Kinetic Melee, by most accounts, is better on a Scrapper.
Under construction
For claws the attacks have a slightly higher base dmg with a slightly slower recharge, this is really good for a brute because even a slight increase in base dmg adds up.
Elec's big hitter (LR) is a pseudo pet, which means it has a dmg cap of 400% (300?) for all ATs this negates one of things brutes need in order to compete when it comes to damage, their higher cap. So scrappers get roughly 30 extra base dmg which means they are going to be able to do 100 or so more damage than a brute could ever do. If they can crit with LR, which im not sure they do or not, they come out ahead even more.
"I have ridden the mighty moon worm!"
-Al Gore
Fiery Aura is only good for farming, I'm cereal
@Caucasiafro
I'd say...
Brute likes Fiery Melee, Claws, Katana and Spines*.
Scrapper likes Super Strength*, Dark Melee, Kinetic Melee and Electrical Melee.
Brutes like damage-over-time additions more than Scrappers do, because fury works on these, while critical doesn't. They also like sets with good fast-hitting attacks for building fury, and they have fine numbers for Claws.
Scrappers like large damage buffs along the lines of Rage, Soul Drain and Power Siphon, and also enjoy pseudo-pet attacks like Lightning Rod.
*: These sets aren't available here... yet.
If we're going by the numbers Brutes damage can exceed Scrappers in almost every primary they share, the exception is Claws where damage is identical to Scrappers.
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=132894
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I agree with this, mostly because of the limited benefit damage buffs bring to a Brute with high amounts of Fury. Though, Super Strength certainly seems to be a powerhouse on Brutes. I shudder to think of the power it would have on a Scrapper.|
Originally Posted by Calhou
I'd say...
Brute likes Fiery Melee, Claws, Katana and Spines*. Scrapper likes Super Strength*, Dark Melee, Kinetic Melee and Electrical Melee. Brutes like damage-over-time additions more than Scrappers do, because fury works on these, while critical doesn't. They also like sets with good fast-hitting attacks for building fury, and they have fine numbers for Claws. Scrappers like large damage buffs along the lines of Rage, Soul Drain and Power Siphon, and also enjoy pseudo-pet attacks like Lightning Rod. *: These sets aren't available here... yet. |
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Originally Posted by ChaosAngelGeno
If we're going by the humbers Brutes damage can exceed Scrappers in almost every primary they share, the exception is Claws where damage is identical to Scrappers.
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=132894 |
IMO, there is wider gap to be examined in secondary sets than in primaries. Regeneration being an extreme example of one that is better on Scrappers.
@Rorn ---- Blue Baron ---- Guardian
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That thread is no longer valid after the brute fury changes. Brutes are still slightly ahead in claws and fire melee, but its really close.
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Originally Posted by ChaosAngelGeno
If we're going by the humbers Brutes damage can exceed Scrappers in almost every primary they share, the exception is Claws where damage is identical to Scrappers.
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=132894 |
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It's almost entirely a min/max question, and the responses are showing it. In a slight nudge to the conversation it is said that Kinetic Melee is better on Scrappers because of how the crit was changed for the top end power to reboot the power boost. Are you talking about stuff like that? Where because of the different power write up or how the power interacts with the archtype it makes a difference which archtype you choose? For instance I would assume Energy Melee is better on a Brute because it can absorb the self inflicted wound better. (Who wrote that set?)
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Originally Posted by Razia
than on a scrapper and vice versa?
I am in no way a min/max player, but I love both ATs and really like to understand the mechanics that are behind some powersets. I heard that claws is better on a Brute while elec melee is better on a Scrapper? How can you tell? Is there some information on this (I did not find anything specific using search)? Any help and insights on this would really be appreciated. |
Yeah thanks, I was especially talking about special powers like the one in Kinetic Melee or Lightning Rod. I did not even know that before I read about it (that it does more dmg on a scrapper).
Speaking of Secondaries.... in short: Defense sets for Scrappers and Resist Sets for Brutes?
Originally Posted by Megajoule
We're being invaded. Again. This time, instead of aliens, zombies, or eyeballs with teeth, it's the marching band.
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Wow, this opens a huge discussion. In short, it ain't that simple. I am horrid at this, but I'll give you a thumbnail of what I understand. |
Originally Posted by Razia
Speaking of Secondaries.... in short: Defense sets for Scrappers and Resist Sets for Brutes?
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Damage mitigation in CityofX comes in 3 flavors, Defense (not getting hit), Resist (ignoring some of what hits you ) and "I got better" (Healing). It is always best to have all 3.
softcapping Defense is the benchmark for survivability in most builds. You can almost never softcap to everything however, and seeking to softcaop can lead you into a weird looking build if youre not careful.
Resist is near impossible to cap, except for oddities like fire armor to fire damage. But more is always better, seeking more (throwing a ton of work into it) is usually bad, but putting a couple resist enhancers in your resist powers is rarely a bad idea.
Healing, this depends a lot on your secondary, possibly your epic, and maybe quite a bit on how much you I/o it.
Pure Defense sets either Scrapper or Brute are great, right up uintil you get hit. they have no resist, or little, and sometimes not enough healing. An alpha that gets thru is ugly time. However I hear that a full I/O Shield set is a joy to run.
The only pure resist set I can think of is Stone, Granite. I wont run it, dont know much about it, it may even have some def. I tend to run Invulnerability, and add as much Defense as I can to it. I have also run Willpower, softcapping a Will Tank once. It was a god, ran it for 3 months.
Pure heal sets, wow, I love the idea, have never ran one, and do not plan to. How do they live?
In my understanding Archtype is rarely important for secondaries, except at the extremes. Resist caps are lower for Scrappers, but that is rarelyt a problem. Health is higher for Brutes, especially the cap. So if you plan to stack Invul's Heal, (a lot) go Brute. But in general I believe most secondaries perform very much the same on either archtype, at least for survivability. For damage dealing (damage auras), it changes a lot.
Thought resist sets would be better on brutes because of the higher HP and because most of them have a dmg aura and this does benefit from fury?
Originally Posted by Megajoule
We're being invaded. Again. This time, instead of aliens, zombies, or eyeballs with teeth, it's the marching band.
Fire melee/Shield is the highest DPS build possible you can have on a brute.
http://www.virtueverse.net/wiki/Shadow_Mokadara
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There's that, and the fact that Brutes typically take more hits than Scrappers because they taunt everything. For that reason, pure defense sets are dangerous on a Brute because they usually don't have anything to turn that around. This means that SR is arguably better for Scrappers than it is for Brutes. Willpower, on the other hand, is technically better on Brutes than it is on Scrappers because of the higher base HP and the fact that it naturally provides layered protection.|
Originally Posted by Razia
Thought resist sets would be better on brutes because of the higher HP and because most of them have a dmg aura and this does benefit from fury?
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Fiery Aura is better on Brutes than it is on Scrappers as well because, again, Scrappers have lower HP and Fiery Aura has a damage aura that benefits from Fury.
@Rorn ---- Blue Baron ---- Guardian
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1) Those numbers are old, and do not reflect the post-fury nerf numbers.|
Originally Posted by ChaosAngelGeno
If we're going by the numbers Brutes damage can exceed Scrappers in almost every primary they share, the exception is Claws where damage is identical to Scrappers.
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=132894 |
2) Those numbers were based on 5% Criticals and not 10%.
3) Those numbers were a comparison of primaries in their purest form, adding things like +damage bonuses from IOs or musculature will change the results to better favor the Scrapper in many cases.
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Originally Posted by ShadowMoka
Fire melee/Shield is the highest DPS build possible you can have on a brute.
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FM/SD Does not do as much DPS and its also quite possible that FM/FA would also be better DPS than FM/SD.
To answer the OP, with the possible exception of FM almost all Primaries are better on Scrappers - if better means doing more damage.
Some like Claws might be dead even, some like Katana will see the Scrapper a tiny bit ahead, tiny enough that going Brute for the added mitigation could be a large advantage in comparison.
Generally any set with persistent +damage buffs will heavily favor the Scrapper (except Claws, which is a special case) so; Dual Blades, Kinetic Melee & Dark Melee.
If you can (and you should if you can) build for +damage bonuses or Musculature on a Scrapper - you will get a fairly large advantage over a Brute with the same primary.
Not sure where StJ falls into the picture, but the numbers on Spinning Strike & Crushing Uppercut for a Shield Scrapper with Musculature were so huge that I couldn't imagine going anything but Scrapper (which is what I did).
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I wasn't looking for top DPS, just for a clarification why some primaries are better on a bute than on a scrapper.
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Originally Posted by ShadowMoka
Fire melee/Shield is the highest DPS build possible you can have on a brute.
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Originally Posted by Megajoule
We're being invaded. Again. This time, instead of aliens, zombies, or eyeballs with teeth, it's the marching band.
Thanks for details all. As I said I am no min/max player, but reading that Lightning Rod does a good chunk more dmg on a scrapper made me thinking. Might reroll my lowbie elec brute.
Speaking of Stj... I wasn't able to tell if SD is changing the Stj Animations while in char creation. Do they change?
Originally Posted by Megajoule
We're being invaded. Again. This time, instead of aliens, zombies, or eyeballs with teeth, it's the marching band.
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No although they tend to look a lot cooler with a big *** shield leading the way.
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Originally Posted by Razia
Thanks for details all. As I said I am no min/max player, but reading that Lightning Rod does a good chunk more dmg on a scrapper made me thinking. Might reroll my lowbie elec brute.
Speaking of Stj... I wasn't able to tell if SD is changing the Stj Animations while in char creation. Do they change? |
"Theres a saying that perfectly describes reading a majority of your posts, "Like being bukkaked with stupid."" -Demonata on JMan
than on a scrapper and vice versa?
I am in no way a min/max player, but I love both ATs and really like to understand the mechanics that are behind some powersets. I heard that claws is better on a Brute while elec melee is better on a Scrapper? How can you tell? Is there some information on this (I did not find anything specific using search)?
Any help and insights on this would really be appreciated.
Originally Posted by Megajoule
We're being invaded. Again. This time, instead of aliens, zombies, or eyeballs with teeth, it's the marching band.