My Opinion On Stalkers

I was wrong.

... ... ... Let that sink in a minute. I was wrong that stalkers needed higher damage modifiers, hit points, and crits. I was wrong that the demoralize effect helped. I was wrong because these things are, fundamentally, pointless. A slightly improved damage modifier, or slightly increased hit points, or the rare critical hit, will not significantly improve the lives of stalkers.

You are wrong.

I've seen the rants. "Oh, higher hit point cap please!" "Better Build Up please!" "Put AoE's back in please!" "Where's mah Quick Recovery?!" The fact is, none of these will work to solve the stalker's underlying problems. There will always be the perception - an emphasis on the word - that the stalker AT is so utterly borked that it is beyond fixing.

The devs are wrong.

I've seen what the devs plan to do for ... uh, what issue are we on? Ah yes, issue 22. Let's see... AS out of hide becomes a decent-sized attack with little wind-up time, HP cap increased, and the chance to crit with AS out of hide is bumped up significantly by successive attacks. How bloody droll. The devs have taken upon this quixotic journey with ... tweaks.

No. I hereby posit that the stalker AT is 'broken' beyond all repair, because its fundamental concept is contrary to the game. It is an AT dependent on interruptible power activation in a game that thrives on motion-based combat. It is an AT designed for single-target assault in a game built for little more than slaughtering minions en masse. It is an AT whose main goal in life is the sudden evisceration of large-scale threats, when it is well-known that there exist no large-scale threats which may be suddenly eviscerated by stalkers in this game. To expand: bosses are not a threat. Elite bosses are not a threat. AV's can be a threat, but stalkers are no better at slaughtering them than other AT's, while retaining our intrinsic handicap against multiple foes.

In short, we are superfluous. Our existence is meaningless. Single target assault is not necessary in this game, and it's not like we do it very well anyway. Throughout this rant, I have implied that I do not agree that it is stalkers themselves who are broken. Rather, the game is broken. It is not built to accommodate our AT. Even if we were to turn AS into a power which instantly killed bosses at level fifty, it would be pointless. Fun, but pointless. Bosses are not capable of inflicting enough harm, and they die too quickly already even if they did inflict enough harm.

The only way to 'fix' stalkers is to 'fix' the game. Make single target annihilation more necessary in regular game content. Buff the everloving hell out of bosses. Make it so that bosses are your worst nightmare in-game. Make bosses so frighteningly difficult and sturdy that they cannot be solo'd by anyone - except stalkers - without inspiration use and decent builds. THEN turn stalkers into the AT that can rip the guts out of any single thing (sans AV's/elite bosses) in five seconds or less, but be comparatively helpless against a seething mass of minions. Then and only then will stalkers have a place in-game. Then and only then will they finally be 'fixed'.

But as we all know, that will never happen, and stalkers will have to be content with ... tweaks. Settle for them at your own peril.

Welcome back, AC. How's school going?

The basic problem is that DAMAGE IS KING, and AoE wears the Crown.

There are only but so many things which could be done about the situation globally to the entire game ... all of which would break out the Fire/Fire/Fire/ZOMGFIRE! Brutes and Pitchfork Titan Weapon Scrappers (ie. YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED!).

The simplest, most obvious, and probably all around easiest thing to do would be to modify the Enhancement Schedule used for PBAoE/Cone/Target AoE powers. That way, you wind up with a situation where Single Target Damage Enhancements are Schedule A (33% enhancement SO) ... and AoE Damage Enhancements are Schedule B (20% enhancement SO). Yes, this would mean a Global AoE Damage Nerf throughout the game, so as to priviledge single target damage at the expense of AoE damage in each and every single part of the game.

Implementing something like this would require "bifurcating" each and every single Damage Enhancement already slotted into powers in every single character in the game into 1 of 2 categories based on the type of power it is slotted into. It would essentially require creating a second "type" of Damage Enhancement (the Schedule B type) and then using a Servers Down For Maintenance pass to download the character database(s), run the script to update everyone's characters, and then reload them all back onto the servers. In other words ... a rather NON-TRIVIAL programming task when it comes to execution, even if the parameters of "what needs to happen" are easy to explain so as to get the point across.



Mind you, I'm not by any means ADVOCATING for this to happen in a Bill Murray-esque "I love this plan! I wanna be a part of it! Let's do it!" sort of way. However ... given the nature of the problem of how AoE Damage "trumps" Single Target Damage so readily in the game at present, it does seem that something like this might be one option for how to modify the game in a global way to achieve the ends of rebalancing the disparity between Single Target and AoE Damage in the game we're playing today.

It's the end. But the moment has been prepared for ...

Well, I've already settled with the idea of the attack vector, AoE or ST, should be fundamentally determined by the set, not the AT. That isn't to say that Stalkers will be even on AoE or that their ability to use AS (before or mid combat) doesn't imply that ST is the main appeal of the AT. I'm simply saying that Stalkers can do AoE dmg and some Brutes/Scrappers can do anemic AoE dmg.

That ST dmg isn't valued or that AoE is overvalued shouldn't be the subject of your bile but the equality of the capabilities of each AT as a whole should be balanced. The game is what it is and has been, there's really no changing that and you're shortsighted if you're only now coming to terms with this.

If anything, you should probably be angry that the 'stealth AT' theme has held back anything to help Stalkers for so long only to be thrown aside so far after the AT was released. It still does piss me off that sets like Titan Weapons is said to not be thematic, Shield Defense was stated to not be mechanically functional for them...and then the devs release an update that basically allows *any* Stalker to toss away Placate, Hide, needing BU and suchandsoforth and simply be Scrappers with an angle for ST crits.

Either the devs could have tossed away that theme limitation (like they're basically going to do) a long time ago so I could be Shield Charging with my Stalkers or they could cut the damned double standards and *GIVE THIS STUFF TO ME NOW!!*. But they aren't. They're holding onto that 'stealth AT' theme while shoving an update that says "shove that stealth crap and SCRAP" and I still get told to just ST*U and accept my buff like a good little wolfie...

Well, the other option besides those is add some cool functionality that enforces the whole 'stealth AT' schtick like the old scaling AS deal or hell, even my modified 'Ambush AS' idea that just spins their proposed change....But lol again I'm told to just shut my mouth. So what the hell, bring on the Strappalker goodness.

How's that for a rant, eh AC?

Dunno who's idea this new Assassin's Focus was based on but maybe we should meet him in a dark alley. I'll get my knuckle dusters and my rope. I'd try to sneak up on him but it'd be faster not to hide...

This is one of the few famous games that allow multiple buffs/debuffs stack. I agree that they should stack but maybe they should have more limitations/restrictions so the ATs that don't have good buffs/debuffs (like Stalkers who are not particularly good at tanking) don't feel like they are not adding much to the team.

Bosses can still be a threat. You just need to turn up the slider. Bosses only seem like weak-sauce once you have tons of set bonuses. A regular +3 or +4 boss can still kill certain squishy in one hit, which includes Stalker. It is not uncommon that a +3 Freakshow tanker boss kills a defense-based Stalker in one hit.


At least we can all agree that Assassin Strike needs help. This attack replaces many precious pbaoe attacks in the sets but its usefulness greatly reduces after you have strong attacks, faster recharge and now in many incarnate trials there are auto damage that will get you out of hidden frequently (IE: TNP!!!).

Stalker is known for his burst damage. The buffs will allow Stalker to have access to that burst damage more often than before. Since they refuse to increase Build Up's effectiveness (either by making it 100% or shortening its recharge), Assassin Focus mechanics will allow Stalker to have a good burst damage once every 15s or less. This makes Stalker both the King of ST DPS and the King of Melee Burst Damage. Unlike some of you, I think ST damage still has its place in this game because if you are on a large team with abundance of aoe, you don't need to throw another aoe to overkill.

This game is constantly changing so the way they need to buff Stalkers need to change too. I don't remember if there's incarnate trials when Castle was still here but I honestly feel Assassin Strike serves almost no purpose in level-50 content itrials. In fact, I find it hard to use in BAF (those burning patches), TNP (constantly auto damage around Telepaths), Lamba (where the boss super jumps with many mobs around him), Apex (blue flame surrounds the AV), Keyes (the final AV flies and constants moves away with high damage nuke).



One thing they should add is giving -Maxhp debuff in Assassin Strike using from hidden so it makes using Placate + AS more attractive. Not that I'll use that often but at least it's more attractive if it has good -Maxhp debuff. Tanker has Brusing and Stalker has -Maxhp debuff.


You are right that it is the same that makes this whole Stalker AT less important. From the get go, they should have only allowed Stalker to have access to Stealth.

Should they make Bosses harder? Maybe. It will have a global effect that has a negative impact on new players who are not familiar with this game.

I just keep wishing that the Signature (why isn't this Inherent?!?) Power ... Hide ... was more relevant during the 99% of the game that is Combat. Hide is useful for avoiding combat, but pretty much irrelevant once combat is joined (and you're scrapping it out). In this context, Placate (as a power) is just a Pseudo-Hide weighed down with KNOWN ISSUES that have existed for about as long as the AT has been playable.

It's the end. But the moment has been prepared for ...

Why is a single target set like Beam Rifle so popular? Because it is good at single target damage.

The upcoming Stalker changes are welcomed from my view. If I wanted another AoE melee AT I would roll up a scrapper/brute.

Not to be negative but..I will. Maybe YOUR stalker is useless, maybe it doesnt work in teams, maybe you hate having no AoEs.
Really..if you have SUCH a problem with the AT, WHY the hell are you playing one? Go play something else and let the people who enjoy stalkers..enjoy stalkers.
I like the sounds of the coming stalker tweaks, they might do really well. If not, I wont care a bit, since I think stalkers work fine.

I wish it were the case that -maxhp or -res would do anything to help stalkers, but put simply, it just wouldn't matter. Why would anyone need the help of a stalker to provide, say, a 20% -res on a single target when an ice/rad corruptor can lay down similar levels to a whole field of critters, while providing equally large single target damage, while possessing some manner of large-scale AoE damage? This ignores buffs, by the way.

Other AT's do it as well as we do, and even if we did it better, why would it matter? What possible use is high single target damage in the vast majority of encounters?

*Covers her stalker's ears* No! No it can't be true! I disbelieve!


In all seriousness, maybe I'm coming in when stalkers had already been "nerfed" as I've seen a few people say, but I personally really like my two stalkers. Granted they're a lot slower to level than say, my scrapper or my blaster, but I enjoy also being able to delve into my sadistic side from time to time and hide out while people die because they went "Let's go this way! Ignore the stalker who already knows where to go!"

EDIT: I took down a Zeus Titan alone today on my lvl 22 stalker (SJ/WP) *happy clap*

Oddly enough, the Devs may have heard some of our cries. While I've not run it yet, I've seen guides for the TPN Incarnate trial, where you need to do ST damage only, in order to not kill neutral civilians in the area. A nifty wrinkle...

I would suggest a much simpler solution for Stalkers though. a damage scalar on Assasin's Strike. just the full one in hide. Have it scale to the Enemy. So a fully buffed AS could level an Boss, any Boss, easily. A buffed AS could leave any EB wobbling and clean some of them. And a buffed AS could actually make a gnarly tick on an AVs health bar. Oh, and add a danged stun to the AS for these hard targets. Cause it should be very surpising to almost get assassinated. Even with purple triangles up. There, then Stalkers would get some respect. And it could be done with a few hours coding, not changing the whole game.

I have rolled all of two Stalkers in my seven years here.

The first was my initial villain Revenge on Champion, a Nin/Nin Stalker that I paired wth another Nin/Nin. We had lots of fun with them but he's been permashelved.

I made a Kinetic/Melee Regen recently for a duel ladder and it did "ok" but landing AS was tedious so it ended up being Sharks and Concentrated Strike from Hide most of the time.

That aside, for all the good it did to have increased crits, I just lagged behind others in anything but boss and Elite Boss or Archvillain fights. There, I could do a hefty amout of damage to targets but against most content it was just "Fireball, Psychic Shockwave, Ion Judgment, next spawn" so I'd have to just take what I could get.

Oddly enough, a RL friend finally joined CoH and rolled...a Stalker as his first AT. He doesn't know anything about the game and is having lots of fun so I rolled an Illusion/Forcefield to help him out, ideally I can set up AS with Blind and such and give him some buffs with the shields. Stalkers are fun but I just roll a Scrapper or Brute when I want to go wild on melee.