3 Basic Trial/TF Questions

I suggest you read the following thread:
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=266307

It gets related to this around post 15.

Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters

You do realize the scope of this conversation is working the BAF escapees, right? And you selectively omit the last sentence, which goes "As a rule, do not consider deviating from orders until you know exactly what and why things happen the way they do -- they're there for a reason."

I know you desperately want to be right, but I'm not advocating the wholesale disregard of the leader's instructions. I understand where you come from in the first response as you probably had not read further, but the rest of these really just cast you in a very self-righteous light as well as create the perception that you have little faith in people's decision-making ability. They also contribute nothing to the OP's original observation, which was about why some people deviate from the choke point instruction.

Its worth noting that clicking on the health bars in that window lets you target that enemy.

The thing is that the last sentence there is coming off as an excuse.

You could have fooled me. On the other hand if enough people think they know better, that leads to chaos and failures.

Stop right there. I read the full thread before responding in the first place. You should know that making assumptions will often backfire.

Your post came across with a condescending attitude and smiley appeared to make light of the fact that trials fail because people ignore instructions.

Given I was on a trial (Underground) last night where people were not following the leader's instructions, decided to rush ahead and stand still while only 3-4 players were guarding Des (who aggro'd on some critters in one of the hubs), I tend to have a somewhat jaundiced view of people's decision-making ability.

Some people deviate from any instruction because they think they know better than everyone else. There is really nothing more to it.

To address the original post:

Rikti Ship Raid Guide:
http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Rikti_Ship_Raid

Lambda Guide:
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=257398

How to tell AV's health:
There is an Info window with their health bars, you can click on the health bars to target the AVs if they are close to you, and the window has other important information like when the next ambush wave is arriving.

Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters

I do this regularly, although as you say only on phases and trials where I'm sure I know what I'm doing.

During the BAF prisoners phase, if I'm on my AoE toon with modest control, I'm always at a door, or camping the sidewalk just in front of a door (Force Bubble is fun against prisoner minions). And if I'm on a high single target damage toon, I'm always at choke points and chasing lieuts.

During the final BAF phase, I always switch to whoever has the highest hit points, even if the leader calls my team to concentrate on either Nightstar or Citadel.

But these are things that I'm certain will benefit the league. I can't think of any other time during a trial when I'm actively doing my own thing.

Speak for yourself, if the instructions are bad, I won't listen to them. I can tell you that I wouldn't be the cause of a failed trial.

For example, if the leader said to use chokepoints on a BAF and if I'm on my SS/Fire I won't listen to them. How isn't my reasoning sound if I can kill all of the prisoners at a door without any problems?

I have to share this post from Arcanaville that pretty much matches my attitude:

Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters

A blanket statement like that is ridiculous. Sometimes the reasoning can be perfectly sound. Not to mention, the leader can be stupid and/or incompetent.

Honestly, I tend to do that also, but there's a catch. If the leader wants to run the trial on chokepoints, and I think there's a pretty good chance the league is full of relatively new players and players like me then I'll stand on the choke point like a good little soldier. The reason is that there's two ways I can contribute to a failure, and I want no part of either. I can disobey the leader in a way that compromises the league's performance, which for me is virtually impossible. *Or* I can encourage *other* players to disobey the leader because hey, I am.

If I disobey, and I encourage other players to disobey, and that general chaos causes a failure, then I'm partially responsible. As would be any other player that contributed to that situation, regardless of their character's capabilities.


A *really* smart player would start on the chokepoint and watch carefully for leakers. If none appear, then its all good. If any appear, they would relocate to deal with them and then shift to the most problematic door without the other players noticing.

Here's my take. If any player, be they min/max, rp, casual, OCD, ADHD - whatever - if they cannot follow the leaders instructions, they need to make that known immediately after the instruction is given.

1> You have the basic gist of the raids. Ironblade's summary was excellent.

2 & 3> Trials can be a lot of fun or extremely frustrating. Some general advice,
I'd toss out before getting to the specifics of your post.

If you're NEW to a trial (ie. run it less than 10 times), do everyone in your league
a favor - Be quiet and follow the League/Team Leader's directions.

A league can generally recover from a marginal leader's mistakes easier than
they can from players who don't/won't listen or follow directions.

If you're Experienced with a particular Trial -- then lead it ... if you have the
star. If you don't have the star, then follow directions as well.

The difference is that your experience can greatly help a new (or iffy) leader
by making polite, well-timed tactical suggestions, or you can completely blow-up
a trial through annoying/unwanted interference - it's a fairly fine line.

I like to think of it like a military chain of command. You *want* experienced Captains
and Lt's adapting and adjusting to changing conditions by using their skills and savvy.

You *don't* want them telling the Generals (stars) how to do things. If you'd rather
BE a general than a captain, feel free to form your *own* trial - but while you're in
one, use your skills to be a good Captain and team player instead.


As for the specifics of Lambda and BAF:

2> In Lambda it is *really easy* to get turned around, separated from your team,
or even get lost in there. I've run dozens of them, and as a non map memorizer,
it still happens to me once in awhile.

Some tips I'll share:

* Start well - know which elevator to take for your task (nades or acids)

* Zoom out your map (the game irritatingly zooms it in while in the maze) and make
sure you can see your teammates on it.

* Target (or set as WP) your leader - they're usually someone who knows the maze.

* Realize that Leaders can be new too, or get killed, or likelier move quicker than
you can keep up. In those cases: Use your map and try to stay with as much of
your team as much as you can.

* If you're squishy: Stealth is your friend - embrace it. Aggro is your Doom -
avoid it.

* Target through the Brutes/Tanks/Melee toons and focus on the crates or acids
with ST attacks - taking out the mobs in the maze is not your goal. It also
wastes time, and will usually get ppl killed needlessly.

* If you're NOT squishy - be mindful that newbies and squishies are counting
on you to help them thru there - sure, you may be able to solo it on your uber
build, but remember - most folks can't and are happy just to live through it

* When the maze is done, CHECK your temp powers - they're important. If you
don't know how to use them ask your team who you should give them to...

Those ideas should help you get through the maze and hopefully have even
more fun with Lambda - it's a pretty cool trial (imho).

3> In BAF, both Chokepoints and Doors can be effective strategies either separately,
or in combination. In my experience, chokepoints seems to work more reliably,
particularly with new or inexperienced trial runners (A lot of players seem to *think*
they can lock down a door, but more often than not, they can't). For instance
none of my Brutes or Blasters can do it, so I stick to the path or backing up
a door with those toons...

Even so, I've been on a team of 24 that failed due to escapes (if 20 escape,
you're done), and a team of 13 that stopped them all -- player build, skill, and
group co-ordination are HUGE in this segment of a BAF.

In terms of keeping the AVs even in the end, you should see their health bars
on your screen. I, like others, am not the least bit shy in flipping between the
two targets to help balance it out.

Some players/teams simply do more DPS. So, when the Leader says: groupX = Siege,
groupY=Nightstar, that's a good start, but smart players will also adjust as needed
to help keep them even.

Also in BAF, watch the Red Rings. That's another way to fail the trial and get a
bunch of folks killed - Sequestering is bad, mkay?

Sorry for the long post, but I've found that the amount of fun/frustration I have
in a trial is often related to the attentiveness of the players and their willingness
to work together towards a common objective. Lapses can occur anywhere
in the chain from the leaders to the back-seat drivers to the clueless (or malicious).

Any of them can butcher a trial - but the awesome ones occur when folks pay
attention and do their role as best as they can.


Regards,
4

Rhetorical question: Do you often find yourself making up excuses for your opinions? I sure don't....

No fooling, really ( ' : I merely stated that my scrapper or blaster will not follow a choke order because they can solo/near-solo a door. There's no special reasons/knowledge about managing a door that the leader has -- you can do it or you can't. Again, scope.

This goes back to that whole "you want to be desperately right" thing I mentioned. I opted to conclude things with an "okay", but you decided to come back for more, going outside of scope to reference sequestering of all things. I explained the scope and then fed you an opportunity
to gracefully conclude by suggesting maybe you didn't read my follow up before posting (because that happens). Considering how you came back once, expecting an "oh I see the scope of what you're talking about now" concluding reply was a bit silly; clearly you didn't take that and came back for more with this reply. More amusing, even though I said none of the other trials were as forgiving as BAF, you then opt to refer to an Underground trial of all things. As much as you contribute a lot of positive things to forums (positive feedback), this over-inflated sense of self-importance in making yourself heard comes across as unnecessary crusading (critical feedback). / ':

I think that smiley has made me a victim of guilt by association in your mind. Really, try re-reading it again with fresh eyes assuming no condescension. It really can be read that way (as intended) -- it was straight-forward advice....follow the orders and don't deviate without understanding the consequences. It doesn't get plainer (or less condescending) than that. ( ' :

/facepalm Rhetorical question: if you're so jaded running trials with the masses, then why don't you organize a group of knwledgeable regulars and run closed leagues?

That's only 1 reason and it's the most jaded one. Some people are ignorant (no shame in that); some don't focus on the chat window; some don't want to be ordered around; some see opportunities that the leader doesn't see; some recognize that the leader isn't doing all that much leading.

Edit: If you'd like to discuss further, feel free to pm me -- otherwise, this no longer addresses the OP.