl 50+++ - Human Build / Triform Build
Quasar Sentry Warshade:lvl 50+- Human Build / Triform Build
Red Katipo Arachnos Soldier:lvl 50+++ - Crab Build / Bane Build
Black Katipo Arachnos Widowlvl 50+++ - Fortunata Build / Night Widow Build
Here's the thing. It doesn't matter whether or not your think it would be an OP tankmage. The devs have shown via the limitations they put on the Epic ATs THEY believe it would be an OP tankmage. Or they strongly suggest that.
That said: Once upon a time I posted the build I was using on my Energy Blaster. It wasn't really a minmax build. Well, since then we have gotten Incarnate powers. I have respecced my energy blaster into a heavily minmaxed build. She had to give up Tactics, Hasten, and some +Range slotting on Power Burst and Energy Torrent. But in exchange she now has softcapped ranged defense, ok defense to everything else, of course keeps Temp Invuln and Force of Nature, retains capped HP, and still has good regen and decent endurance. She has Conserve Power and Force of Nature if end becomes an issue. She also has perma mez protection from Clarion Destiny. Between set bonuses, Musculature Alpha and Assault her attacks do around +140% damage Before Aim/Build Up/Defiance (meaning she does slightly better damage overall than was possible before Enhancement Diminishing Returns were implemented). I am not trying to say "we already have the range/defense archetype". I recognize that people want this at lvl 1 without huge investments of inf and time (I spent a lot of both on my blaster). I'm just pointing out that if you are willing to wait and invest you can make a blaster nearly as tough as a scrapper without gimping its damage output. But my initial point I believe cannot really be argued: that the Devs think range/defense is overpowered without Severe limitations (on damage type among other things) is demonstrated not only by the design of the Epic Archetypes but also by the fact that they have not yet made such an archetype. To make it and have it be Neither A) gimped Nor B) overpowered is a balance nightmare. |
The only thing you can do with this character is grind tip missions and trials, which you can do with pretty much anything. So why would I bother suffering through 50 levels of constant mezzing and poor defenses just to be able to do the things that every other AT can already do?