Guns for non-squishies?

This is something which has bothered me for a very, very long time. When it comes to making a cool character, I typically have two requirements - toughness of some kind and guns of some kind. But let's face it - this game doesn't really have that. The only generic ATs that have access to any sort of gun are pretty much purpose-designed to be squishies. I guess Soldiers of Arachnos come somewhat close, but they're a fairly specific AT, as far as I know they only have access to Arachnos weapons, and they don't have access to pistols.

So, here's something of thought experiment: Is it even possible to come up with a concept of a character that could work in this game who wields a gun of any kind whatsoever (pistol, rifle, shotgun, whatever), yet isn't tied to Arachnos and isn't designed to be weak defensively? What might that look like? How might it happen? Would just putting guns in the Epics of non-squishy ATs work, or would we need more?

This is a serious question, as well. I'm not trying to complain or criticise. Yes, I know that MELEE characters have been denied Dual Pistols. I'm just trying to see if anything's at least theoretically possible.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

That would be nice. I've had to settle for crafting revolver so far so my noir sj/martialarts/ss noir detectives can have one.

I'm having trouble thinking of how it would work for a melee, though, sine guns are by nature ranged.

I want a Marial Arts/Dual Pistols/Dual Blades/Grenades/SR/Regen, oooo Deadpool clone!

I could at least see a Pistols APP hypothetically being added for melee types, but that's about it. Personally, I still think the old point-blank pistol Scrapper idea isn't a bad one, though I know the Devs don't really have that as part of their own vision.

It's simple: New power pools or maybe even new APPs. (actual names and powers may vary but this is a rough idea)

Machine Gun power pool:
-Burst
-Pummel
-Heavy burst
-Suppression fire (cone with slow and -tohit)

Rifle Power Pool:
-Single Shot
-Bayonet
-Sniper rifle
-Armor Piercing Round (-res/-def)

Side Arm Pool:
-Pistol
-Pistol Whip (chance for stun)
-Double Tap
-Executioner's Shot

Pistols Akimbo Pool:
-Pistols
-Point Blank Double Shot
-Dual Wield
-Empty Clips

Shotgun Pool:
-Buckshot
-Bird Shot
-Taser Slug
-12 gauge

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow City of Heroes is a game about freedom of expression and variety of experiences far more so than it is about representing any one theme, topic or genre.

I'm not necessarily talking about melee characters with ranged firearms, thought. That's one way to go about it, but it can't be the only one. I mean, shooter games are ostensibly about people with guns, yet not all of them feature protagonists who are fragile up close. Warhammer 40 000 is a bit too easy of an example, so let's go with the Serious Sam games. Hell, most shoots I've played feature shotguns as extreme close range weapons. Left 4 Dead 2 - a pretty classic shooter based off Counter-Strike (seriously) features melee weapons, and even a gas chainsaw.

I don't specifically want melee characters with a ranged powerset. I do want melee characters with a ranged Epic, but it doesn't have to be that, either. Maybe there's some kind of balance which can be achieved where a character is allowed to have weapons, yet not tied into constantly backward-running away from enemies. I know the simplest solution is to just make a ranger with self-protection, but people insist that would be broken.

One solution which occasionally comes up is an Assault/Defence AT, and while that works for abstract power themes like fire, energy and ice, it doesn't work quite as readily with guns. Assault sets assume a mix of melee and ranged attacks, but what do you mix, say, a rifle with. Soldiers of Arachnos do it by means of a bayonet, I believe, but just sticking a sword at the end of every rifle in the game would be goofy. But what do you pair it with in terms of melee, then? Pistols/Martial Arts is an easy call (even if I'd want Pistols/Sword, myself), but what does Rifle go with? Boxing? Knife? Some kind of energy? I don't know.

Really, it just bugs me that we have such cool firearms to use, but I can't use them because I have a crippling fear of challenging gameplay that doesn't pander to my ego.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

I kind of wish the Assault powersets were brought out to more ATs. Dominators have them but the unobservant wouldn't notice that the Assault set contains both melee and ranged attacks.

If there were ways to give Assault sets to other ATs and balance them appropriately, you could technically have characters who have pri/sec melee attacks if they're usually ranged. And also ranged attacks if they're normally melee.

Who knows? I'd like to see gun sets with martial-arts gun-fu mixed in with them.

A Martial Arts/Ninjitsu-mix secondary for Blasters would help a little- it could have a defense power, possibly in exchange for giving up Build Up.

play a thugs MM in bodyguard mode, done

It's the classic tankmage. Difficult as all hell to balance yet still be interesting. Right now the tradeoff is that you have to deal with the Arachnos motif, which is a surprisingly effective throttle.

Another Blaster idea- have Defiance add Defense when using Melee powers, instead of damage.

I, too, have gone the route of crafting the revolver for use on thematically appropriate characters.

I would be willing to accept the compromise of having additional craftable powers (i.e. a shotgun, machine gun, etc.) which would be balanced by not being able to enhance them.

I do wish they would allow you to stack multiple copies of the same temp power instead of remaking it every 50 charges, but I'm sure there are technical limitations to it.

With the new free to play set-up, I'd be surprised if the devs weren't at least considering making a ranged/defence and/or a melee/support AT for sale on the paragon market.

You can currently tool up a melee character with conventional firearms pretty well.

Craft the Revolver and Hand/Stun Grenades.

Run the Freakshow mission that gives you the 75-shot Confiscated Beanbag rifle in Ouroborus (5 minutes tops).

Run the second Striga arc in Ouroborus to get the Holy Shotgun Shells (75 shot knockback and damage) in the second mission and then quit. (maybe 10 minutes?)

I've often thought of a gun/knife/martial arts Guerilla Combat set, usually for a Stalker since you often see Rambo sneaking up on his targets/victims unless he has his BFG, that and the Hitman series give a lot of inspiration.

Nerve Punch, minor lethal melee, chance to stun, chance to hold. A simple left/right hook towards where the average enemy's neck would be.
Trip, moderate smashing melee, knockdown. You quickly go to one knee and sweep a leg infront of you.
Riposte, high lethal melee, +melee defense. knife one-two slash moving the weapon from hand-to-hand.
Assassin's Execution, Stalker's assassinate, lethal damage. A carefully thought out shot to the head of your melee target
Take Aim, damage and tohit buff of Aim but adding short range (that of Blaze) to Assassin's Execution.
Placate
Hip Shot, moderate lethal ranged. A quick shot from the hip with your sidearm
Furious Whirl, moderate smashing and lethal PBAoE, chance for knockdown, chance for lethal DoT. You quickly spin with a series of slashes, gun shots, kicks and backhands (complete with ghost effects?)
Brutal Strikes, extreme lethal melee DoT, foe knockup, chance for stun. A slash then uppercut with the knife to pop the enemy into the air, then two quick pot-shots while they're airborn, all in the space of under 2 seconds.