I freaking love these videos. Dark Armor sucks when having over 30+ lethal defense in a set that doesn't get anywhere near that with it's intended design, using the lowest endurance draining primary with mitigation built in and using no SOs at all for the freebies.
...kind of like that silly tanking video, which never shows how awesome dark armor is with capped defense, right?
groan
Look guys, I feel your pain. I probably feel it more, as my first 50 villain was a stone/dark brute. Can you imagine that on SOs before the epics came over?
He has zero end issues now of course, with IOs up the wazoo and incarnate abilities, but that should never be the standard for which we place judgement.
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This part if factually incorrect, but it's a common misconception. Claws does have less endurance costs per power, but don't forget that the recharge rates are likewise reduced. You would end up burning the same endurance per second as normal, except that with more fast AoEs, it works out to more endurance costs than any other set.|
Originally Posted by JayboH
using the lowest endurance draining primary
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Can't really disagree with anything else you said, of course.
I'm not saying Dark Armor is awesome. I'm just saying that if it can do this, it clearly can't suck.
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Ok that's true, I think the intended design is for it to use less as a selling point, but I can tell you it's less than stone melee. |
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
This part if factually incorrect, but it's a common misconception. Claws does have less endurance costs per power, but don't forget that the recharge rates are likewise reduced. You would end up burning the same endurance per second as normal, except that with more fast AoEs, it works out to more endurance costs than any other set.
Can't really disagree with anything else you said, of course. I'm not saying Dark Armor is awesome. I'm just saying that if it can do this, it clearly can't suck. |
I have a vastly different and more common build using all toggles, except for the darkness cloak - I prefer Combat Jumping for immob. I haven't tried fighting council at this level yet but I will give it a go. Stone has TONS of mitigation, almost a ridiculous amount, but dark is so squishy and I have so little defense.
It's a little unfortunate that Spectral Interface doesn't grant the -tohit that most negative attacks have tied to it. The dark set also sucks on iTrials since the mitigation powers that are used as the reason the resists are so low do almost nothing to any enemies.
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Again, Dark is not squishy. Take away the IOs, take away the Claws mitigation, and go back to Arcanaville's spreadsheets. Dark pulls ahead of many of the other sets in almost every quantifiable way.|
Originally Posted by JayboH
but dark is so squishy
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How can you call it squishy?
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Quote:
Well, ok, let's take my character, not built for defense whatsoever, who runs all toggles and Tough, and put him in a similar scenario, using a +4/x8 Council mission with and without tier 3 barrier core, and naturally I am 50+1:|
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
Again, Dark is not squishy. Take away the IOs, take away the Claws mitigation, and go back to Arcanaville's spreadsheets. Dark pulls ahead of many of the other sets in almost every quantifiable way.
How can you call it squishy? |
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YeN7xIXjbsM
Now I don't currently have a mids build for him, no purple sets, and he uses tier 4 spectral radial and tier 4 vigor radial, but here is a shot of what I threw in the character, with my initial goals of killing any kb and especially any end issues since the combo is an endurance nightmare as anyone would guess: http://goo.gl/VAHq2 Health has 3 vanilla healing IOs. I love damage procs on most toons I make as you can probably tell. He has a good way to go when it comes to incarnate powers and I have nothing expensive in him so far.
I just can't do it. Even with all the mounds of mitigation in stone, with this build it's not possible. With SOs it would be far worse, and using SO builds should be the standard in which we compare mitigation strength. My wife's DB/WP scrapper can do it though without much problem, and doesn't have any defense outside of Heightened Senses, but she also uses Tough and has purple sets in a couple of attacks. If I built for more recharge perhaps I could hit dark regen more often but still, is that the goal? (get pounded really hard constantly with these settings but spam the huge end hungry heal?)
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Quote:
I couldn't stop laughing after you mentioned +4/x8...
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Originally Posted by JayboH
Well, ok, let's take my character, not built for defense whatsoever, who runs all toggles and Tough, and put him in a similar scenario, using a +4/x8 Council mission with and without tier 3 barrier core, and naturally I am 50+1:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YeN7xIXjbsM Now I don't currently have a mids build for him, no purple sets, and he uses tier 4 spectral radial and tier 4 vigor radial, but here is a shot of what I threw in the character, with my initial goals of killing any kb and especially any end issues since the combo is an endurance nightmare as anyone would guess: http://goo.gl/VAHq2 Health has 3 vanilla healing IOs. I love damage procs on most toons I make as you can probably tell. He has a good way to go when it comes to incarnate powers and I have nothing expensive in him so far. I just can't do it. Even with all the mounds of mitigation in stone, with this build it's not possible. With SOs it would be far worse, and using SO builds should be the standard in which we compare mitigation strength. My wife's DB/WP scrapper can do it though without much problem, and doesn't have any defense outside of Heightened Senses, but she also uses Tough and has purple sets in a couple of attacks. If I built for more recharge perhaps I could hit dark regen more often but still, is that the goal? (get pounded really hard constantly with these settings but spam the huge end hungry heal?) |
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Originally Posted by PapaSlade
Rangle's right....this is fun.
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Because math is not as important to people as how they truthily think.
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Isn't that what he was doing in his video? I'm not sure I understand your comment since that was the entire point, especially if you read about my wife's toon.|
Originally Posted by Rangle M. Down
I couldn't stop laughing after you mentioned +4/x8...
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The argument for the OP has always been about dark armor, but we can take any character in the entire game with any combo, give it high levels of defense using IO bonuses and pool powers, and show the same performance.
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When you said "Whoops, let me try that again", I was really hoping you were going to hit Soul Transfer. :P
's doesn't make things plural.
JayboH - I think you're not playing to your strengths. Look back to your first death ; a few seconds before, you broke away from the crowd to go fight a single minion. That means all the mobs that were under OG/CoF suddenly weren't. You also had a good 4-5 seconds to use DR, and instead you went and locked yourself in Tremor's long animation.
I know it's not always easy to have proper timing, and much like Regen, Dark Armor is much more reliant on everything going just right than other powersets, but I think there's room for improvement there.
You also keep CoD off, which I guess is to make a point about DA without defense? Regardless, CoD is a part of the powerset, and ignoring it doesn't make more sense than it would to play, say, Willpower without Fast Healing.
You also had CJ toggled off, no defense toggles, no Hasten. Bit of a stretch to want to take on the hardest difficulty while ignoring most of the powerful mechanics in the game, if you ask me. This would make a good point against the over prevalence of defense and recharge in this game rather than against Dark Armor. Frankly, considering the limitations you set for yourself I don't think you're doing all that bad.
Hey, stuff dies in this video!
In all seriousness, gj on another solid video. I do think in some ways it's preaching to the choir though. Most people on the forums already know DA is good on SOs alone. With IOs, it can be incredible. If someone still maintains that DA is the worstest and can't do anything right, it's unlikely any video or guide is going to change their minds.
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This thread alone indicates that actually, no, most people on the forums don't appreciate the greatness of DA.
I don't like DA. I suppose it is thematic, but I will not argue that is can be quite powerful. I may have missed it but why did you go claws over DM? If I recall correctly, your tanker was DA/DM.
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Quote:
You don't. Soulburn Sands was DA/Fire, and his subsequent reroll is DA/MA. |
Originally Posted by Grae Knight
I don't like DA. I suppose it is thematic, but I will not argue that is can be quite powerful. I may have missed it but why did you go claws over DM? If I recall correctly, your tanker was DA/DM.
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Why not claws?
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No reason, I thought his last video was DA/DM but I guess I was incorrect.
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Originally Posted by Talen Lee
You don't. Soulburn Sands was DA/Fire, and his subsequent reroll is DA/MA.
Why not claws? |
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Quote:
You're missing something important here, and that's "Soloing on +4/x8 is not intended at all." If you don't have a well slotted IO build, you're not going to be able to do the same things as I have in my video.|
Originally Posted by JayboH
Well, ok, let's take my character, not built for defense whatsoever, who runs all toggles and Tough, and put him in a similar scenario, using a +4/x8 Council mission with and without tier 3 barrier core, and naturally I am 50+1:
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Nothing you have said or your video shows that Dark Armor is squishy. It just shows that Dark Armor, when poorly built and played (thanks Nihilii for saying just about everything I would have), cannot stand up to +4/x8 Council.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by JayboH
The argument for the OP has always been about dark armor, but we can take any character in the entire game with any combo, give it high levels of defense using IO bonuses and pool powers, and show the same performance.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Bonnes
When you said "Whoops, let me try that again", I was really hoping you were going to hit Soul Transfer. :P
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Silas
Hey, stuff dies in this video!
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Grae Knight
I may have missed it but why did you go claws over DM?
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Why did I not choose DM?
Because I find that it's a terrible pairing for Dark Armor. I don't need Siphon Life when I have Dark Regen. Personally, I do not like relying on -tohit because it can be resisted. I've always built well enough to not need the endurance recovery tool.
Why did I choose Claws?
Because I wanted the character to be a swirling mass of sand, blood, and blades.
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Quote:
Thats exactly what I was thinking.
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Originally Posted by Bonnes
When you said "Whoops, let me try that again", I was really hoping you were going to hit Soul Transfer. :P
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I have a stone/elec, and I cant stand how slow stone animates tremor or whatever the pbaoe damage. Conversely I have a dark/elec tank, and while I love the dark part, I cant stand how slow the elec attacks are. Or how crappy their damage is. :| Id like something like TW/DA for a brute or scrapper. That would be cool.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by JayboH
Isn't that what he was doing in his video? I'm not sure I understand your comment since that was the entire point, especially if you read about my wife's toon.
The argument for the OP has always been about dark armor, but we can take any character in the entire game with any combo, give it high levels of defense using IO bonuses and pool powers, and show the same performance. |
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
You're missing something important here, and that's "Soloing on +4/x8 is not intended at all." If you don't have a well slotted IO build, you're not going to be able to do the same things as I have in my video.
Nothing you have said or your video shows that Dark Armor is squishy. It just shows that Dark Armor, when poorly built and played (thanks Nihilii for saying just about everything I would have), cannot stand up to +4/x8 Council. |
Throwing darts at the board to see if something sticks.....
Come show your resolve and fight my brute!
Tanks: Gauntlet, the streak breaker and you!
Quote:
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Originally Posted by PapaSlade
Rangle's right....this is fun.
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Quote:
Agreed|
Originally Posted by DreadShinobi
Quote:
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Also, u died hehe :P
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Quote:
Well, it would be helpful to compare your build and your wife's build, to see if they really are comparable in expense and efficiency. For example, your posted build isn't optimal in a few areas. Without increasing the cost of the build much or at all, Dark Regeneration can be slotted a lot better for someone that intends to attempt x8 soloing. Rather than slot with in accuracy IO and a set of Touch of Nictus (minus the proc I assume), which *heavily* overslots for heal, I would frankenslot DR with one accuracy IO, one end/rech IO from Numina's, an acc/end/rech from ToN and ToE, and heal/end/rech from Doctored Wounds and Miracle (all cheap).|
Originally Posted by JayboH
Well, ok, let's take my character, not built for defense whatsoever, who runs all toggles and Tough, and put him in a similar scenario, using a +4/x8 Council mission with and without tier 3 barrier core, and naturally I am 50+1:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YeN7xIXjbsM Now I don't currently have a mids build for him, no purple sets, and he uses tier 4 spectral radial and tier 4 vigor radial, but here is a shot of what I threw in the character, with my initial goals of killing any kb and especially any end issues since the combo is an endurance nightmare as anyone would guess: http://goo.gl/VAHq2 Health has 3 vanilla healing IOs. I love damage procs on most toons I make as you can probably tell. He has a good way to go when it comes to incarnate powers and I have nothing expensive in him so far. I just can't do it. Even with all the mounds of mitigation in stone, with this build it's not possible. With SOs it would be far worse, and using SO builds should be the standard in which we compare mitigation strength. My wife's DB/WP scrapper can do it though without much problem, and doesn't have any defense outside of Heightened Senses, but she also uses Tough and has purple sets in a couple of attacks. If I built for more recharge perhaps I could hit dark regen more often but still, is that the goal? (get pounded really hard constantly with these settings but spam the huge end hungry heal?) |
Your slotting ends up with Dark Regen having 68.9% accuracy, 83.32% end, 97.49% heal, and 47.7% recharge. Mine gets to 79.9% accuracy, and 95.84% end and recharge, and 40.5% heal.
That slotting is just as cheap, but far superior in almost every situation. The only thing its inferior to is heal strength: yours heals for about 61% per target, mine for 42% per target (separate from any other set IO buffs).
Because Dark Armor is a different kind of and less straight forward set, different players can experience vastly different performance. If you had just used my slotting instead of yours you definitely would have avoided that first death. Perhaps not the second, but that's just with one cost-neutral single power slotting change.
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Quote:
Gotta admit, that was my first thought too. I guess if that's my only complaint about the video, then Dechs was successful. |
Originally Posted by Bonnes
When you said "Whoops, let me try that again", I was really hoping you were going to hit Soul Transfer. :P
|
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