If everyone bids 10,000,000, they buy the recipe at 10,000,000.
Potentially there could be 50 people offering them for, I don't know, 5,100,000. If every bid over 5,100,000 is for a minimum of 10,000,000, then they will always be sold for 10,000,000.
The only way you really know what the minimum bid is is to bid creep in incriments of 1 until you succeed in purchasing the product. But most people can't even be bothered to bid creep in incriments of 1 million. (Me included, usually!)
my lil RWZ Challenge vid
A couple of previous threads on the subject:
wont sell
Market Bug?
Basically, someone is undercutting your minimum sell price. Because the highest bid goes to the lowest seller, as long as someone is putting up stuff for less than you, you won't sell yours.
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I forget which recipe it was, but there was one last month with about 50 for sale, over 30 bids, and average sale price for 4m in the last 5 showing only one day worth of data. I posted one ( had two from ticket rolls) for 1 inf and it sold for 300k. Then I posted the second for 800k and it sold in less than 20 minutes for 4m.|
Originally Posted by JakHammer
I have noticed this before on other items but recently it is realy bad. I have had a recipe listed at 9,000,000 for over a week. Every time I check that toon's listings I see that recipe sold 5 times that day at 10,000,000.
Now having bought and sold a boatload of stuff on real auction sites, that just makes NO sense. Every person that paid 10,000,000 was potentially gipped by 1,000,000. Who is to say that there are not 30 more people sitting at 9,000,000 just like me? This is apparently a high volumn recipe with some 200+ listed and well over 100 bids evey time I check. Is the Auction house WIA, or is this a bug? If WAI what is the screwball explanation of what seems to be a system that will guarantee artifically supported prices? Jak |
There were 30 people with lowball bids of below crafting price that will probably never fill. And 50 people with unknown prices. Someone could have gotten mine for just 1m, but most bidders were blindly following the last 5 and just bidding 4m because all the other prices were 4m.
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My own method for items I'm working that are priced around 10,000,000 +/-, I will usually list my inventory for 8,123,456. I do this purposely to undercut the 9 mil or 8.5 mil sellers, yet avoiding the 8 mil buyers. If someone figures out my sell price and I start to see my stuff going for 8.25 mil, I'll take a week off to see if the price will float back up. If not, I'll sell off the rest of my inventory and then give it some more time.
Note: I'm currently not working on anything that has 200 items for sale, so I don't know which one you're talking about. I usually avoid anything that has more than 80+ for sale because I feel that if someone comes in to dump, it will take a long time for the price to recover and I might get stuck with unsold inventory.
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As explained, it's working correctly and as intended. Now you know how the market works. Use this knowledge for good.
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Originally Posted by JakHammer
Is the Auction house WIA, or is this a bug?
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Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
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Or better yet use it for ebilness.
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Originally Posted by Ironblade
As explained, it's working correctly and as intended. Now you know how the market works. Use this knowledge for good.
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This may be your misunderstanding. The Auction House in this game is not like eBay. In this game:|
Originally Posted by JakHammer
Now having bought and sold a boatload of stuff on real auction sites, that just makes NO sense.
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Originally Posted by StarGeek
Because the highest bid goes to the lowest seller
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Teams are the number one killer of soloists.
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Right. All sales are instant sales, there is no time limit, and the first person to bid your asking price gets your item, as long as there are no cheaper ones.|
Originally Posted by SerialBeggar
This may be your misunderstanding. The Auction House in this game is not like eBay. In this game:
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In a way, this system pits sellers against sellers trying to underprice each other, instead of pitting buyers against buyers trying to outbid each other.
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The real problem you are seeing is that buyers are too lazy to try and pay a lower amount. For example a buyer could try to pay 5 million, fail, 7 million and fail and then say screw it and fork over 10 million. Because influence is so easy to come by people will not try to bid like that and instead fork over 10 million on the first attempt.|
Originally Posted by JakHammer
I have noticed this before on other items but recently it is realy bad. I have had a recipe listed at 9,000,000 for over a week. Every time I check that toon's listings I see that recipe sold 5 times that day at 10,000,000.
Now having bought and sold a boatload of stuff on real auction sites, that just makes NO sense. Every person that paid 10,000,000 was potentially gipped by 1,000,000. Who is to say that there are not 30 more people sitting at 9,000,000 just like me? This is apparently a high volumn recipe with some 200+ listed and well over 100 bids evey time I check. Is the Auction house WIA, or is this a bug? If WAI what is the screwball explanation of what seems to be a system that will guarantee artifically supported prices? Jak |
This lazy factor is then combined with the auction house's lowest seller to highest bidder arrangement. This means that if someone bids 10 million and you have 2 sellers one listing at 9 million with the other at 8,999,999 , the 9 million listing isnt going to sell, ever.
I can also about guarantee that if the IO you are trying to sell is a numina's, performance shifter or positrons blast, then I'm the guy undercutting you and you wont be able to beat my prices and profit at the same time.
I am an ebil markeeter and will steal your moneiz ...correction stole your moneiz. I support keeping the poor down because it is impossible to make moneiz in this game.
Ok, for some reason I forgot all my buyer knowledge when I flipped my mind to seller mode and looked at my listing. I forgot that when you bid 10 mil you are going to PAY 10 mil, period. A 10 mil bid is not a "Secret Maximum" bid, and the auction house is not really an Auction. If everyone is just auto bidding the last 5 price then it can stay exactly 10 mil indefinitely. Duh.
Every time a new 10 mil bid comes in, the system awards that 10 mil to the cheapest listing below 10 mil. If there are none below then the = to 10 mil listing sells. In the event of a tie on the listing price, it either breaks the tie randomly or gives it to the oldest listing, or uses some other method. As long as there are ANY listings below my 9 mil listing my recipe will Never sell.
Finally, does this also explain why some people gamble on listing stuff at 1. Does the system take the next bid in the bid queue that exceeds your listing and give it to you. So if, for example, you were to list the same item for 1, one at a time, ten times, you might see sales at 1000, 1 mil, 10 mil, 500K, 18000, 200, 2.5 mil etc. ?
Edit: I see above that some are referring to Highest offer to Cheapest lister as 'the rule' but since I do dump excess common salvage at 1 and often see patterns like 10, 1000, 100, 10 that does not seem correct. If that were the case the pattern should be 1000, 100, 10, 10 assuming those were the 4 hightest bids out there when I listed.
Have I correctly stated the functionality of the market house now?
If so I will have to totally rethink how I list stuff, but will lose a lot of frustration.
Jak
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No. If you repeatedly listed items for 1 inf when there were outstanding bids, you'd sell them in the order 10000000, 2500000, 1000000, 500000, 18000, 1000, 200.|
Originally Posted by JakHammer
Finally, does this also explain why some people gamble on listing stuff at 1. Does the system take the next bid in the bid queue that exceeds your listing and give it to you. So if, for example, you were to list the same item for 1, one at a time, ten times, you might see sales at 1000, 1 mil, 10 mil, 500K, 18000, 200, 2.5 mil etc. ?
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Originally Posted by JakHammer
Edit: I see above that some are referring to Highest offer to Cheapest lister as 'the rule' but since I do dump excess common salvage at 1 and often see patterns like 10, 1000, 100, 10 that does not seem correct. If that were the case the pattern should be 1000, 100, 10, 10 assuming those were the 4 highest bids out there when I listed.
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Also, there seems to be some lag in the system. When I was trading Silver back and forth with someone to help them get the WW sales badges (we were both buying stacks for 10 each, listing for 1), we noticed that several times WW would 'freeze'. We'd both have stacks of bids up and stacks of Silver for sale, but nothing moved for several seconds. Then sales would start transacting again.
However, if you tried listing the pieces of salvage one at a time, I predict that you'd see the sales go through according to the highest bid to lowest listing rule (allowing, of course, for any bids being placed between your sales).
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It's "random". And when I say 'random', I mean:|
Originally Posted by JakHammer
In the event of a tie on the listing price, it either breaks the tie randomly or gives it to the oldest listing, or uses some other method.
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- If you have completely controlled circumstances with no items initially for sale and a group of coordinated bidders to test the system, then it's not really random and you can reproduce the results.
- Under normal circumstances, with bids and sales going in constantly, it's EFFECTIVELY random.
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Oh! And here I was... well, everythin's goin' on for 1 inf from here on out.
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Thanks all.
I had two items in the limbo area I first described and relisted them last night at lower prices. This morning, both had sold at the kneejerk window price.
Now I just have to decide if I want to eat the lost listing fee and relist a 300 mil purple or be patient and hope the supply contracts till it is alone.
Very glad to get the advice here,
Jak
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Actually, it does report every single transaction. What you're describing happens if a single transaction moves several identical items at once.|
Originally Posted by Grouchybeast
Listing stacks sometimes leads to slightly odd results, as the market UI doesn't always seem to report transactions in the exact order they happened, and sometimes doesn't report every transaction at all. For example, I've regularly seen that I listed, say, three Alchemical Silvers, and all three sold for the same price, but only one 'sale' popped up in the list.
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For example, if you sell three pieces of Alchemical Silver to three different buyers, you will see three reports. But if somebody is looking to buy more than one piece of Alchemical Silver, and her bid is matched with your offer, all three pieces could be sold in a single transaction. Hence, you would only get one single report.
This way you can see whether your buyer was buying in bulk. For example, if you're flipping recipes and someone bought a whole stack of ten from you in a single transaction, your asking price almost certainly was too low.
10joy
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Interesting. I'd wondered if that was the case, but I'd never bothered to do the experiments to test it.
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Originally Posted by Tenjoy
Actually, it does report every single transaction. What you're describing happens if a single transaction moves several identical items at once
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Arc#314490: Zombie Ninja Pirates!
Defiant @Grouchybeast
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I make quite a bit of money on those IOs, and I doubt it's just you and me working them. In fact I doubt it's just you and me and twenty other people.
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Originally Posted by Lohenien
I can also about guarantee that if the IO you are trying to sell is a numina's, performance shifter or positrons blast, then I'm the guy undercutting you and you wont be able to beat my prices and profit at the same time.
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my lil RWZ Challenge vid
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I'm also slacking these days. When I feel energetic I'd be selling 20-30 of a given IO per day on up to 11 toons.
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Originally Posted by Organica
I make quite a bit of money on those IOs, and I doubt it's just you and me working them. In fact I doubt it's just you and me and twenty other people.
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I am an ebil markeeter and will steal your moneiz ...correction stole your moneiz. I support keeping the poor down because it is impossible to make moneiz in this game.
I have noticed this before on other items but recently it is realy bad. I have had a recipe listed at 9,000,000 for over a week. Every time I check that toon's listings I see that recipe sold 5 times that day at 10,000,000.
Now having bought and sold a boatload of stuff on real auction sites, that just makes NO sense. Every person that paid 10,000,000 was potentially gipped by 1,000,000. Who is to say that there are not 30 more people sitting at 9,000,000 just like me? This is apparently a high volumn recipe with some 200+ listed and well over 100 bids evey time I check. Is the Auction house WIA, or is this a bug? If WAI what is the screwball explanation of what seems to be a system that will guarantee artifically supported prices?
Jak