Alignment Issues: No 20 Hour Cool Down Period with TIPs Mission.
By
Agent White,
Posted on: 2011-12-19 03:27 in Suggestions and Ideas
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It's completely irrelevant what I would think of a hypothetical "no xp" window.|
Originally Posted by New_Dark_Age
Its not irrelevant. Its the same thing.
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Originally Posted by New_Dark_Age
Claiming I am advocating there be "no limitations" is also a strawman.
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'I don't like the look of it at all,' said the King: 'however, it may kiss my hand if it likes.'
'I'd rather not,' the Cat remarked.
'Don't be impertinent,' said the King, 'and don't look at me like that!' He got behind Alice as he spoke.
'A cat may look at a king,' said Alice.
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Nonsense. The restriction had both thematic and practical reasons at the time, and the token is being added now because of people who complained about the inconvenience. The "instant change" is what makes no sense here.
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Originally Posted by New_Dark_Age
The 20 hour restriction is most likely for money reasons then. Whats funny is you have players in this thread defending a policy which was probably implemented to swindle them out of their money.
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'I don't like the look of it at all,' said the King: 'however, it may kiss my hand if it likes.'
'I'd rather not,' the Cat remarked.
'Don't be impertinent,' said the King, 'and don't look at me like that!' He got behind Alice as he spoke.
'A cat may look at a king,' said Alice.
Time to explain this issue directly, instead of veering off into the farming issues.
Why do tips have a 20-hour cool-down? Each tip mission you complete earns you one fame point towards the alignment you wish to be. This is considered to be a portion of the world who has heard of your deed and still remembers this. Apparently in the world of Paragon and the Rogue Isles, the populace can remember up to five things you've done in the recent past with impunity, then after that anything more you do simply gets ignored or forgotten by your other deeds.
The reason why a lot of news stories get stuffed in small columns in the middle of the paper or even left out entirely. Your first tip missions became the headline and secondary stories of the newspaper and there wasn't enough space to put in the several other deeds you could've done that day. Doing more tip missions isn't going to make that newspaper bigger.
You have to wait til your fame for the alignment becomes 'yesterday's news' before the figuative newspaper has space for the rest of your deeds and the breaking news story that finally puts everybody's mind that your character has turned (Morality mission). Outside of the game, the devs specifically stated that the alignment switching is NOT a light-switch you can turn off an on, that is also factored into 20-hour cooldown. As well as controlling the rate to which people can gain A-merits which can be quite lucrative to some folks.
Is the 20-hour cooldown fun, why put it in there if it's not fun? It's not supposed to be fun. There, I said it. It's not supposed to be fun it's supposed to stop you from earning too high a reward vs. time. There's going to be a new 'instant alignment change to Hero/Villain' token coming soon(tm) so if you ever wanted to do something similar in the future you can spend points to change your character's alignment without even having to do a single tip mission. It perhaps won't help you right now but it's in beta on the Paragon market right now if you don't believe me (Beta server, not Training).
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Oh, and before I forget. How would I feel if there was a 20-hour cooldown on XP gains? I'd be alright with it. GASP! WHY?! Because I play this game to have fun, not faff about and cry about numbers on a flickering screen. Most of my most enjoyable moments in the game came from things that didn't earn me a single point of XP, INF or even badge credit. Plus it would give me reason to finish all those obscure arcs that get neglected because of out-levelling content. Bonus for me since I haven't seen everything this game has to offer in my 2.5 years of playing.
I'd be pretty damn happy about it!
Home server: Victory
Characters on: Victory & Virtue
My first 50(0)! 18/11/11
@Oneirohero
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Originally Posted by New_Dark_Age
Yeah the recent information I came across about the token makes it unlikely they will fix the 20 hour restriction since players who want quick alignment changes would be very tempted to just pay for it.
The 20 hour restriction is most likely for money reasons then. Whats funny is you have players in this thread defending a policy which was probably implemented to swindle them out of their money. Ah the decline of reason........heralds the coming of a New Dark Age lol |
I really shouldn't...
Sometimes you just know a perspective is hopeless no matter what the facts...
*Shrugs*
The 20 hour cool-down timer is to prevent ME from being able to run countless morality missions and thereby, flood the market with Rares.
When the SSA's 1st came out, you could claim the A-Merit and then run it again and claim the A-Merit. This one ability to claim mulitple A-Merits destroyed the market for LoTG +7.5's.
They went from being worth 160 million at WW's to a measly 10 million, before climbing back up after the 'fix'.
That is the reason and it is a very reasonable one as well.
Now... That said...
I see no reason why the same coding that was added to the SSA's, the A-merit timer, couldn't be added to Tips as well. So you could still run Tip missions and get the morality, you just wouldn't be able to claim an A-Merit until the cooldown. Thereby stopping the potential exploit while still allowing progress.
Of course your right though, it's a moot issue at this point, with the advent of an Alignment change token being added to the store, there is no way they will change it now.
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Keep Calm & Chive On!
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Originally Posted by MajorPrankster
So?
You act like your logic is somehow above a group of people that manage to keep a financially stable game running. If you think that highly of your logic, then go prove them to be inferior. |
Yeah implementing a 20 hour restriction so they can tempt people to go to their online store and buy this alignment token is very economically logical.
Silly me, advocating against a change which was implemented to take peoples money.
I think the token is balanced by the fact that you can only change to the polar extreme of either alignment as well. Would I like to instantly change to a vigilante or rogue so I can run all content? Sure. But I understand why it is designed as is.
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I am not quite cynical enough to believe it was designed this way so they could eventually introduce a money grab.|
Originally Posted by New_Dark_Age
Yeah implementing a 20 hour restriction so they can tempt people to go to their online store and buy this alignment token is very economically logical.
Silly me, advocating against a change which was implemented to take peoples money. |
Even if it was, I don't really care. I would rather drop points on this than an non combat pet, no matter how many legs it has.
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So, how's your own game design coming along?
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Originally Posted by New_Dark_Age
Don't post in the suggestion forum then buddy. After all , if you have a problem you can design your own game. If you make a single....a single complaint after you posted this to me then you have proven to be a hypocrite.
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Where to find me after the end:
The Secret World - Arcadia - Shinzo
Rift - Faeblight - Bloodspeaker
LotRO - Gladden - Aranelion
STO - Holodeck - @Captain_Thiraas
Obviously, I don't care about NCSoft's forum rules, now.
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Going Rogue (and the Side-switching system with Tip missions) launched mid-August 2010. The token to instantly switch alignments is only just in beta late-December 2011. The devs have said they do plan issues about 1-3 expansions ahead of time, but that is at most 9-12 months ahead assuming they don't radically change their plans internally.|
Originally Posted by New_Dark_Age
Yeah implementing a 20 hour restriction so they can tempt people to go to their online store and buy this alignment token is very economically logical.
Silly me, advocating against a change which was implemented to take peoples money. |
I'll be ironic and say there no logical reason why selling the alignment-change token now nickel and dimes players because of the restrictions made to tip missions at the time, especially when they hadn't even thought of free-to-play/freenium models by the launch of Going Rogue.
Home server: Victory
Characters on: Victory & Virtue
My first 50(0)! 18/11/11
@Oneirohero
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Personally, I often don't care about the 'fame', alignment points, or 'making the newspaper bigger'... I just like the Tip missions and would like to continue doing them without having to wait. I would prefer it if the rewards had a cooldown but not the missions.
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Originally Posted by Oneirohero
Doing more tip missions isn't going to make that newspaper bigger.
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Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound
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That would be perfectly reasonable.
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Originally Posted by Tenzhi
I would prefer it if the rewards had a cooldown but not the missions.
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'I don't like the look of it at all,' said the King: 'however, it may kiss my hand if it likes.'
'I'd rather not,' the Cat remarked.
'Don't be impertinent,' said the King, 'and don't look at me like that!' He got behind Alice as he spoke.
'A cat may look at a king,' said Alice.
I don't like the mechanic of real time cooldowns for anything that happens within the game world. I understand the logic behind it... but I don't agree with it.
I gotta make pain. I gotta make things right. I gotta stop what's comin'. 'Least I gotta try.
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I'd agree to this, the tip missions in themselves are written a degree better than the scanpaper missions for Banks were and the same clue didn't give you just a carbon-copy of two missions for your choice because each one played rather differently to the other.
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Originally Posted by Tenzhi
Personally, I often don't care about the 'fame', alignment points, or 'making the newspaper bigger'... I just like the Tip missions and would like to continue doing them without having to wait. I would prefer it if the rewards had a cooldown but not the missions.
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Home server: Victory
Characters on: Victory & Virtue
My first 50(0)! 18/11/11
@Oneirohero
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I agree with the second statment.|
Originally Posted by Tenzhi
Sometimes I'd like to just be able to keep getting and doing Tip missions even if it didn't count towards getting my moral choice mission.
Also, I think we should have a way to get the villain epic powersets blueside without switching back and forth. |
That being said.
The cool down is in place to emulate the real world. If you were a famous cop for 2 years, then Decide you are now going to be a drug dealer. You're going to have to spend time building up a rep. Otherwise, you're not going to be trusted. But, in the real world, you can be 4 times as evil and spend half the time building a rep. But, that would mean you'd spend 8 times the effort to be good again. I would be fine with that option. become villain in a day, then take a month to become hero again. Sounds like a fair trade, and in the mean time. I can still do, iTrials, oro, AE, and RWZ. So, Not too much of a loss. an I can work on Villain merits/badges in that time.
I say all this as an example of: instead of JUST complaining about it. think of a solution, or secondary option for them to put in. Your point is to get a patron power, not to remove the cool down. How can they keep the cooldown they want, and the magnitude of alignment change, while you get your new power today.
Though, I still would like the option to "go under cover" to get details about villains
The rest of the game doesn't mysteriously disappear for those 20 hours. It's not like you can't do anything else. Also, you have to sleep and eat and go to the bathroom and go to work/school/socializing SOMETIME. Might as well be during that downtime.
It only takes two days for each alignment shift. Don't try to pass it off as any kind of hindrance. Two days. That's not long at all.
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Originally Posted by Dispari
I don't know why Dink thinks she's not as sexy as Jay was. In 5 posts she's already upstaged his entire career.
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Bad logic and game making there. Two days ? Why ? Cause you have to earn 500 million experience or something. No, its cause it wont let you make progress toward you alignment change for 20 hours.|
Originally Posted by Aggelakis
The rest of the game doesn't mysteriously disappear for those 20 hours. It's not like you can't do anything else. Also, you have to sleep and eat and go to the bathroom and go to work/school/socializing SOMETIME. Might as well be during that downtime.
It only takes two days for each alignment shift. Don't try to pass it off as any kind of hindrance. Two days. That's not long at all. |
Using your logic I can make a video game, put a 20 hour delay in the campaign mode, and then justify it by claiming you should go to work or play multiplayer.
Now that I got a little sleep, I have to say that the farming excuse used to justify the 20 hour restriction makes no sense. Having a three hour delay would be sufficient enough to stop this..but 20 hours ? Yeah its done for money reasons.
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Honestly, I don't care if we're limited to 5 tips in a 20 hour period for alignment change. |
Originally Posted by Jagged
Its there because of the Hero/Villain Merit and without the cool down people would farm them to death and flood the market with LotG Recharges or similar.
However they are adding an Instant Alignment Change token. Which may solve your problem. |
I'd just like to be able to rack up the 3 stored tip missions so I don't have to keep a radio/paper/contact mission open as a tip generation farm.
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
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No it's not. There's rationale there. YOU simply don't subscribe to it because it's inconvenient for YOU.|
Originally Posted by New_Dark_Age
Cool, next time don't be so parochial or try to play devils advocate trying to defend a hopeless position. As I said, putting a 20 hour brake on a character and forcing a player to spend days or weeks having to wait for alignment changes because of inability to run missions pertaining to that goal is completely and utterly irrational.
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The devs didn't want players flipping back and forth between alignments at will when the system first started.
Now, with F2P, they're going to monetize that desire. You can either spend 4 days flipping from full hero to full villain (or vice-versa), or you can pay real money for an alignment change token which will accomplish the same thing instantly.
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
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And you can.
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Originally Posted by New_Dark_Age
Using your logic I can make a video game, put a 20 hour delay in the campaign mode, and then justify it by claiming you should go to work or play multiplayer.
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'I don't like the look of it at all,' said the King: 'however, it may kiss my hand if it likes.'
'I'd rather not,' the Cat remarked.
'Don't be impertinent,' said the King, 'and don't look at me like that!' He got behind Alice as he spoke.
'A cat may look at a king,' said Alice.
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NCSoft and Paragon Studios are businesses. Not charities. They give you one way of earning it in game. Not convenient enough for you? Pay them money.|
Originally Posted by New_Dark_Age
Yeah its done for money reasons.
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Don't like it? BOO HOO!
There. That simple an unambiguous enough for you?
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
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Its inconvenient for everyone attempting to change alignments. What the hell are you talking about .
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Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
No it's not. There's rationale there. YOU simply don't subscribe to it because it's inconvenient for YOU.
The devs didn't want players flipping back and forth between alignments at will when the system first started. Now, with F2P, they're going to monetize that desire. You can either spend 4 days flipping from full hero to full villain (or vice-versa), or you can pay real money for an alignment change token which will accomplish the same thing instantly. |
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Oh god ..sigh
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Originally Posted by Aneko
And you can.
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Not at all. I've changed sides for nothing but a Patron power several times without complaining.
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Originally Posted by New_Dark_Age
Its inconvenient for everyone attempting to change alignments.
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'I don't like the look of it at all,' said the King: 'however, it may kiss my hand if it likes.'
'I'd rather not,' the Cat remarked.
'Don't be impertinent,' said the King, 'and don't look at me like that!' He got behind Alice as he spoke.
'A cat may look at a king,' said Alice.
Unfortunately, that means you will need to decide whether you are willing to pay for the option, or taking the long route and dealing with cool down periods.
Needless to say, they wont get rid of the cool down because they have found a way to make us pay for the convenience.
Now if it is because you love the missions so much that you just can't get enough of them, and want to run 40 of them in a row, you will still be sol.
Breathe man.
The 20 hour restriction is most likely for money reasons then. Whats funny is you have players in this thread defending a policy which was probably implemented to swindle them out of their money.
Ah the decline of reason........heralds the coming of a New Dark Age lol